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Double decker bus order

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4 hours ago, chimo said:

OC has to find a 100 million in cost avoidance as that's what they told council. 

I don't hold much hope on that. But one thing the current mayor seems to be good at is talking to business, perhaps he can arrange a deal that will help pay for this. 

I would be surprised if we did like the STO and self-fund this or we would already have it. 

Or am too negative and this will come live at the same time as the Confederation Line as part of a huge re-branding exercise.

$100 million dollars in cost avoidance. That is around 1/3 of the transit budget. Not sure how much cost control that would take especially when the demand simply isn't going away even with the Confederation Line opening. 

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City council has to realize that there are certain city services that can't avoid cost overrides and simply put the cost for proper service is expensive and no way aroulnd it IE EMS(Police,Fire,Amblance/Paramedics) & Transit. Other services could find savings, maybe with the exception of snow clearing(dependimng on the winter we have).

 

There are certain service in the city that simply can't make money due to cost factor of running the service(Arena's & pools) I worked in both for 10 years and the cost of running them out way the cost they bring in. For the "True" cost for them to make money even with Tax payer support and user fees,the user fees and rentals would be so high people won't be able to afford them. Pols and arena's simply can't pay for themselfs but even though they loose money, it a city service thats basically meant to loose money but is needed for the comunity.

 

Simply put there a city services that cost way more then the city can afford and others loose money but are neeeded.

 

Basically you got a few choices, raise taxes to pay for them or cut services. Basically Your Damed If You Do, Your Damed If You Don't?

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Just to be clear it's not cost cutting, although most in city council were delusional enough to think we could cut costs, OC told them it's about avoiding future cost increases.

I agree that this amount is significant and am not sure if it's doable. Also disappointed that our LRT is not seen as the occasion to reinvest in our transit system

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As confirmed a few months ago, OC Transpo is purchasing 17 new double deckers.

Here is a tweet I found mentioning a double decker found in Oxford, United Kingdom. 

I didn't ask him for what the bus number was. Though, I highly doubt OC Transpo would be sending double deckers out to the United Kingdom. Any repairs would be done at the yard, so I feel that this is most likely the same model (81xx series), just outsourced to England for manufacturing. The previous batch was made in Nappanee, Indiana for the original order of 37 double deckers (8101 to 8137), plus a request for an additional 6 units (8138 to 8143).

Assuming they still go by the same numbering system, they would continue with 8144 until 8160.

Final comments:

Going to need to be on the lookout for the next few days for any new postings or anyone checking where the deliveries are. 

Other than that, nice to see the purchase actually working through to the final movement to the City of Ottawa for shakedown testing before final acceptance. Want to make sure it goes right even after several days of travelling through (they would have an itinerary worked out to ensure least resistance). 

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9 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

As confirmed a few months ago, OC Transpo is purchasing 17 new double deckers.

Here is a tweet I found mentioning a double decker found in Oxford, United Kingdom. 

I didn't ask him for what the bus number was. Though, I highly doubt OC Transpo would be sending double deckers out to the United Kingdom. Any repairs would be done at the yard, so I feel that this is most likely the same model (81xx series), just outsourced to England for manufacturing. The previous batch was made in Nappanee, Indiana for the original order of 37 double deckers (8101 to 8137), plus a request for an additional 6 units (8138 to 8143).

Assuming they still go by the same numbering system, they would continue with 8144 until 8160.

Final comments:

Going to need to be on the lookout for the next few days for any new postings or anyone checking where the deliveries are. 

Other than that, nice to see the purchase actually working through to the final movement to the City of Ottawa for shakedown testing before final acceptance. Want to make sure it goes right even after several days of travelling through (they would have an itinerary worked out to ensure least resistance). 

Why would the bus be in Oxford?

If they are being built in the UK, they would be built at Alexanders plant in Falkirk, which is in Scotland, the Alexanders plant in England in Scarborough only builds buses for the UK market and is primarily a coach builder not a bus building plant. 

They would then be driven or towed to Southampton for shipment to Halifax, but there would be no reason to be anywhere near Oxford on its journey from Scotland unless it being used for demonstration purposes, although I am not aware of any trade shows being held in the UK at present.

I have also not read of any OC buses being under construction at Falkirk recently, although I believe the Mexico City order may currently be in build there.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Centralsmt said:

Why would the bus be in Oxford?

If they are being built in the UK, they would be built at Alexanders plant in Falkirk, which is in Scotland, the Alexanders plant in England in Scarborough only builds buses for the UK market and is primarily a coach builder not a bus building plant. 

They would then be driven or towed to Southampton for shipment to Halifax, but there would be no reason to be anywhere near Oxford on its journey from Scotland unless it being used for demonstration purposes, although I am not aware of any trade shows being held in the UK at present.

I have also not read of any OC buses being under construction at Falkirk recently, although I believe the Mexico City order may currently be in build there.

Based on Google Maps, the road journey from Falkirk to Southampton would go through Oxfordshire on the A34.

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1 hour ago, Waiting for 30 Minutes said:

Based on Google Maps, the road journey from Falkirk to Southampton would go through Oxfordshire on the A34.

 

That's the most direct route but not necessarily the route that they would take, particularly with the reconstruction projects going on just now on the M74/M6 corridor.

I'll check with friends back in Scotland to see if there are any reports of OC deckers being built at Falkirk at present, personally I would find it unusual for any new builds for Canada or the US to be made in Scotland these days.

Are there any current OC buses that haven't been spotted for a while, its possible one of them could be in the UK?

 

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2 hours ago, Centralsmt said:

That's the most direct route but not necessarily the route that they would take, particularly with the reconstruction projects going on just now on the M74/M6 corridor.

I'll check with friends back in Scotland to see if there are any reports of OC deckers being built at Falkirk at present, personally I would find it unusual for any new builds for Canada or the US to be made in Scotland these days.

Are there any current OC buses that haven't been spotted for a while, its possible one of them could be in the UK?

The only current order is the 17 new double decker buses. Like I mentioned, there aren't any buses out of service including double deckers. Inveros are being refurbished are the only ones not being spotted in a while, but this is to keep things together until they figure out their fleet management plan.

Checking back a few pages, the order was announced November 2016. Given it is now May 2017, it would be roughly 6 months. 

Those few months are critical to ensuring that they have the supply chain, manufacturing and delivery. 

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19 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

The only current order is the 17 new double decker buses. Like I mentioned, there aren't any buses out of service including double deckers. Inveros are being refurbished are the only ones not being spotted in a while, but this is to keep things together until they figure out their fleet management plan.

Checking back a few pages, the order was announced November 2016. Given it is now May 2017, it would be roughly 6 months. 

Those few months are critical to ensuring that they have the supply chain, manufacturing and delivery. 

You've completely missed my point.

I am questioning why would Alexanders build buses for the US and Canada in Scotland when there is now a plant in the US specifically for that purpose.

Falkirk is pretty much at full capacity these days with UK orders, which is why some UK buses are built at Scarborough which is the Plaxton coach building plant, they had to install a third assembly line to build the Mexico City order, which is substantially bigger than the OC order.

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There were three double deckers at the back of St. Laurent North when I passed by earlier today on a 106, an 8000 and two 8100s.

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Just had it confirmed that there were two OC Transpo Enviro 500's sitting in the yard in ADL at Falkirk on Sunday afternoon.

Very strange that they are being built in Scotland.

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2 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

Perhaps the plants in the US are booked solid and can't build them?

Yes they have the GO order for Superlows plus orders for Go anywhere models  for 24 from AC Transit. Also Alexander Dennis has UniTrans in Davis Ca has an order for 3 buses from Alexander Dennis and WestCAT-Western Contra Costa Transit Authority has an order of 6 buses from Alexander Dennis. 17 bus order for this year to Community Transit and 32 Buses for Sound Transit.

 

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This release:

http://www.alexander-dennis.com/news/alexander-dennis-inc-doubles-manufacturing-footprint-in-north-america/

indicates that ADL bought the Nappanee facility and was performing upgrades earlier this year. Even with the Ontario facility building 75 chassis a year, those are likely all destined for GO Transit. If the upgrades in Nappanee had any impact on production capacity, it's entirely likely that the OC Transpo order was completed in the UK. With Buy America being more strict than most Canadian provisions, a Canadian order that isn't the GO Transit order would be the first thing to be sent overseas.

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8144 and 8145 left Falkirk on the 4th May.

The batch is being built at Falkirk as Napanee could not guarantee delivery in time, they are being built in tandem with the Mexico City order which was always scheduled to be built in Scotland.

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2 hours ago, Centralsmt said:

8144 and 8145 left Falkirk on the 4th May.

The batch is being built at Falkirk as Napanee could not guarantee delivery in time, they are being built in tandem with the Mexico City order which was always scheduled to be built in Scotland.

Thanks for the update. We should be seeing them in Ottawa in the next few days.

Also confirming the continuation of the 8100 series numbering. 

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14 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Thanks for the update. We should be seeing them in Ottawa in the next few days.

Also confirming the continuation of the 8100 series numbering. 

A few days, it would take the bus around 2 -3 days to reach the ferry port with drivers working hours regulations in the UK alone.

I think you underestimate shipping time from the UK to Canada too, average shipping time is around 6-8 weeks, and the necessary documentation required for such a journey.

Unlikely they will be seen in service until the fall I would imagine.

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Both buses also appear to have been built at least a month before they left for the docks, I have just seen photographic evidence that 8145 was sitting in ADL fully completed on the 4th April.

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5 hours ago, Centralsmt said:

 

Both buses also appear to have been built at least a month before they left for the docks, I have just seen photographic evidence that 8145 was sitting in ADL fully completed on the 4th April.

 
 
Edited by JCL
A request was made to remove original image embedded with social media post. Instead a link has been made.
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1 hour ago, Centralsmt said:

Did you ask for permission from the original photographer before posting the photo?

i was sent the photo from the photographer with permission to publish it.

I copied-and-pasted the link from the tweet, and the tweet was automatically embedded to the post along with the image. 

So admitting, I did not ask you permission before posting that. Would you prefer me to edit the post and just post the tweet link?

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51 minutes ago, HB_1024 said:

It was posted publicly on Twitter...it becomes pretty much fair game for anyone to post it anywhere at that point.

Yes aslong as its retweeted from the photographers account or if they were granted permission. 

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