Winnipeg and Artic Buses

[tctf101]

So 980 is parked at the back of FRG once again with the bunch of artics waiting to get fixed, I guess it might be the time 

[Viafreak]

Curious as to if Transit will have the artics running when the Santa Claus parade is on. A few years back on the day of the parade, I was on Transit (RT 160) and asked about that. At the time, Brandon Garage wasn't open unfortunately and no artics were in FRG.

[Wpgtransit11-25]

1 minute ago, Viafreak said:

Curious as to if Transit will have the artics running when the Santa Claus parade is on. A few years back on the day of the parade, I was on Transit (RT 160) and asked about that. At the time, Brandon Garage wasn't open unfortunately and no artics were in FRG.

Probably will since the all nite 160s get artics all 3 of the Saturday nite 160s do 

[LilZebra]

Today I saw 988 on the 60 southbound in the PM.

[Wpgtransit11-25]

2 hours ago, LilZebra said:

Today I saw 988 on the 60 southbound in the PM.

There’s that and 979 out on the 60. And there’s 2 on the 160

[Wpgtransit11-25]

What is everyone’s thought of running the 60 with artics. In my opinion I think the 170 should have it on Sunday’s over the 60 as in there’s one run that ends around 6 I would put it on as it’s busy and could use little help. During week I would like to see if they can have some start in the Am at pembina and Killarney as 62 expresses to help with Am rush. But with the new buses coming to we have to judge what routes need them to like would it make sense to run buses like 21,22 with a artics the loops can handle them it’s just  that  some runs are different passenger loads based on if the 22 comes before 21 and vice versa 

[trebor204]

Bendy Bus almost split into 2

 

https://imgur.com/tCs5fFx

 

[GrandeWest_B35G]

19 hours ago, trebor204 said:

Bendy Bus almost split into 2

https://imgur.com/tCs5fFx

 

That looks more like a rip in the material than actually breaking

[jhood135]

I chatted with one of the civil engineers at the SWRT2 open house tonight, who told me that 90% of all future bus orders will be articulated buses. He also said new ones will be arriving around November/December 2019.

They also said that some have already been delivered and put into service - which I know isn't true - so this may not be fully accurate. Is anyone aware of any paperwork that supports this?

[DavidW]

I would be surprised (and very disappointed) if 90% of future bus orders were artics. The attraction of artics is they can provide more capacity with less frequency. Less frequency makes the transit service much, much worse for users, which lowers ridership which leads to service cuts which makes the transit service less useable which lowers ridership which leads to service cuts which...<infinity loop>

Seriously. We've been cutting frequency on main routes and neighbourhood feeder routes for at least the last 30 years and in spite of population growth ridership is still less that 30 years ago.

[Dane]

15 minutes ago, DavidW said:

I would be surprised (and very disappointed) if 90% of future bus orders were artics. The attraction of artics is they can provide more capacity with less frequency. Less frequency makes the transit service much, much worse for users, which lowers ridership which leads to service cuts which makes the transit service less useable which lowers ridership which leads to service cuts which...<infinity loop>

That does not need to be true, it could be just to raise capacity. Did Winnipeg use theirs to reduce schedules? That would be annoying & disappointing. 

[GrandeWest_B35G]

11 hours ago, jhood135 said:

I chatted with one of the civil engineers at the SWRT2 open house tonight, who told me that 90% of all future bus orders will be articulated buses. He also said new ones will be arriving around November/December 2019.

They also said that some have already been delivered and put into service - which I know isn't true - so this may not be fully accurate. Is anyone aware of any paperwork that supports this?

Probably talking about the D60LF's

[jhood135]

I don't see how adding more buses to the fleet would decrease frequency. It doesn't seem like they're taking buses out of the fleet. They're trying to add more buses to increase frequency, and make buses larger so capacity is also increased. Vancouver's B-Line system is extremely frequent, and all of those buses are articulated.

At the end of the day it's no different than ordering the 40' buses, just they have an additional 20' to them and can carry a few more people. Frequency will not be decreased as a result. Based on what transit is promising, frequency will actually be increased with these new buses.

[DavidW]

2 hours ago, jhood135 said:

At the end of the day it's no different than ordering the 40' buses, just they have an additional 20' to them and can carry a few more people. Frequency will not be decreased as a result. Based on what transit is promising, frequency will actually be increased with these new buses.

Unfortunately larger capacity vehicles is always (always always always) about frequency.  It's simple unavoidable arithmetic. Passengers per hour divided by passengers per vehicle equals vehicles per hour.  If a route has three buses per hour and there is overcrowding and pass-ups, there are only two ways to fix it. Either run bigger vehicles on the same frequency, or run higher frequency. Winnipeg Transit wants artics so they don't have to operate higher frequency.  That would be OK if bus routes in Winnipeg were already high frequency but there is only one year-round high frequency route (the 11 between downtown and Polo Park) and the rest of the system is low frequency all or some of the (non-peak) time. 

Winnipeggers can't even dream of service like a Vancouver B-Line.  Artics have a use. They're great capacity on routes that are already high frequency, but weekdays mid-day in Winnipeg (never mind weekends) they the wrong solution for capacity problems.

On 2/12/2019 at 12:16 AM, trebor204 said:

Bendy Bus almost split into 2

 

https://imgur.com/tCs5fFx

 

Does anyone know which unit this is?

It's hard to be sure from the picture but it looks like the bus is jacknifed.  Isn't that usually a life-ending accident for an artic? Given the age of these used buses it'll be interesting to see if it's worth repairing. 

[Taylorover9001]

On 2/13/2019 at 12:38 AM, DavidW said:

I would be surprised (and very disappointed) if 90% of future bus orders were artics. The attraction of artics is they can provide more capacity with less frequency. Less frequency makes the transit service much, much worse for users, which lowers ridership which leads to service cuts which makes the transit service less useable which lowers ridership which leads to service cuts which...<infinity loop>

Seriously. We've been cutting frequency on main routes and neighbourhood feeder routes for at least the last 30 years and in spite of population growth ridership is still less that 30 years ago.

Speaking of frequency, I really think they should increase frequency on the 84 and 86. One bus per hour is just not good enough.

[jhood135]

31 minutes ago, Taylorover9001 said:

Speaking of frequency, I really think they should increase frequency on the 84 and 86. One bus per hour is just not good enough.

I asked some of the transit planners about those two routes specifically at the RT open house. They're hoping to (but won't confirm if they will) bump the frequency to every 15 or 30 minutes. I think this is for every route in the South End that is currently an hour apart.

I think new artic's would work to achieve this. If they put the artic's on existing high-frequency routes (11, 160, 162) then all those 40' buses will be freed up to make the frequency higher for routes that don't come as often.

[Wpgtransit11-25]

24 minutes ago, jhood135 said:

I asked some of the transit planners about those two routes specifically at the RT open house. They're hoping to (but won't confirm if they will) bump the frequency to every 15 or 30 minutes. I think this is for every route in the South End that is currently an hour apart.

I think new artic's would work to achieve this. If they put the artic's on existing high-frequency routes (11, 160, 162) then all those 40' buses will be freed up to make the frequency higher for routes that don't come as often.

I asked my buddy out of BG if the new artics are there yet. Would u happen to kno what the new ones will be numbered or no 

[jhood135]

On 2/15/2019 at 6:18 PM, Wpgtransit11-25 said:

I asked my buddy out of BG if the new artics are there yet. Would u happen to kno what the new ones will be numbered or no 

I don't know what the numbers would be. They don't have many options, though. Would they consider dipping into the 1000's?

I also found this document on the City's Public Works site that lists on the second page the amount of new/replacement buses budgeted per year up until 2023. If these are to be artic's, there will be a lot entering the fleet over the next few years.

http://wpgopendata.blob.core.windows.net/capital-project-baseline-reports/4210000218.pdf

[DavidW]

 I've heard a rumour that the new articulateds (is it 27 units?) Will be numbered in the 300s. I would guess then maybe 370-396 or 371-397. I've also heard that deliveries of the artics might begin following immediately after the current order of XD40s, so as early as late March 2019. It's all unconfirmed, so no promises... but maybe soon?

 

[Wpgtransit11-25]

3 hours ago, DavidW said:

 I've heard a rumour that the new articulateds (is it 27 units?) Will be numbered in the 300s. I would guess then maybe 370-396 or 371-397. I've also heard that deliveries of the artics might begin following immediately after the current order of XD40s, so as early as late March 2019. It's all unconfirmed, so no promises... but maybe soon?

 

I saw on crew sheets that a 55 is getting a artic for spring it’s a 72 run 

[wt_enthusiast_photos]

3 hours ago, DavidW said:

 I've heard a rumour that the new articulateds (is it 27 units?) Will be numbered in the 300s. I would guess then maybe 370-396 or 371-397. I've also heard that deliveries of the artics might begin following immediately after the current order of XD40s, so as early as late March 2019. It's all unconfirmed, so no promises... but maybe soon?

 

I thought it was 28 buses 

[jhood135]

I can happily share with you guys this report from the Public Works Committee from September 2018 that confirms the delivery of 28 new artics starting in March 2019:

http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/ViewDoc.asp?DocId=17296&amp;SectionId=&amp;InitUrl

The funding was granted by the IRPW committee on Sep 7. From what I gather, this order came from remaining funding from the 2016 budget, meaning that the proposed money for new buses in 2019 could mean even more artic’s to come at the end of the year.

EDIT: The City of Winnipeg site doesn't seem to have functional link sharing, so I've attached the document below.

document.pdf

Edited March 4, 2019 by jhood135
Link not working

[armorand]

So if WT is getting more artics... should we expect new routes with the extra 40ft buses made available by being replaced with 60 foot artics? Or more frequency on other routes? Or just increased spare ratios?

[Wpgtransit11-25]

4 hours ago, armorand said:

So if WT is getting more artics... should we expect new routes with the extra 40ft buses made available by being replaced with 60 foot artics? Or more frequency on other routes? Or just increased spare ratios?

We’re still getting 34 brand new buses for 2020  According to the budget and I don’t think they will do new routes as there’s no money budgeted for that like the 52 has to be  re-examined and the extra 40 foots will be used elsewhere. Who knows I can’t see new routes being added till at least the fall change and even if we do see new routes we would kno based on the city clerks website showing all public works meetings 

[Taylorover9001]

5 hours ago, Wpgtransit11-25 said:

We’re still getting 34 brand new buses for 2020  According to the budget and I don’t think they will do new routes as there’s no money budgeted for that like the 52 has to be  re-examined and the extra 40 foots will be used elsewhere. Who knows I can’t see new routes being added till at least the fall change and even if we do see new routes we would know based on the city clerks website showing all public works meetings 

They could always replace the 39 ;). But regardless, I really hope frequency gets improved on routes like 95, and especially the 84 and 86.