Denver RTD

[sdlinguist]

Just got back from a month in Boulder, CO which gave me a chance to document the Denver RTD. It's a pretty comprehensive and well-maintained system, with some nice fleet diversity too. Below are some photos and videos.

First, here's a 2000 Orion V with ISM+ZF in front of the Capitol Building in Denver:

This is one of 90 30' Gillig Phantoms from 2000 with ISC and ZF in front of the Boulder transit center:

A 2000 NABI 436 with ISM+ZF near Denver Civic Center station:

Here is a 2008 Gillig Advantage with ISM+ZF:

This is a 29' Gillig on one of Boulder's "community transit" routes, which all feature distinctive graphics and names like the HOP, SKIP, JUMP, LONG JUMP (non-shortline version of the JUMP), etc.

RTD also has a handful of Gillig BRT hybrids:

RTD has an extensive network of regional routes served mostly by Neoplan Metroliners and MCIs, with a couple of Blue Bird Express 4500s. Here's a Neoplan on the BOLT route:

And a 2009 MCI on the BX Boulder-Denver express. An excess bike is being loaded under the bus.

Finally, here's one of RTD's retired 1994 Gilligs with Series 50 + ZF, now in service for the University of Colorado. Others from this fleet went to LACMTA but are now retired from there as well.

Videos

2000 NABI 436 - Cummins ISM + ZF

2008 Gillig Advantage - Cummins ISM + ZF

2000 Gillig Phantom - Cummins ISC + ZF

[Nabinut]

Nice photos and videos. Denver & Salt Lake City are some of the major systems overlooked by busfans for reasons that are unknown. Even I haven't made it out there yet.

[Chris H]

Did the University of Colorado had Nova LFS before?

[sdlinguist]

Did the University of Colorado had Nova LFS before?

Not sure how many of each, but I saw the following in service for them this summer:

-- 1986 Neoplan AN460, ex-Dallas DART

-- 1994 Gillig Phantom, ex-RTD

-- unknown D60LF with S50

-- New 40 and 60' Nova LFS

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

Nice photos and videos. Denver & Salt Lake City are some of the major systems overlooked by busfans for reasons that are unknown. Even I haven't made it out there yet.

I have been wanting to go to Sale Lake City for years now! Someday...

[Andru]

From the RTD website:

• Request for Proposal (RFP) No. 12FK002 is seeking proposals from qualified firms to provide 45’ Intercity Buses (47 each) (With Additional Option of 105 each) was issued Jan. 27, 2012. Proposals were received by Contracts and Procurement, RTD, 1600 Blake St., Denver Colorado 80202 until 2:00 p.m. prevailing local time on Friday April 20, 2012. Two proposals were received: Motor Coach Industries, Inc. (MCI) and DesignLine USA. Two proposals were received: Motor Coach Industries, Inc. (MCI) and DesignLine USA. Award to Motor Coach Industries, Inc. (MCI) has been approved by the Board of Directors.

Did RTD ever receive the two Designline buses that were due for delivery sometime last year?

[TheAverageJoe]

From the RTD website:

Did RTD ever receive the two Designline buses that were due for delivery sometime last year?

It says that MCI got the order

[Andru]

I think this is a different order. The Designline order I am referring to was for 2 custom buses (plus options) for the 16th Street Mall shuttle, not something MCI would have bid on.

[Mr.Transit]

Yes, the RTD did receive the prototype...I sent an e-mail to them earlier this year...they mentioned that they were going run it in revenue service on their 16th St. Mall shuttle...also, weeks later there was a photo showing the passenger side of the bus on their website...they wanted passenger's imput on how they like the bus...I hope this info is helpful.

[2044]

Some photos posted on Skyscraper City.

[Andru]

Thanks for the info guys. It will be interesting to see whether these units perform well enough for RTD to exercice the options.

[Ramirez]

Saw an Ex-RTD cutaway in Long Beach, California earlier in the morning, it was operating for Diversfield shuttle services, it still had its paint scheme on it

[Dr. Casca]

Just got back from a month in Boulder, CO which gave me a chance to document the Denver RTD. It's a pretty comprehensive and well-maintained system, with some nice fleet diversity too.

Nice photos and videos. Denver & Salt Lake City are some of the major systems overlooked by busfans for reasons that are unknown. Even I haven't made it out there yet.

I'm trying to plan a short trip to Denver sometime this year, and I'm hoping to get pics and videos of this system, which has IMHO been long overlooked by many fans... I've always thought the RTD Fleet was just MCIs, NABI 436s, Orion Vs, and Phantoms, along with the MallRide buses. Didn't realize they still had Neoplans or that they had all those Gillig low floors. I do intend on hitting up their light rail, can't wait!

[A. Wong]

That bus looks longer than 40 feet long, is it?

[Bus_Medic]

Looks like 45' at least. Maybe 48'

[MAX BRT]

Looks like 45' at least. Maybe 48'

I agree. And its a beautiful bus! Definitely stands out in a crowd.

I had a lot of questions about the bus so I looked around and found this press release.

http://www3.rtd-denver.com/content/RTDNewsRelease/RTD%2016th%20Street%20Mall%20Shuttle%20Prototype%20Design%20NR%202011.pdf

The bus is a 45 footer. As mentioned its from DesignLine. It can hold 100 people. It is a prototype.

"The new design has a low floor from front to back, three large passenger doors and two panorama roof skylights that run the length of the bus. Passengers will have the option to sit or stand. The bus is powered by an all-electric drive train using state-of-the-art lithium ion batteries for energy storage. The batteries are used to power the electric motor, which drives the bus, and all accessories such as the air conditioner, power steering, and lighting. The batteries recover kinetic energy from the bus brakes via regenerative braking to extend range. The batteries are recharged by a 30kW micro-turbine that runs on biodiesel. The turbine shuts down when the battery charge is sufficient for operation. The bus will run on all electric drive operation part of the day, and can also be plugged in at night for recharging."

[Bus_Medic]

I hope it turns out better than New York's, but I have my doubts.

[MAX BRT]

I hope it turns out better than New York's, but I have my doubts.

This DesignLine hybrid definitely has something to prove. This website http://gothamist.com...not_good_en.php

says that the NY MTA buses had a 30KW turbine (sounds identical) and it "did not provide enough power to operate in regular passenger service in a multitude of conditions." If they have not made significant improvements I would expect the same result.

[A. Wong]

How much ridership does a free mall shuttle get compared to a New York City Bus though?

That service has always operated a zero-emission bus I think. That being said, I'm pretty sure I heard past models weren't all that reliable.

[Bus_Medic]

I think it was a sort of home made cng powered series hybrid previously.

[smallspy]

How much ridership does a free mall shuttle get compared to a New York City Bus though?

Enough that they have a 36 bus fleet for a 3 and a half mile route with 90 second headways. Seems like quite the service.

I think it was a sort of home made cng powered series hybrid previously.

To call them "home made" is correct but also a bit of a misnomer. RTD started a wholely-owned manufacturer called TransTeq to build the buses for them. I can't quite trace the history, but it appears that they either became, or had their some of their patents/trademarks purchased by Proterra.

Dan

[MAX BRT]

This DesignLine hybrid definitely has something to prove. This website http://gothamist.com...not_good_en.php

says that the NY MTA buses had a 30KW turbine (sounds identical) and it "did not provide enough power to operate in regular passenger service in a multitude of conditions." If they have not made significant improvements I would expect the same result.

A Wong got me thinking. If the mall route is flat and the ridership never approaches the buses capacity, it may do just fine.

Or if its route does not require it to suddenly accelerate when it is already up to speed, that could be a huge factor as well. Does that sound right?

[bradfordbrian]

Low speed operation (usually 15-20mph). The bus gets full to crush load fairly frequently. I would concern myself more with the strength of the brakes, and they will need some form of noisemaker so people don't get plowed over by inattention.

The only weakness I would guess would be if they decided to order them with A/C for the passenger compartment. The TransTeq's only have A/C for the driver.

[MAX BRT]

DesignLine won a Denver RTD order for 32 mallride buses. RTD liked the prototypes well enough but there is concern about long-term reliability.

http://www.denverpos...ews/ci_22429151

Menten cited problems the company has had with its buses in some cities, including New York and Baltimore, as reason for the delay. "I have a great concern about this company," she said.

Another new board member, Judy Lubow, said it appeared RTD was rushing into an agreement with DesignLine because it is one of the few companies in the United States that designs mall shuttles. "It seems like we are taking who we can get," Lubow said.

But RTD officials said they have investigated DesignLine and found their past problems have been resolved. Two prototype buses are currently being used on the mall and they have better maintenance records than the TransTeq vehicles, they said.

"Our experience with these two vehicles have been very positive," said Abel. "DesignLine has given us the vehicles we asked for."

The DesignLine buses are 45 feet long and have three wide passenger doors to speed loading and unloading, said Abel.

[MAX BRT]

I'm a little confused by this press release. It sounds like Denver is not retiring their CNG mallride hybrids yet.

I'm confused because we know they have ordered replacements from DesignLine already.

http://uqm.com/newsandevents/2013/04/04/uqm-technologies-receives-order-to-refresh-powerphase-components-in-denver-rtd-hybrid-buses/

UQM Technologies, Inc. (NYSE MKT: UQM) and the Denver Regional Transportation District (RTD) announced today that UQM will begin a refurbishment program on the generators and motor controllers used in the agency’s fleet of hybrid buses. The original units being refurbished far exceeded their expected life and this program will allow additional running time for the fleet of buses, which operate seven days a week in downtown Denver.