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Automated Fare Boxes for Winnipeg

WpgBusDriver

By WpgBusDriver
in Manitoba

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MVTArider

MVTArider

Posted
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Likely something like eRide or Transit eCard or something boring like that. I don't know... it feels like it's still a long way out.

A simple name like WinniGo or WinniRide might be good, but yeah considering their beautifully unimpressive current livery for the XD40, it probably is something like The Bus Card :rolleyes:

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DavidW

DavidW

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Well, another University year has begun without U-Pass. It looks like U-Pass will be no earlier than September 2016 (which is what Transit Tom predicted). Most of the students who voted for it will have graduated by the time it's implemented.

I presume the implementation of U-Pass is tied to the electronic fare media project. Transit isn't even bothering to make public statements about that anymore...

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DavidW

DavidW

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There was an article on the Winnipeg Free Press yesterday (Wednesday 16 Sep 2015) which reported 'introduction of the Smart Card fare system is being pushed back to "early 2016."'

It was promised for October 2013, and has been pushed back several times. This time even the Free Press put quote marks around the new date, as if they thought it was not believable.

I wonder when the public (or city council) are going to come to the conclusion that there is a wider systemic problem at Transit...

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DavidW

DavidW

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Smart cards could (finally) be ready for Winnipeg Transit by summer: report
Staff still working through tech glitches, city says

By: Stephanie Taylor
Metro
Published on Wed Mar 02 2016

A report headed to Thursday's finance committee shows the city expects to complete field-testing on the program by spring, and start a staged public rollout by early summer.
[...]
Once ready, staff say smart cards will be introduced to passengers in phases, beginning with Handi-Transit, seniors, youth, full fare, eco-pass and post-secondary riders.

Note that the quoted text indicates that the system is not yet ready...

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DavidW

DavidW

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The new fare card is here.  And it's called  Peggo!

Winnipeg Transit 'Peggo' smart cards finally ready

Seniors can start using cards in July; other transit users have to wait until August

By Bartley Kives, CBC News Posted: Jun 10, 2016 9:44 AM CT Last Updated: Jun 10, 2016 2:00 PM CT

 

Winnipeg seniors can start using the cards on July 4. They'll be offered to full-fare riders and youths on Aug. 8.

 

winnipeg-transit-peggo-cards.JPG

 

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DavidW

DavidW

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On 6/10/2016 at 9:09 PM, WpgBusDriver said:

Wonder what the back up plan is in case of system crashes/glitches/etc??

Good question.  When a single farebox glitches rides on the affected bus are free.  Hard to say what they'll do if the whole system falls over.

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BusRider

BusRider

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Sounds delicious!

kicproductimage-123236_equ_c_egw_hs_3d_f

 

Joking aside, this is great news! The ability to reload the card online will come in very handy! No more trips in -30 trying to cross Pembina Hwy to get to Macs to buy bus tickets.

 

1 minute ago, DavidW said:

Good question.  When a single farebox glitches rides on the affected bus are free.  Hard to say what they'll do if the whole system falls over.

Doing some reading on the Winnipeg Transit website. The fareboxes aren't in constant communication with the transit base, so the a complete system shutdown is unlikely. 

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BusRider

BusRider

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Got my Peggo card the other day! Winnipeg is finally caught up! I like the ability to track the card usage online which includes bus route and fleet number. There does seem to be a one day delay on the info and Transit Control seemed to be checking with operators to see if fareboxes received some sort of update when the buses are parked at night. That might be part of what's included in that.

(Edit: To answer the question above. It seems the eCash is just like regular cash. When you tap your card it gives you a timed transfer on the card. So I would assume if the farebox wasn't accepting the Peggo cards, it would be similar to if there was a coin jam or some situation where you couldn't get a transfer. You would pay on the next bus.)

28982659601_4996f67bf8_z.jpg

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BusRider

BusRider

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Yesterday I boarded 185 at Osborne Station with bus 533. It went out of service at Stradbrook @ Harkness Station after going through Osborne Village. I look today on my card history and 533 showed up as doing an 19. Something to do with the InfoDev? Just checked Transit's website and it seems the 185's in the afternoon tend to do different routes after getting downtown.

http://winnipegtransit.com/en/timetables/20250?booking=current&schedule_type=weekday

(With that link, select a time, and in the box that pops up select "Next Trip")

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DavidW

DavidW

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Made a disturbing discovery today. I bought my Peggo card back in September 2016 and I initially bought a 28-day pass.  Since then I have continued to buy 28-day passes through the Peggo online webpage, each time several days before the previous 28-day pass was to expire.

Today I found the link online to display my pass history... It seems that when I bought a new 28-day pass it was activated on boarding the next day, often wiping out the several days remaining on the current 28-day pass. Since September 2016 I've lost 14 days of paid pass time. 

I've complained to 311 and am awaiting a response from Transit. It appears to me that there is a big bug in the Peggo software...

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wt_enthusiast_photos

wt_enthusiast_photos

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27 minutes ago, DavidW said:

Made a disturbing discovery today. I bought my Peggo card back in September 2016 and I initially bought a 28-day pass.  Since then I have continued to buy 28-day passes through the Peggo online webpage, each time several days before the previous 28-day pass was to expire.

Today I found the link online to display my pass history... It seems that when I bought a new 28-day pass it was activated on boarding the next day, often wiping out the several days remaining on the current 28-day pass. Since September 2016 I've lost 14 days of paid pass time. 

I've complained to 311 and am awaiting a response from Transit. It appears to me that there is a big bug in the Peggo software...

Hmm that's is very interesting thanks for sharing 

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DavidW

DavidW

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On 31/07/2017 at 0:08 PM, LilZebra said:

Not a very reliable box, IMHO.

I've heard the most frequent problem is the transfer printer malfunctioning, especially jamming.

I gather from what I'm told that there aren't a lot of choices on the market for electronic fare boxes, especially if you want coin handling too. In keeping with Winnipeg Transit's risk adverse philosophy they'd want something with a proven track record too. (Winnipeg Transit is the opposite of an early adopter.)

I don't know how tied to these particular fare boxes the peggo programming is. My understanding is that most of the programming was done locally (rather than buying an off-the-shelf system) so it's probably a nightmare to change fare boxes now.

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LilZebra

LilZebra

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CTV Winnipeg
Peggo Card Problems for Winnipeg (sic) Woman
http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/video?cli...ylistPageNum=1

Seems like a database problem to me, where WT is reusing what should be Unique ID for each card.

In database theory, NEVER EVER use the same database ID...else the above happens.

It should be...

1 John Smith,
2 Mary Smith,
3 Shorty Smith,

What WT seems to be doing is...

1 John Smith
1 Mary Smith
2 Shorty Smith

Can't have that.

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DavidW

DavidW

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11 hours ago, LilZebra said:

CTV Winnipeg

Peggo Card Problems for Winnipeg Woman

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/video?cli...ylistPageNum=1

 

Seems like a database problem to me, where WT is reusing what should be Unique ID for each card.

In database theory, NEVER EVER use the same database ID...else the above happens.

You're quite right.  There should never be duplicate keys in a database. If they've programmed it in a way to allow that then they are in very big trouble.  Most database software shouldn't allow it but there's always a way for a bad programmer to what they should never do. If this is the case then they've got a corrupt database and there may be almost no way to fix it. (In the test phase you flush the data , fix the programming error, and test again.  You can't do that with a production system with real money at stake.)

There are also some other possibilities.  Data entry errors for one, in that when a cardholder asks for some problem to be fixed someone gets the peggo card number wrong and the "fix" goes against the wrong record. Typos (and data entry that doesn't catch typos) are a more common problem resulting in corrupt data.

It seems like the processing of online sales sometime fails. I would guess they're scrambling to process these transactions manually.  Who knows how easy it is to make mistakes in their manual recovery process.

I wonder with the card cancellations if perhaps there is some automated routine that combs the database for errors and automatically cancels cards for which the transaction data looks wrong. It may be far more picky about what's valid or not than the processes (auto or manual) that are putting the data there.

It all sounds like potentially quite a mess.

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LilZebra

LilZebra

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Quote

CBC Manitoba

Wed. Sep. 13, 2017

Transit union urges Winnipeg to part with Peggo cards

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/transit-peggo-problems-1.4285809

Winnipeg Transit officials also said they've fixed a glitch that prevented Peggo credits that were purchased online from getting transferred to the cards themselves.

"When you purchase something online, that product that you've bought — that pass or that cash — has not yet actually made its way to your card," explained said Kirk Cumming, Winnipeg Transit's information-systems manager. 

"What happens is that all your purchases are transferred to buses overnight in the garage, so that the next time you get on a bus, that product is actually transferred to your card.  It's that process that has experienced a problem."

The transit union also blames the Peggo system for creating disputes between riders and drivers. While Winnipeg Transit initially instructed bus drivers to confiscate defective Peggo cards, the union advised drivers to simply allow passengers with defective cards to ride for free," said Everett Rudolph, acting executive vice-president for ATU 1505.

 

 

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