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ericgu22

TTC collectors after presto

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Do you guys think that TTC are going to lay off all the collectors when the presto is in place?? I think they still need someone at a station for customer service and other things....

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Do you guys think that TTC are going to lay off all the collectors when the presto is in place?? I think they still need someone at a station for customer service and other things....

Absolutely not.

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Do you guys think that TTC are going to lay off all the collectors when the presto is in place?? I think they still need someone at a station for customer service and other things....

Nope.

And the union probably would have been protesting long ago if that was the TTC's intent.

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there would still be collectors though, even most other cities with electronic fare systems still have collectors for customer service reasons...... i recall seeing collectors in the MBTA even though i used a vending machine to get my "charlie card"

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Do you guys think that TTC are going to lay off all the collectors when the presto is in place?? I think they still need someone at a station for customer service and other things....

Absolutely not.

Might need a collector to call for service if one of the machines breaks down, 'cuz chances are, they don't always read your card properly if at night they don't recognize it in the dark shadows.

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Even with PRESTO you'd still need someone if you wanted to have your card reset, pay with cash (either your fare or top up your card - assuming they don't replace the token machines with ones that will let you pay cash for PRESTO), want to purchase a day pass if you're a tourist (I don't know how tourist friendly this current version of PRESTO is) or simply ask a question. In most places that have a smart card of some sort there's always one person in a booth to handle these things. The only place where this wasn't the case was in LA, but then their subways are on the honour system. They do have staff roving the platforms if you do have any questions. Of course they're harder to find if it's busy or you don't know what to look for,

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Guest orionvi

I think they will remain, just not in their current role collecting cash fares. I think that they will function similar to what one would see in London: just operating the gate for oversized things (that I hate except for wheelchairs).

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I think they will remain, just not in their current role collecting cash fares. I think that they will function similar to what one would see in London: just operating the gate for oversized things (that I hate except for wheelchairs).

There's no reason why you can't have wheelchair-accessible automatic ticket gates.

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There's no reason why you can't have wheelchair-accessible automatic ticket gates.

They already do, in fact. At every single accessible station.

Dan

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I think they will remain, just not in their current role collecting cash fares. I think that they will function similar to what one would see in London: just operating the gate for oversized things (that I hate except for wheelchairs).

They already do, in fact. At every single accessible station.

Dan

Then what is Orionvi talking about with regard to collectors "operating the gate"?

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Then what is Orionvi talking about with regard to collectors "operating the gate"?

There is also a manual override for the gate. While it is opened with a Metropass or token, the collector can also open it if necessary.

Dan

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Then what is Orionvi talking about with regard to collectors "operating the gate"?

He might be thinking of the positioning of a collector/farebox by the crash gates during rush hours to accomodate the increase in passengers at some stations.

The wheelchair accessible gates are automatic/token/Metropass/etc operated, typically located in view of the collector booth (probably to make sure more than one person doesn't use it at once).

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Nope.

And the union probably would have been protesting long ago if that was the TTC's intent.

Protesting and actually being able to stop it are two different things.

No way, not in my lifetime at least.

I would'nt bet against it. Get with the times, it's 2012. If they need a presence in the stations that's what the Station manager program is for.

I think they will remain, just not in their current role collecting cash fares. I think that they will function similar to what one would see in London: just operating the gate for oversized things (that I hate except for wheelchairs).

Right, and that's real cost effective,... at 30 bucks an hour.

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Okay, so let me throw this back at you then...

What exactly do you see in Presto - that we haven't already had either in the form of tokens or Metropasses - that will allow the TTC to do away with the collectors exactly?

Dan

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All the duties of booth collectors can be fully replaced by computers nowadays. Not that I agree with it, but it's the way technology is evolving.

Need change? Install a change machine.

Need to buy tickets or tokens, install vending machines that accept debit/credit/cash.

Need to load your Presto card? Install Presto machines similar to the one at Union GO Stn.

The only useful aspect of having collectors is for safety and security, and I think an overwhelming majority of people will agree with me on this. For this reason, I don't think collectors should or will be sacked. But I would like to see their roles changed.

It'd be great if TTC got some machines to replace the monotonous duties of these collectors and have them reassigned as station managers. I would like to see them get out of their fare boxes and let them have pride in their jobs/take ownership of the stations they work in, rather than be stuffed in a glass box like a hamster for the entire day. Let the machines deal with the fares; have the station managers deal with the customers and general upkeep/appearance of stations. Make the stations their stations and their responsibilities. There's currently a general feeling when you walk into a TTC station that, although it does get a cleaning now and then, no one's really responsible for the station or watching it like a hawk for upkeep issues. (e.g. a broken sign could stay broken for weeks or months)

Whether they are collectors or station managers, they'll still be there to respond in the event of fare machine malfunctions or emergency situations.

I know this program already exists on a pilot basis, but I would like to see this expanded to include station collectors, rather than just managers. :)

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Guest orionvi

I mean putting the accessible gate right next to the booth and have the collector operate it manually with a key like in London.

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I use St. Patrick Station daily and my fare method is PRESTO. Many use Metropass and tokens. To reduce long delays three collectors are on duty at PM rush, two in the booth, one with a portable fare box. I can see after full PRESTO introduction there being a reduced need for the third collector. But the collectors make change, sell tokens and passes and day passes and answer questions about where to go. There are signs everywhere directing you to hospitals or streetscars or sides of the street or the AGO but hundreds need to ask. The collector's job is not going away anytime soon. Oh, St. Patrick also has two token machines. But still a collector is very busy.

The premise too is that you won't need a collector because EVERY fare will be by EXACT fare into a machine or PRESTO. Not happening anytime time soon. Sit on a GO coach and watch as the POP COP passes through checking tickets ... maybe 15-20% are PRESTO. People still like the 10-ride and the monthly. I ride with someone everyday that puts 70c in Mississauga farebox and uses a 10-ride OR a PRESTO to ride the GO and uses tokens to ride TTC subway. She just isn't "comfortable" yet with this new device called a fare card. It will take us a people a long time to adapt to this new way of doing business - how many of you have a Tim Horton's card to speed the line? btw I tested PRESTO pretty good yesterday and it charged me right every time. Full fare on Mississauga Transit, used fare over-ride to ride GO train from Meadowvale to Dixie, MT Dixie 5 north, then MT Dixie 5 south, then Dundas 1 east, then subway from Islington over a 4 hour twenty minute period. Fares were bang on.

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GO is getting rid of 2-rides and 10-rides this summer, and I know they plan on gettign rid monthly passes. The TTC will also get rid of tickets/tokens/metropasses once Presto is up and running. I imagine other systems will do likewise, so they either have cash or Presto.

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There is also a manual override for the gate. While it is opened with a Metropass or token, the collector can also open it if necessary.

Which is a very useful feature when you need to use the gate and only have cash or a ticket.

If they need a presence in the stations that's what the Station manager program is for.

Which is what the collectors will become in the aftermath of implementing Presto. This is what every other transit system has done when they have made the switch to an automated fare system.

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Which is what the collectors will become in the aftermath of implementing Presto. This is what every other transit system has done when they have made the switch to an automated fare system.

You keep assuming that. But Presto is not going to be used or adopted by everyone, and especially not for a $6 (or more) up-front charge just to get on board.

There will continue to be people who pay with cash, and there will continue to be a need to have someone manning that kiosk.

Dan

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There will continue to be people who pay with cash, and there will continue to be a need to have someone manning that kiosk.

Oh I know, and I know that people always prefer to deal with human beings rather than machines when it comes to financial transactions. However, Presto will reduce the average workload when it comes to fare transactions so that the job will shift from "manning that kiosk" to "manning that station in the kiosk"

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Oh I know, and I know that people always prefer to deal with human beings rather than machines when it comes to financial transactions. However, Presto will reduce the average workload when it comes to fare transactions so that the job will shift from "manning that kiosk" to "manning that station in the kiosk"

I'm not so certain. I don't think that we can assume that everyone that currently uses tokens will switch to Presto. And while you won't be able to simply flash your pass to the collector, you will see people - as you rightly pointed out - coming to them to refill their cards, which is currently not a task that they handle.

Dan

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i dont mind dealing with machines, i perfer self checkouts. however, im a verry casual transit user at best i use transit two-three times a month, so presto doesnt make sense for my needs, since i dont have a set route. (plus when i use TTC im going to places that doesnt have a presto machine at the other end so i cant tap out either nor tap in going back, maybe once TTC has full presto i might get a presto card, but for now ill use tokens.......

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I'm not so certain. I don't think that we can assume that everyone that currently uses tokens will switch to Presto.

(plus when i use TTC im going to places that doesnt have a presto machine at the other end so i cant tap out either nor tap in going back, maybe once TTC has full presto i might get a presto card, but for now ill use tokens.......

You are both assuming that once presto is fully rolled out that the TTC will still offer users the option of tokens. Other cities that have rolled out presto-like cards have often eliminated tickets or tokens in the process for various reasons:

-Security, tickets and tokens can be counterfeited with more ease than electronic card based systems

-Labour/Material handling, all tickets, tokens and cash have to be retrieved and trucked to the Patten building for processing

-Equipment, maintaining the TVMs, booth token dispensers in addition to new presto loading machines etc. does cost money

-Material costs, tickets are single use, tokens last longer but still need to be replaced

There is a good chance that you will have 2 options - full cash fare, or some sort of multi-ride reduced fare (ala buying multiples of tokens) with presto.

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