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With 2011 coming to a close, MTA will bail out on operating Long Island Bus, and effectively on the first day of 2012, Veolia Transportation will takeover the service.

Checkout the video of the conference

Checkout the website about the benefits of why they chosen Veolia instead of MTA running it. These results in substantial savings for bus service unlike MTA which cost very expense for them to operate.

http://www.nassaucountyny.gov/agencies/Cou...ewsRelease/2010

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  • 1 month later...

I heard the switchover went well, a bunch of guys worked through New Years to get it done. One of the buses already has the new NICE graphics, and the rest are being done now. These graphics are temporary, as they have been applied over the old MTA graphics due to the limited amount of time available. Can't wait to see the finished graphic schemes.

I'll work on grabbing some photos for you.

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  • 2 years later...

It's also Nassau is having huge problem as buses breaking down a lot to keep up the service demand! I'm told it's temporary for couple of years until new buses are on order!

Yes they want to tender a new CNG order within the next year or so. Some are their older CNG V's are falling apart. This is a short gap measure to keep them going.

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As of yesterday, NICE has awarded the contract of a base order of 52 buses and optional orders of up to 58 buses to New Flyer, who will build XN40s. Here's New Flyer's press release. NICE states on their Facebook page that their XN40s will be delivered in early 2016.

Look for them to find the funding for the 58 other XN's as they need to replace the whole CNG V fleet

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  • 3 years later...

As of 10/9/2018, NICE's roster consist of the following:

-2004 Orion V CNGs: #1649, #1667-1668, #1671, #1673, #1677, #1688, #1693, and #1699 (9) (Most units retired in 2016-2017)

-2008-2011 Orion VII NG CNGs #1700-1803, #1805-1839 (139, #1804 retired in 2011 after a bad accident in the MTA Long Island bus era, never served NICE)

-2012-2013 Orion VII EPA10 (3G) CNGs #1840-1884 (45) (These are the last Orion VII CNGs and by extension last Orion VIIs for NYC. Originally for 43 buses, Orion tacked on 2 extra units to replace the totaled #1804 and at the time nearly totaled #1808).

-2015-2016 New Flyer XN40s: #1885-1964 (80) (First New Flyer CNGs for Nassau county and long island)

-2016 Spirit of Mobility ARBOCs (#2290-2297) (8) (First diesel buses for NICE)

-2016 New Flyer XN60s (#1965-1969)(5) ( First CNG artics for NICE and the NYC metro as a whole).

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  • 5 weeks later...
10 hours ago, Chris.A said:

Does anyone think NICE will keep an Orion V CNG for preservation? These buses overall were serving long island for almost 30 years at this point!

They barely have enough money and manpower to maintain the buses to make service as it is, preserving buses is likely not on their agenda.

Also especially given the costs of retanking or recertifying the tanks...

Notice how the preserved Fishbowl is never used.

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21 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

They barely have enough money and manpower to maintain the buses to make service as it is, preserving buses is likely not on their agenda.

Also especially given the costs of retanking or recertifying the tanks...

Notice how the preserved Fishbowl is never used.

They can sell one back to the MTA. Also, it is just one unit I'm talking about. This is not like what NYCTA did back in 2003 when they re-tanked  ( and repowered) the 1994-1995 Orion V CNGs #317,  #581-610.

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17 hours ago, Chris.A said:

They can sell one back to the MTA. Also, it is just one unit I'm talking about. This is not like what NYCTA did back in 2003 when they re-tanked  ( and repowered) the 1994-1995 Orion V CNGs #317,  #581-610.

You're missing my point: you can say all these things but all of that costs money. These are transit agencies not bus museums, the MTA has no business buying back an old, beat to s#it CNG bus, refurbishing it mechanically and aesthetically, paying a lot of money to retank it or recertify the tanks, just to hide it away in Ansterdam depot where it will never see the light of day for the next 10-15 years because the Orion 5 design isn't considered old by them yet. It just doesn't make financial sense given how this is not southern california, NICE has zero money to spare, and the NYMTA has ZERO interest in preserving CNG buses (Note how they almost scrapped the 1994 TMC RTS-06 CNG, note how they didn't preserve a single MTA-legacy Orion V CNG (which they would have kept if they really wanted an Orion V CNG, as opposed to an ex-LIB one), and also the c40LF allegedly "reserved" for the museum hasn't done anything for years and is sitting stripped of paint in eastchester...). Furthermore, the MTA has indicated they have ZERO interest in preserving another Orion 5 beyond 93001. They had 6000 for almosr a year, but then scrapped that because it would be redundant to have 2 Orion 5s that have no significant exterior differences (Frankly the only thing going for 6000 was the transit interior and even that wasn't worth keeping).

So no, no NICE Orion 5 CNG is going to be preserved unless someone decides to step up and privately preserve one...

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7 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

 

You're missing my point: you can say all these things but all of that costs money. These are transit agencies not bus museums, the MTA has no business buying back an old, beat to s#it CNG bus, refurbishing it mechanically and aesthetically, paying a lot of money to retank it or recertify the tanks, just to hide it away in Ansterdam depot where it will never see the light of day for the next 10-15 years because the Orion 5 design isn't considered old by them yet. It just doesn't make financial sense given how this is not southern california, NICE has zero money to spare, and the NYMTA has ZERO interest in preserving CNG buses (Note how they almost scrapped the 1994 TMC RTS-06 CNG, note how they didn't preserve a single MTA-legacy Orion V CNG (which they would have kept if they really wanted an Orion V CNG, as opposed to an ex-LIB one), and also the c40LF allegedly "reserved" for the museum hasn't done anything for years and is sitting stripped of paint in eastchester...). Furthermore, the MTA has indicated they have ZERO interest in preserving another Orion 5 beyond 93001. They had 6000 for almosr a year, but then scrapped that because it would be redundant to have 2 Orion 5s that have no significant exterior differences (Frankly the only thing going for 6000 was the transit interior and even that wasn't worth keeping).

So no, no NICE Orion 5 CNG is going to be preserved unless someone decides to step up and privately preserve one...

Ok, going slightly off topic, that point you made makes no sense. How can you say that the MTA does not want to retain another Orion V? The MTA has been know to keep several units of the same bus model. Hell, they have like what, 5-6 different GMC New Look (Fishbowls) and that does not even count the further 2 units from the former private lines! They have about 2 Old Looks, 2 Flexible New Looks, And no less then 9 (soon to be 11) RTS buses of different years. 1 NYCTA 1981 GMC unit, 2 NYCTA 1985-1986 GMC unit, 1 Private lines 1985 GMC unit, 1 1991 NYCTA TMC unit (repowered), 3 Private Lines 1993-1994 TMC units (including the for mentioned  CNG), 1 (soon to be 2) NYCTA 1996 Novabus unit/s, and a soon to be NYCTA 1999 unit. Don't tell me they can't save 1 more Orion V regardless if it is a 2004 V CNG from Nassau Inter-county Express or not. 6000 maybe gone, but there is also #6326 left as well, being used perhaps as a storage bus of some sort for future preservation. They also need to save a D60HF and an Orion VII OG hybrid (or even CNG).

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6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

How can you say that the MTA does not want to retain another Orion V?

Well 6000 was scrapped so..... It's not just me saying/implying it......

6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

Hell, they have like what, 5-6 different GMC New Look (Fishbowls)

And here's why:

100 (1959 TDH-5301): representative of NYC's first order of fishbowls

1059 (1961 TDH-5301): Representative of the NYCTA livery

2151 (1962 TDH-5301): No idea why they have this one. Largely identical to 100

3758 (1963 TDH-5303): Representative of the 5303 model

8466 (1966 TDH-5303): Representative of a Fishbowl with the batwings advertising

8928 (1968 TDH-5305A): Representative of the 5305A model

5227 (1971 T6H-5305A): Last Fishbowl to operate in NYC, representative of the Blitz rebuilds

236 (1979 T8H-5307A): Representative of Triboro Coach in the museum fleet

1502 (1982 T8H-5308A): Representative of NYBS in the museum fleet

--

So there's a *reason* why the MTA has all the fishbowls. It isn't some casual flippant thing of saying "Oh wouldn't it be nice to have [X] because i want it." All but 1 have a unique purpose and all are frankly easy to hold on to because of the parts availability on the market, as well as the parts donor they have in eastchester...

Furthermore, they *have* demonstrate that they realize they have too many of them. They sold of a Jamaica Lines bowl to Hershey, and scrapped a cutdown Bowl that served as a roadeo bus...

6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

2 Old Looks

There are 3, and just like the Fishbowls, they all serve a unique purpose in the museum fleet...

same story for the flx new looks

6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

And no less then 9 (soon to be 11) RTS buses of different years. 1 NYCTA 1981 GMC unit, 2 NYCTA 1985-1986 GMC unit, 1 Private lines 1985 GMC unit, 1 1991 NYCTA TMC unit (repowered), 3 Private Lines 1993-1994 TMC units (including the for mentioned  CNG), 1 (soon to be 2) NYCTA 1996 Novabus unit/s, and a soon to be NYCTA 1999 unit.

 

1201: First RTS for NYCTA

10001: representative of green bus lines

275: representative of queens surface

3865: representative of jamaica bus lines

4904: " " command " "

1996 TBD: Served as part of the atlanta olympics bus shuttle

5249: last production RTS for NYCTA

So first of all, it's 6 (Explanations for whatever other ones you mention are at the bottom). Secondly, they all have a purpose to exist, just like the Bowls and old looks.

6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

Don't tell me they can't save 1 more Orion V regardless if it is a 2004 V CNG from Nassau Inter-county Express or not.

Oh I will. It doesn't make fiscal sense at all. Let me quote what you conveniently avoided, explaining why it makes no fiscal sense:

15 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

NYMTA has ZERO interest in preserving CNG buses (Note how they almost scrapped the 1994 TMC RTS-06 CNG, note how they didn't preserve a single MTA-legacy Orion V CNG (which they would have kept if they really wanted an Orion V CNG, as opposed to an ex-LIB one), and also the c40LF allegedly "reserved" for the museum hasn't done anything for years and is sitting stripped of paint in eastchester...).

 

15 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

the MTA has no business buying back an old, beat to s#it CNG bus, refurbishing it mechanically and aesthetically, paying a lot of money to retank it or recertify the tanks, just to hide it away in Ansterdam depot where it will never see the light of day for the next 10-15 years

And furthermore, if the MTA cared about preserving their MSBA and LI Bus history, they would have held on to that MSBA Fishbowl instead of sending it off with the rest of the LI Bus fleet to NICE...

You can keep saying that "They have saved [X] number of [Y] bus model" but ultimately that means nothing in this context because:

*There's a reason they have so many. 

*It's evident the MTA doesn't care about their Nassau County history

*The museum evidently has no interest in preserving CNG buses. Look at 4904. That bus didn't move at all from 2007 until 2018, and it only moved in 2018 to go up to Eastchester to get scrapped, and it WOULD have been scrapped along with 6000 and 1004/1000 had the appropriate people not stepped in. And even so, the museum has not put much effort into that bus, partially because of the significant investment it would take to restore it to legal and operational condition. It's not cheap to retank or recertify tanks on a CNG bus, and then they'dhave to continually invest in the tanks for decades, and that just costs too much.... Especially considering the fact that you'd put so much money in for so little payoff (Busfest, bus roadeo...). Even given the significance of the MTA's first c40LF order, they still haven't acted on saving one... They didn't set aside 7560 either...

*There's already an Orion 5 suburban, and I realized they have 2 Orion 5 transits purchased second hand from Bee Line... That covers all possible feasible bases of preserving MTA Orion 5s...

*And like i already said, why would they save an LIB Orion 5 CNG, when they declined to save an MTA Orion 5 CNG, which is much more relevant to the NYTM anyway

----

The museum has a budget to hold, and a lot of that is going to the subways in order to restore the majority of the cars before the mechanics who know how to maintain them retire. You have to approach this from a logical and fiscal standpoint as opposed to an emotional one. It would be cool to see a NICE Orion 5 CNG get preserved, but it won't happen on the dollar of any agency or museum...

6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

also #6326 left as well, being used perhaps as a storage bus of some sort for future preservation.

Don't get your hopes up. 6326 was last marked as a maintenance trainer and such buses usually disappear.......

6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

preservation. They also need to save a D60HF and an Orion VII OG hybrid (or even CNG).

Very likely hybrid

6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

1 1991 NYCTA TMC unit (repowered), 

That's a metrocard bus not a museum bus

6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

2 NYCTA 1985-1986 GMC unit

Those are functional mobile command units, not museum buses

 

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2 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

Well 6000 was scrapped so..... It's not just me saying/implying it......

And here's why:

100 (1959 TDH-5301): representative of NYC's first order of fishbowls

1059 (1961 TDH-5301): Representative of the NYCTA livery

2151 (1962 TDH-5301): No idea why they have this one. Largely identical to 100

3758 (1963 TDH-5303): Representative of the 5303 model

8466 (1966 TDH-5303): Representative of a Fishbowl with the batwings advertising

8928 (1968 TDH-5305A): Representative of the 5305A model

5227 (1971 T6H-5305A): Last Fishbowl to operate in NYC, representative of the Blitz rebuilds

236 (1979 T8H-5307A): Representative of Triboro Coach in the museum fleet

1502 (1982 T8H-5308A): Representative of NYBS in the museum fleet

--

So there's a *reason* why the MTA has all the fishbowls. It isn't some casual flippant thing of saying "Oh wouldn't it be nice to have [X] because i want it." All but 1 have a unique purpose and all are frankly easy to hold on to because of the parts availability on the market, as well as the parts donor they have in eastchester...

Furthermore, they *have* demonstrate that they realize they have too many of them. They sold of a Jamaica Lines bowl to Hershey, and scrapped a cutdown Bowl that served as a roadeo bus...

There are 3, and just like the Fishbowls, they all serve a unique purpose in the museum fleet...

same story for the flx new looks

 

1201: First RTS for NYCTA

10001: representative of green bus lines

275: representative of queens surface

3865: representative of jamaica bus lines

4904: " " command " "

1996 TBD: Served as part of the atlanta olympics bus shuttle

5249: last production RTS for NYCTA

So first of all, it's 6 (Explanations for whatever other ones you mention are at the bottom). Secondly, they all have a purpose to exist, just like the Bowls and old looks.

Oh I will. It doesn't make fiscal sense at all. Let me quote what you conveniently avoided, explaining why it makes no fiscal sense:

 

And furthermore, if the MTA cared about preserving their MSBA and LI Bus history, they would have held on to that MSBA Fishbowl instead of sending it off with the rest of the LI Bus fleet to NICE...

You can keep saying that "They have saved [X] number of [Y] bus model" but ultimately that means nothing in this context because:

*There's a reason they have so many. 

*It's evident the MTA doesn't care about their Nassau County history

*The museum evidently has no interest in preserving CNG buses. Look at 4904. That bus didn't move at all from 2007 until 2018, and it only moved in 2018 to go up to Eastchester to get scrapped, and it WOULD have been scrapped along with 6000 and 1004/1000 had the appropriate people not stepped in. And even so, the museum has not put much effort into that bus, partially because of the significant investment it would take to restore it to legal and operational condition. It's not cheap to retank or recertify tanks on a CNG bus, and then they'dhave to continually invest in the tanks for decades, and that just costs too much.... Especially considering the fact that you'd put so much money in for so little payoff (Busfest, bus roadeo...). Even given the significance of the MTA's first c40LF order, they still haven't acted on saving one... They didn't set aside 7560 either...

*There's already an Orion 5 suburban, and I realized they have 2 Orion 5 transits purchased second hand from Bee Line... That covers all possible feasible bases of preserving MTA Orion 5s...

*And like i already said, why would they save an LIB Orion 5 CNG, when they declined to save an MTA Orion 5 CNG, which is much more relevant to the NYTM anyway

----

The museum has a budget to hold, and a lot of that is going to the subways in order to restore the majority of the cars before the mechanics who know how to maintain them retire. You have to approach this from a logical and fiscal standpoint as opposed to an emotional one. It would be cool to see a NICE Orion 5 CNG get preserved, but it won't happen on the dollar of any agency or museum...

Don't get your hopes up. 6326 was last marked as a maintenance trainer and such buses usually disappear.......

Very likely hybrid

That's a metrocard bus not a museum bus

Those are functional mobile command units, not museum buses

 

In regards to the 1998-2000 New Flyer C40LFs, we do technically have #848.  Plus, there are around 55 2004-2005 Orion VII OG CNGs still active out of WF depot, so there's still SOME hope. We'll just have to wait and see. The MTA has pulled surprises before (no one expected them to save an Orion VI for example).

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 2:09 AM, Orion6025 said:

Well 6000 was scrapped so..... It's not just me saying/implying it......

And here's why:

100 (1959 TDH-5301): representative of NYC's first order of fishbowls

1059 (1961 TDH-5301): Representative of the NYCTA livery

2151 (1962 TDH-5301): No idea why they have this one. Largely identical to 100

3758 (1963 TDH-5303): Representative of the 5303 model

8466 (1966 TDH-5303): Representative of a Fishbowl with the batwings advertising

8928 (1968 TDH-5305A): Representative of the 5305A model

5227 (1971 T6H-5305A): Last Fishbowl to operate in NYC, representative of the Blitz rebuilds

236 (1979 T8H-5307A): Representative of Triboro Coach in the museum fleet

1502 (1982 T8H-5308A): Representative of NYBS in the museum fleet

--

So there's a *reason* why the MTA has all the fishbowls. It isn't some casual flippant thing of saying "Oh wouldn't it be nice to have [X] because i want it." All but 1 have a unique purpose and all are frankly easy to hold on to because of the parts availability on the market, as well as the parts donor they have in eastchester...

Furthermore, they *have* demonstrate that they realize they have too many of them. They sold of a Jamaica Lines bowl to Hershey, and scrapped a cutdown Bowl that served as a roadeo bus...

There are 3, and just like the Fishbowls, they all serve a unique purpose in the museum fleet...

same story for the flx new looks

 

1201: First RTS for NYCTA

10001: representative of green bus lines

275: representative of queens surface

3865: representative of jamaica bus lines

4904: " " command " "

1996 TBD: Served as part of the atlanta olympics bus shuttle

5249: last production RTS for NYCTA

So first of all, it's 6 (Explanations for whatever other ones you mention are at the bottom). Secondly, they all have a purpose to exist, just like the Bowls and old looks.

Oh I will. It doesn't make fiscal sense at all. Let me quote what you conveniently avoided, explaining why it makes no fiscal sense:

 

And furthermore, if the MTA cared about preserving their MSBA and LI Bus history, they would have held on to that MSBA Fishbowl instead of sending it off with the rest of the LI Bus fleet to NICE...

You can keep saying that "They have saved [X] number of [Y] bus model" but ultimately that means nothing in this context because:

*There's a reason they have so many. 

*It's evident the MTA doesn't care about their Nassau County history

*The museum evidently has no interest in preserving CNG buses. Look at 4904. That bus didn't move at all from 2007 until 2018, and it only moved in 2018 to go up to Eastchester to get scrapped, and it WOULD have been scrapped along with 6000 and 1004/1000 had the appropriate people not stepped in. And even so, the museum has not put much effort into that bus, partially because of the significant investment it would take to restore it to legal and operational condition. It's not cheap to retank or recertify tanks on a CNG bus, and then they'dhave to continually invest in the tanks for decades, and that just costs too much.... Especially considering the fact that you'd put so much money in for so little payoff (Busfest, bus roadeo...). Even given the significance of the MTA's first c40LF order, they still haven't acted on saving one... They didn't set aside 7560 either...

*There's already an Orion 5 suburban, and I realized they have 2 Orion 5 transits purchased second hand from Bee Line... That covers all possible feasible bases of preserving MTA Orion 5s...

*And like i already said, why would they save an LIB Orion 5 CNG, when they declined to save an MTA Orion 5 CNG, which is much more relevant to the NYTM anyway

----

The museum has a budget to hold, and a lot of that is going to the subways in order to restore the majority of the cars before the mechanics who know how to maintain them retire. You have to approach this from a logical and fiscal standpoint as opposed to an emotional one. It would be cool to see a NICE Orion 5 CNG get preserved, but it won't happen on the dollar of any agency or museum...

Don't get your hopes up. 6326 was last marked as a maintenance trainer and such buses usually disappear.......

Very likely hybrid

That's a metrocard bus not a museum bus

Those are functional mobile command units, not museum buses

 

You do realize that Long Island bus was still MTA right? So what you said there didn't make an ounce of sense.

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6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

You do realize that Long Island bus was still MTA right? So what you said there didn't make an ounce of sense.

Jesus christ man this was almost a month ago, let it go instead of trying to find any opportunity to get under my skin because you're still salty over this.

--

anyway, I assume you're referring to the part on bold? My point was that it makes more sense for the New York Transit Museum to preserve a bus operated in New York, i.e. the MTA, over a bus operated in Nassau County, i.e. LIB.

ultimately all of this is moot anyway IMO because of what I already said a month ago:

On 11/11/2018 at 2:09 AM, Orion6025 said:

And furthermore, if the MTA cared about preserving their MSBA and LI Bus history, they would have held on to that MSBA Fishbowl instead of sending it off with the rest of the LI Bus fleet to NICE...

Hell the NYTM even gave up and ordered the M1 and P72 pairs scrapped, it's obvious they want nothing to do with the divisions outside of the NYC Subways and buses.

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On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 1:27 AM, Orion6025 said:

Jesus christ man this was almost a month ago, let it go instead of trying to find any opportunity to get under my skin because you're still salty over this.

--

anyway, I assume you're referring to the part on bold? My point was that it makes more sense for the New York Transit Museum to preserve a bus operated in New York, i.e. the MTA, over a bus operated in Nassau County, i.e. LIB.

ultimately all of this is moot anyway IMO because of what I already said a month ago:

Hell the NYTM even gave up and ordered the M1 and P72 pairs scrapped, it's obvious they want nothing to do with the divisions outside of the NYC Subways and buses.

They had an M1 Pair set for preservation? Didn't know that one. As for buses, I would expect that they will stop collecting buses when there is no longer anything unique about them. The final bus they should save is an electric bus when one of the older fleets of them retire in about 20 years.

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3 hours ago, Chris.A said:

They had an M1 Pair set for preservation? Didn't know that one. As for buses, I would expect that they will stop collecting buses when there is no longer anything unique about them. The final bus they should save is an electric bus when one of the older fleets of them retire in about 20 years.

Yeah they had a pair of M1s but they elected to scrap them because they deteriorated significantly, amd restoration wasn't worth it because the RMLI has a pair in fair condition

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