armorand Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Hey guys, I was reading a link somewhere and it said that CrossIron Mills has an employee shuttle service. What buse's would it use, and is there anywhere where I can find more information? http://www.crossironmills.com/File/File/507/file.ashx (edit, found link) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicinity Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Hey guys, I was reading a link somewhere and it said that CrossIron Mills has an employee shuttle service. What buse's would it use, and is there anywhere where I can find more information? http://www.crossironmills.com/File/File/507/file.ashx (edit, found link) They are First student Canada buses in a special cross iron mills livery/wrap. perhaps u can find out more at the mall info centre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D40LF Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 I see those buses at McKnight Westwinds all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paratransit Fellow Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 They use a giardin cut-away bus for the Airdrie schedule. It's actually just a small yellow school bus (i seem to recall that the regs state you are supposed to take the "school bus " identifier off if it isn't being normally used for student transportation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCT-3122-D800-10240 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 They use a giardin cut-away bus for the Airdrie schedule. It's actually just a small yellow school bus (i seem to recall that the regs state you are supposed to take the "school bus " identifier off if it isn't being normally used for student transportation) Usually it was a small black and white Ford Corbeil cutaway when I have seen it operating on the Airdrie to Cross-Iron Mills service. Funny this topic came up in this thread as just last night I had someone on my bus asking about this service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorand Posted December 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Usually it was a small black and white Ford Corbeil cutaway when I have seen it operating on the Airdrie to Cross-Iron Mills service. Funny this topic came up in this thread as just last night I had someone on my bus asking about this service. Too bad Crossiron Mills isn't connecting with Airdrie ICE. I'd be willing to pay $5 for ICE fare to shop there, and then it'd reduce congestion on Deerfoot Trail. Also: 62 people (D60LFR seating capacity if I remember correctly) x $5 = $310/dropoff of Calgary shoppers (gross, NO IDEA what net income would be). Times that by an 30-45 min frequency for 6 hours (assuming people shop mostly between 3 and 9 pm), would range in between $3,720 (30 min frequency), to $2,480 (45 minutes), to $1,860 (60 minutes). As I've never been on an ICE bus, I'd have to ask you guys if you know if theres Airdrie transfers. If not, then those same people would be paying for a return trip, therefore doubling the amount ($7,440/$4,960/$3,720). Also, the transfer would pretty much barely last a two-way trip assuming its an 60 minute transfer (along with that shoppers bussed to Crossiron to shop!) Hopefully, my math isn't too bad haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karting_tigo Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I think this was been posted under the Airdrie ICE topic but also worth noting in this topic as well. This was an article in one of Airdrie's newspapers regarding a report to City Council: ICE bus will not stop at CrossIron Mills mall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorand Posted December 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I think this was been posted under the Airdrie ICE topic but also worth noting in this topic as well. This was an article in one of Airdrie's newspapers regarding a report to City Council:ICE bus will not stop at CrossIron Mills mall (reads article) Just wondering, why can't they extend it past peak hours and second, have they forgot about shoppers? Theres nothing but garbage for shopping in North Calgary (minus Centre St), so that'd be a HUGE revenue base if worked right. Also, does the ICE have to go straight downtown between 9 am and 3:30 pm? Can't it just meet up with Calgary Transit at McKnight-Westwinds or Centre St, and hereby increase frequency with a shorter route and letting the LRT take care of the ones heading into the city? Well, that or designate one as an Crossiron ICE bus, and use the rest for Calgary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karting_tigo Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (reads article)Just wondering, why can't they extend it past peak hours and second, have they forgot about shoppers? Theres nothing but garbage for shopping in North Calgary (minus Centre St), so that'd be a HUGE revenue base if worked right. Also, does the ICE have to go straight downtown between 9 am and 3:30 pm? Can't it just meet up with Calgary Transit at McKnight-Westwinds or Centre St, and hereby increase frequency with a shorter route and letting the LRT take care of the ones heading into the city? Well, that or designate one as an Crossiron ICE bus, and use the rest for Calgary? ICE only runs peak morning and afternoon (3 trips during each). The main problem is the bus from Calgary in the morning is passing by the mall almost 2 hours before it opens. Therefore, the current schedules are not going to attract much or any ridership. The lack of transit is a consequence of the location - in Rocky View County. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorand Posted December 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 ICE only runs peak morning and afternoon (3 trips during each). The main problem is the bus from Calgary in the morning is passing by the mall almost 2 hours before it opens. Therefore, the current schedules are not going to attract much or any ridership.The lack of transit is a consequence of the location - in Rocky View County. How about after the PM Peak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karting_tigo Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 How about after the PM Peak? In theory you would have to be at the mall already as all trips originate from Airdrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlo86 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (reads article)Just wondering, why can't they extend it past peak hours and second, have they forgot about shoppers? Theres nothing but garbage for shopping in North Calgary (minus Centre St), so that'd be a HUGE revenue base if worked right. Also, does the ICE have to go straight downtown between 9 am and 3:30 pm? Can't it just meet up with Calgary Transit at McKnight-Westwinds or Centre St, and hereby increase frequency with a shorter route and letting the LRT take care of the ones heading into the city? Well, that or designate one as an Crossiron ICE bus, and use the rest for Calgary? The whole point if the ICE service is to create a convenient commuter service. With convenience comes simplicity. Simplicity means as few transfers as possible. Thus direct service to the core is what makes sense. Plus having non-Calgary resident commuters use Park N'Ride lots that are funded by Calgary taxpayers is a contentious issue. Part of the rationale for the previous $3 parking fee was that the city felt out of town commuters should be footing part of the bill to operate Park N'Ride and not just Calgary taxpayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransitOp Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 The whole point if the ICE service is to create a convenient commuter service. With convenience comes simplicity. Simplicity means as few transfers as possible. Thus direct service to the core is what makes sense. Plus having non-Calgary resident commuters use Park N'Ride lots that are funded by Calgary taxpayers is a contentious issue. Part of the rationale for the previous $3 parking fee was that the city felt out of town commuters should be footing part of the bill to operate Park N'Ride and not just Calgary taxpayers. Tolls on all major entries into calgary during weekday peaktimes would ensure that out of towners paid their fair share. The political establishment at City Hall doesn't have the balls to do such a bold move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paratransit Fellow Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Usually it was a small black and white Ford Corbeil cutaway when I have seen it operating on the Airdrie to Cross-Iron Mills service. Funny this topic came up in this thread as just last night I had someone on my bus asking about this service. lately I only see the yellow one. Maybe the white and black one is under repair. (reads article)Just wondering, why can't they extend it past peak hours and second, have they forgot about shoppers? Theres nothing but garbage for shopping in North Calgary (minus Centre St), so that'd be a HUGE revenue base if worked right. Also, does the ICE have to go straight downtown between 9 am and 3:30 pm? Can't it just meet up with Calgary Transit at McKnight-Westwinds or Centre St, and hereby increase frequency with a shorter route and letting the LRT take care of the ones heading into the city? Well, that or designate one as an Crossiron ICE bus, and use the rest for Calgary? The simple answer is that Airdrie doesn't want to subsidize transit service to Rocky View County. In general, no municpality will provide transit in another municipality without some sort of reciprocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorand Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 The simple answer is that Airdrie doesn't want to subsidize transit service to Rocky View County. In general, no municpality will provide transit in another municipality without some sort of reciprocity. East. St Paul and Headingley in Winnipeg are very prime examples of this. With the revenues of Crossiron Mills and all the new development though, would it be possible for Rocky View County to pay for Airdrie Transit, Southland or Calgary Transit service? Seeing as they have full-sized buse's required for the shoppers and employees to get from A to B. Possibly an Airdrie CrossIrons route using the NovaBus they have, while Calgary Transit operates its own service to CrossIron? Having the county pay for it though, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karting_tigo Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 East. St Paul and Headingley in Winnipeg are very prime examples of this. With the revenues of Crossiron Mills and all the new development though, would it be possible for Rocky View County to pay for Airdrie Transit, Southland or Calgary Transit service? Seeing as they have full-sized buse's required for the shoppers and employees to get from A to B. Possibly an Airdrie CrossIrons route using the NovaBus they have, while Calgary Transit operates its own service to CrossIron? Having the county pay for it though, of course... In theory your concept has merit. In today's reality not so much. Rocky View County is not a current member of the Calgary Regional Partnership and thereby is not an active partner in the planning and implementation of regional transit. Then there is a the financial implications of transit implementation. The County recently laid off a number of staff including those from protective services to cut operating costs. I very much question the logic to initiate a regional transit program as a new municipal service in the midst of laying off core staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorand Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 In theory your concept has merit. In today's reality not so much. Rocky View County is not a current member of the Calgary Regional Partnership and thereby is not an active partner in the planning and implementation of regional transit. Then there is a the financial implications of transit implementation. The County recently laid off a number of staff including those from protective services to cut operating costs. I very much question the logic to initiate a regional transit program as a new municipal service in the midst of laying off core staff. Odd. They have tax revenues from CrossIron, and if I see it right on Google Maps, possible multi-family housing to the Southeast of Crossiron. That alone could keep the staff, unless they tax bare minimal rates. How about so-called Green TRIP funding? Maybe if it can't afford a wide-range transit partnership, it could afford a shuttlebus around the area (to different stores and residential), much like Calgary Transits 506 or Winnipeg Transits Downtown Spirit bus routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highfive Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Why does Cross Iron Mills need to have city transit service and why should taxpayers fund it? If there's a market a private company should look into providing a service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorand Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Why does Cross Iron Mills need to have city transit service and why should taxpayers fund it? If there's a market a private company should look into providing a service. I did mention Southland in my post, since they have quite a few buse's to spare. And you've seen the size of this thing, right? Or the parking lot? Could definitely use a transit service... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCT-3122-D800-10240 Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 I did mention Southland in my post, since they have quite a few buse's to spare. And you've seen the size of this thing, right? Or the parking lot? Could definitely use a transit service... Wait a minute, how would you know Southland has buses to spare? Maybe during the summer months when School's out, but not during the school year. Also, While checking some schedules for PWT's EBus service, I found a note on their website that they now offer a stop at the Crossiron Mills. But there's a small catch from what I found in their schedule, you can ride from Edmonton or Red Deer and get off at Crossiron Mills, but you can't board there going towards Calgary or board in Calgary to get off there. Maybe it's a mistake in their schedule, but I am not entirely sure. Someone gonna e-mail them about that? I could, but not sure if I will get to it or not. Ebus Schedule: http://www.myebus.ca/schedules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorand Posted June 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Wait a minute, how would you know Southland has buses to spare? Maybe during the summer months when School's out, but not during the school year. Also, While checking some schedules for PWT's EBus service, I found a note on their website that they now offer a stop at the Crossiron Mills. But there's a small catch from what I found in their schedule, you can ride from Edmonton or Red Deer and get off at Crossiron Mills, but you can't board there going towards Calgary or board in Calgary to get off there. Maybe it's a mistake in their schedule, but I am not entirely sure. Someone gonna e-mail them about that? I could, but not sure if I will get to it or not. Ebus Schedule: http://www.myebus.ca/schedules Since they *might* have a few buse's to spare. Whoops, should've worded that better. My bad. You have a much better understanding of Southland than me, so you could probably find out if they have any buse's to spare I could imagine at least a few, since they do commuter runs now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highfive Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 The issue so much isn't "buses to spare", its the fit in attempting to match capacity to demand. Trip demands to and from Cross Iron Mills is difficult to know; the market isn't stable. The ability to match capacity to demand might be difficult. The potential stable factor (employees) already have service. While its a market and admittedly underserved, it is a difficult market with virtually no captive ridership. (minimal stability). The ridership will be mostly contingent on whether its a sunny day or not rather than whether one needs to goto work, etc. Not saying its impossible, but there might be difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paratransit Fellow Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Odd. They have tax revenues from CrossIron, and if I see it right on Google Maps, possible multi-family housing to the Southeast of Crossiron. That alone could keep the staff, unless they tax bare minimal rates. How about so-called Green TRIP funding? Maybe if it can't afford a wide-range transit partnership, it could afford a shuttlebus around the area (to different stores and residential), much like Calgary Transits 506 or Winnipeg Transits Downtown Spirit bus routes. If that that area South east of MallZac is also South of Stoney trail... then the housing is in Calgary... . Once again you have the issue of Municpality A paing for services to be received by municpality B(there is a proposed housing project proposed to be Northeast of the Crossironmiills site). as was mentioned by someone else... Green trip is designayted for the Calgary region and the Regional plan has nothing for the Balzac area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorand Posted July 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 If that that area South east of MallZac is also South of Stoney trail... then the housing is in Calgary... . Once again you have the issue of Municpality A paing for services to be received by municpality B(there is a proposed housing project proposed to be Northeast of the Crossironmiills site). as was mentioned by someone else... Green trip is designayted for the Calgary region and the Regional plan has nothing for the Balzac area. Oh no. Search "CrossIron Mills" on Google Maps and look slightly SW. There should be low-rise housing units there, or a condominium. https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=crossiron+mills&hl=en&ll=51.204195,-113.983369&spn=0.015246,0.042272&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=32.227455,86.572266&t=h&hq=crossiron+mills&z=15 The 3-4 on the right side of the map. Even if Balzac isn't included in the regional transit agreement, couldn't it use these tax revenues to fund a shuttle service between that area of developing housing and the mall itself, plus Costco and such? It'd be a nice people mover, plus technically a park-and-ride between various stores, much like Calgarys Route 506, or Winnipegs "Downtown Spirit". I'd definitely use it, if I can afford to go to Alberta again that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paratransit Fellow Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm still unsure of where you mean. I work in the area and I know there are no townhouses or condos in the Balzac region ( currently it is acreages). There is still a lack of water supply to the Crossiron area so any moderate density residential in that part of Rocky View County is definitely a low priority. I see structures in your map to the east... they are the horse barns (by dwight mclellend trail) for the abandoned race track. www.uha.ca or search for United Horsemen of Alberta for the news stories about the projects demise. AFAIK immediately south of Xiron is another business park. West of Xiron (other side of Highway 2) is City of Calgary and the associated inter- municipal juridiction issues. As for the transit for the area, the county's current view is that if the Mall wants transit... the Mall can set up (pay) their own public transit service. It sounds harsh but a mere eight years ago, the county still considered itself an agricultural community. Implications of this development stuff is taking a while to sink in. Right now "transit" is a word on a list of their long-term plans. But the Mall is doing well and who knows how their priorities will shift in the next 5 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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