TransLink Future - Dream's and Aspirations

[8010]

I've been exploring and toying around with ideas for rapid transit solutions along King George Boulevard and 104th Avenue. While I don't necessarily think I have the perfect solution, I believe this solution could work well and provide much-needed service in the South of Fraser area. Out of all the alternatives that have been studied by TransLink, I believe that a network of RapidBus and Express routes along King George Boulevard and 104th Avenue will provide the necessary capacity to meet the demand beyond 2050 while extending the reach of existing frequent express services and providing new and improved connections to/from the Expo Line, Newton, and Guildford with the help of transit priority measures.

While Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) and RapidBus provide similar services, RapidBus is more cost-effective due to the lack of required reserved lanes and other bus priority measures needed to operate a true BRT system, which allows for additional services to be implemented in order to reduce overcrowding and congestion, while improving travel times and connections. Additional transit priority measures will most likely be required in order to ensure routes traveling along these corridors keep moving. An extension of the Expo Line from the vicinity of King George Station to Newton Exchange is currently being explored by TransLink. While this option provides better access and connections to the existing SkyTrain network, as well as improving travel times, this option is very costly and will most likely have operational constraints by adding a third branch to the Expo Line (once the extension(s) to Fleetwood and Langley are complete), potentially impacting the maximum capacity of the Expo Line. Additional stops along both of these corridors can easily be added in the future when demand rises.

 

Possible Routes: 

• R1 Guildford/Newton via 104th Avenue, Surrey Central, and King George Boulevard (same route with reduced frequency).

• R1A Surrey Central/Carvolth Exchange via 104th Avenue, Guildford Exchange, and Highway 1.

• R1B Surrey Central/White Rock Centre via King George Boulevard, Newton Exchange, South Surrey Park & Ride, and 152nd Street.

• Surrey Central/Coquitlam Central Express via 104th Avenue, Guildford Exchange, 156th Street, Highway 1, and Lougheed Highway.

• Surrey Central/Haney Place Express via 104th Avenue, Guildford Exchange, Highway 1, Golden Ears Way, Maple Meadows Station, and Lougheed Highway.

• Surrey Central/Scottsdale Exchange Express Option 1 via King George Boulevard and 72nd Avenue.

• Surrey Central/Scottsdale Exchange Express Option 2 via King George Boulevard and 64th Avenue.

• Surrey Central/Cloverdale Express Option 1 via King George Boulevard, Newton Exchange, 72nd Avenue, 152nd Street, and Highway 10 (could be extended to Langley).

• Surrey Central/Cloverdale Express Option 2 via King George Boulevard, Newton Exchange, and Highway 10 (could be extended to Langley).

• Surrey Central/Cloverdale Express Option 3 via King George Boulevard, Newton Exchange, and 64th Avenue (could be extended to Langley).

• Surrey Central/Ladner Exchange Express via King George Boulevard, Newton Exchange, Highway 10, and Dewdney Trunk Road.

• Surrey Central/White Rock Centre Express via Morgan Crossing and Peace Arch Hospital.

• Surrey Central/White Rock Centre Express via Ocean Park.

• Surrey Central/Fleetwood Express via 104th Avenue, Guildford Exchange, and 152nd Street (could be extended to Newton or White Rock).

 

I might make a map to better show the routes and possible stop locations.

[Zortan]

On 12/31/2019 at 9:14 AM, 8010 said:

If the 257 was to become a RapidBus route sometime in the future these are the changes that I think should happen:

New RapidBus Route - new frequent, limited-stop service traveling between Downtown and Horseshoe Bay, service would run every 8 min during peak and every 10-12 min off-peak

Route 250 - discontinue service between Dundarave and Horseshoe Bay, reduce frequency to every 10-12 min all day, every day

Routes 253 & 254 - discontinue service between Park Royal and Downtown, convert to Community Shuttles

Route 257 - discontinue and replace with new RapidBus service

Route 260 - new route traveling between Park Royal and Horseshoe Bay via Marine Dr, service would run every 20-30 min all day, every day and use standard 40-foot buses

 

Proposed RapidBus Stops:

• Dunsmuir St @ Cambie St (Stadium - Chinatown Stn)

• Georgia St @ Granville St (Vancouver City Centre Stn & Granville Stn)

• Georgia St @ Burrard St (Burrard Stn)

• Georgia St @ Denman St

• Marine Dr @ Park Royal Shopping Centre

• Marine Dr @ 14th St

• 15th St @ Mathers Ave

• Highway 1 @ Headland Dr (future)

• Horseshoe Bay Ferry Terminal

 

Obviously the RapidBus stops between Park Royal and Horseshoe Bay are unlikely due to NIMBYs, which is why the route could possibly travel via Taylor Way and Highway 1 instead. Future stop at Headland Dr is possible but not very plausible, I thought I'd put it there as a potential improved connection to Caulfield.

This is actually a great plan - I really like it! A few thoughts / notes just from my observations:

The Vancouver/Dundrave (current 250a) service maybe should run a little more frequently. 10-12 minutes combined with 8-12 on the RapidBus means that frequencies might not be super great. Currently, service runs between Park Royal and downtown every 1-5 minutes during rush hour. I'd say increase this 250a service to allow for a similar, if not higher frequency.

I cannot speak for 253 ridership, as I've never ridden it past Park Royal, but the 254 definitely shouldn't be a community shuttle. There have been times when I've been on that bus and it's had all seats taken before arriving to Park Royal from the British Properties. There are definitely emptier runs, but overall I'd say the loads are enough for a 40-foot.

I really like your idea for the Rapidbus - and while I agree that NIMBYs would make the 14 and 15 street, as well as the Headland stops difficult, those would be super cool to see. While the bus could run by Taylor way, it would then be taking a bunch of passengers off the 254, while currently those traveling to the 257 stops on Marine and 15th just tend to take the 257 instead of the 251 already.

Just a few of my thoughts on it, but overall I really love this idea!

[8010]

3 hours ago, Zortan said:

This is actually a great plan - I really like it! A few thoughts / notes just from my observations:

The Vancouver/Dundrave (current 250a) service maybe should run a little more frequently. 10-12 minutes combined with 8-12 on the RapidBus means that frequencies might not be super great. Currently, service runs between Park Royal and downtown every 1-5 minutes during rush hour. I'd say increase this 250a service to allow for a similar, if not higher frequency.

I cannot speak for 253 ridership, as I've never ridden it past Park Royal, but the 254 definitely shouldn't be a community shuttle. There have been times when I've been on that bus and it's had all seats taken before arriving to Park Royal from the British Properties. There are definitely emptier runs, but overall I'd say the loads are enough for a 40-foot.

I really like your idea for the Rapidbus - and while I agree that NIMBYs would make the 14 and 15 street, as well as the Headland stops difficult, those would be super cool to see. While the bus could run by Taylor way, it would then be taking a bunch of passengers off the 254, while currently those traveling to the 257 stops on Marine and 15th just tend to take the 257 instead of the 251 already.

Just a few of my thoughts on it, but overall I really love this idea!

Thank you for for your input on the ideas I shared, I'm glad that you like the overall concept. My reasoning/response for some of the things you've mentioned:

Route 250 - I agree that the frequency could be increased a bit, however, my main reasoning behind the reduction in service is that I assume people traveling between Downtown and Park Royal (as well as 14th Street) would choose to take the faster, more frequent RapidBus that uses artics instead of 40-footers.

Route 253 - I've taken this route a couple times and once it passes Park Royal the bus is about half-full or emptier for the rest of the trip and overall ridership is pretty low, which is why I suggested the conversion to shuttles.

Route 254 - similar reasoning as the 253, plus it looks like in the Phase 2 plan TransLink wants to improve the directness of routes 254 & 256. I assume that they're going to be using the proposed changes in the North Shore Area Transport Plan, which includes the conversion to shuttles (there's no mention of frequency increases but I would assume some increases in service might be necessary), as well as restructuring both routes to provide two-way service in Britsh Properties and Whitby Estates.

[Zortan]

4 minutes ago, 8010 said:

Thank you for for your input on the ideas I shared, I'm glad that you like the overall concept. My reasoning/response for some of the things you've mentioned:

Route 250 - I agree that the frequency could be increased a bit, however, my main reasoning behind the reduction in service is that I assume people traveling between Downtown and Park Royal (as well as 14th Street) would choose to take the faster, more frequent RapidBus that uses artics instead of 40-footers.

Route 253 - I've taken this route a couple times and once it passes Park Royal the bus is about half-full or emptier for the rest of the trip and overall ridership is pretty low, which is why I suggested the conversion to shuttles.

Route 254 - similar reasoning as the 253, plus it looks like in the Phase 2 plan TransLink wants to improve the directness of routes 254 & 256. I assume that they're going to be using the proposed changes in the North Shore Area Transport Plan, which includes the conversion to shuttles (there's no mention of frequency increases but I would assume some increases in service might be necessary), as well as restructuring both routes to provide two-way service in Britsh Properties and Whitby Estates.

Yeah - I simply sugested the service increase on the 250 just because of the frequency gap that not having it would create. Additionally, the stop spacing on the RapidBus is pretty large (which is ofc the goal haha), but that does make it difficult for things like the distance between Denman and Burrard - a high-density area, and a really large gap between those two stops means that people living at say the Broughton Street stop will have to either walk all the way down to Denman or all the way up to Burrard, both of which are decently far away. So that's where the 250 would come in. Although I totally understand that a lot of passengers would be connecting from Vancouver City Centre, Granville, Stadium-Chinatown or Burrard Stations, so the RapidBus is definitely a better idea for them.

Having a more direct 254 would be so awesome, so honestly if they split it in two or something and then did shuttles I wouldn't mind especially since traffic is typically for either one half or the other going to or from PR/Downtown. However, If they switch to shuttles I'd certainly hope for a frequency increase (which in turn could bring more passengers, which would be awesome as well).

[8010]

26 minutes ago, Zortan said:

Having a more direct 254 would be so awesome, so honestly if they split it in two or something and then did shuttles I wouldn't mind especially since traffic is typically for either one half or the other going to or from PR/Downtown. However, If they switch to shuttles I'd certainly hope for a frequency increase (which in turn could bring more passengers, which would be awesome as well).

These are the proposed route changes mentioned for the 254/256. Personally I'd rather see the 254 travel to Dundarave from 15th Street rather than making a loop between Park Royal and British Properties as it would provide a more direct connection between Dundarave, 15th Street, and British Properties.

[Zortan]

39 minutes ago, 8010 said:

These are the proposed route changes mentioned for the 254/256. Personally I'd rather see the 254 travel to Dundarave from 15th Street rather than making a loop between Park Royal and British Properties as it would provide a more direct connection between Dundarave, 15th Street, and British Properties.

Still quite an improvement

For me - I travel to the eastern side of the British Properties (near where the route name changes from British Properties to Vancouver / Park Royal), so having a more direct route over there would be super nice, especially in the afternoons when I've had to ride all the way around

[8010]

It's definitely a pretty big improvement over the service that's currently provided. The trip towards British Properties will be a lot shorter for you since you wouldn't be going through the long and windy western half of British Properties. I've taken the full route myself a couple years back and that first half of the trip took forever.

[8010]

I'm just gonna put this here because I doubt it'll ever happen, but I think TL should keep all-door boarding on all routes after the COVID-19 pandemic is over.

[8010]

A few RapidBus route concepts I've been working on:

 

SE Marine Drive:

Peak: 6 min, Off-Peak: 10 min

Stops:

• Marine Drive Station

• SE Marine Dr @ Main St

• SE Marine Dr @ Fraser St

• SE Marine Dr @ Knight St Bridge

• SE Marine Dr @ Victoria Dr

• SE Marine Dr @ Elliott St

• SE Marine Dr @ Kerr St

• Sawmill Cr @ River District Crossing

• Marine Way @ Byrne Rd

• 22nd Street or New Westminster Station

 

Cambie Road (Possible Richmond to Expo Line):

Peak: 6 min, Off-Peak: 10 min

Stops:

• Bridgeport Station

• Garden City Rd @ Capstan Wy

• Cambie Rd @ Garden City Rd

• Cambie Rd @ No. 4 Rd

• Cambie Rd @ Shell Rd

• Cambie Rd @ No. 5 Rd

• Cambie Rd @ Jacombs Rd

• No. 6 Rd @ Mayfield Pl

• Hwy 91 @ Westminster Hwy

• Hwy 91A @ Howes St

• 22nd Street Station

 

Three Road:

Peak: 10 min, Off-Peak: 12-15 min

Stops:

• Brighouse Station

• No. 3 Rd @ Granville Ave

• No. 3 Rd @ Blundell Rd

• No. 3 Rd @ Francis Rd

• No. 3 Rd @ Williams Rd

• No. 3 Rd @ Steveston Hwy

• Steveston Hwy @ No. 4 Rd

• Steveston Hwy @ Shell Rd (future)

• Steveston Hwy @ No. 5 Rd

• Steveston Hwy @ Hwy 99

• Ladner Exchange or Riverport

[8010]

I think the RapidBus branding is pretty lazy and not very distinctive from the other bus services, so I made a list of features I would like to see implemented to existing and future RapidBus routes to make the brand look and feel more like a Bus Rapid Transit service:

Stops:
• Distinct, well-lit RapidBus-branded shelters with benches and leaning rails
• Compass ticket vending machines
• Improved real-time electronic bus information displays (LED)
• Raised platforms with platform edge strips
• Fast and Frequent Transit Network maps
• Trash and recycling receptacles
• Bike lockers and/or racks
• CCTV cameras

Buses:
• 100% green livery (the green and blue do not go well together IMO)
• Distinctive interior vehicle design
• Updated high-back seating design and padding to improve customer comfort
• USB charging ports at all seats
• 3-slot bike racks
• Color-coded seats for priority seating
• Passenger information displays that show all stops along the route

Street Improvements:
• Transit signal priority

[dover5949]

3 hours ago, 8010 said:

I think the RapidBus branding is pretty lazy and not very distinctive from the other bus services, so I made a list of features I would like to see implemented to existing and future RapidBus routes to make the brand look and feel more like a Bus Rapid Transit service:

Stops:
• Distinct, well-lit RapidBus-branded shelters with benches and leaning rails
• Compass ticket vending machines
• Improved real-time electronic bus information displays (LED)
• Raised platforms with platform edge strips
• Fast and Frequent Transit Network maps
• Trash and recycling receptacles
• Bike lockers and/or racks
• CCTV cameras

Buses:
• 100% green livery (the green and blue do not go well together IMO)
• Distinctive interior vehicle design
• Updated high-back seating design and padding to improve customer comfort
• USB charging ports at all seats
• 3-slot bike racks
• Color-coded seats for priority seating
• Passenger information displays that show all stops along the route

Street Improvements:
• Transit signal priority

Hate to word is this way, but dream on as it won't happen. Translink has no money & with them bleeding $85M a month that will not happen for several years if you're lucky?

[8010]

8 hours ago, dover5949 said:

Hate to word is this way, but dream on as it won't happen. Translink has no money & with them bleeding $85M a month that will not happen for several years if you're lucky?

I don't expect it done tomorrow, but I don't think it's much to ask to make RapidBus a more unique service over the current slightly improved B-Line service they gave us, I mean Rapid is in the name. I know it's going to take TL time to recover from their funding shortfall (between $120 million to $885 million according to TL's 4 recovery scenarios) in 2020/21.

[Express691]

Skip to 0:46 for the good stuff, if you are in a hurry

 

[dover5949]

This whole garage prefix letting is a failure & just a make work project for someone. If this program is suppose to mean anything, then why are the XDE 60's in STC & PCTC, XN40's in STC running around with no prefix or with a HTC prefix & some of the XDE60's in BTC running around with a RTC Prefix. If this was suppose to mean anything or be of importance they would've been updated by now. I think it's a complete failure & a waste of resources as well as money to print these decals!

[Community Shuttle]

1 hour ago, dover5949 said:

This whole garage prefix letting is a failure & just a make work project for someone. If this program is suppose to mean anything, then why are the XDE 60's in STC & PCTC, XN40's in STC running around with no prefix or with a HTC prefix & some of the XDE60's in BTC running around with a RTC Prefix. If this was suppose to mean anything or be of importance they would've been updated by now. I think it's a complete failure & a waste of resources as well as money to print these decals!

I think it's a holdover from the days when buses were numbered and constantly renumbered in a very complex manner by specific sets according to TC (e.g. 9xxx for Poco or something like that). Someone decided that there should still be a way to identify the TC a bus is stationed at when they switched to permanently assigned numbers. They really should have done away with it if buses would end up being frequently transferred.

[Zortan]

On 4/7/2020 at 1:01 PM, 8010 said:

SE Marine Drive:

Peak: 6 min, Off-Peak: 10 min

Stops:

• Marine Drive Station

• SE Marine Dr @ Main St

• SE Marine Dr @ Fraser St

• SE Marine Dr @ Knight St Bridge

• SE Marine Dr @ Victoria Dr

• SE Marine Dr @ Elliott St

• SE Marine Dr @ Kerr St

• Sawmill Cr @ River District Crossing

• Marine Way @ Byrne Rd

• 22nd Street or New Westminster Station

I was just thinking of putting in something like this, but then saw your idea. I really like it tbh, and honestly prefer it to some of the other ideas that have been thrown around for new RapidBuses such as the 20 or something like that. A couple changes / additions I would make personally:

• Extend to Marpole Loop instead of just Marine Drive Station, yes ridership is lower, but it still provides important connections imo. Maybe even extend to Dunbar from Marpole, but that would be a stretch for sure. For the Marpole extension I think it would make sense to have stops at  Oak St and then at the loop itself
• I would modify the 29 to continue down to Marine drive on Elliot St, just for easier connections and the like, and maybe the same with the 20, although that one is a bit closer
• I would keep the 100 running for local service, maybe running every 15 minutes or so, similar to how the 41 operates these days, I guess.
• I would think that it would be a good idea to get a bus route that goes all the way down Kerr to Marine for better connections.
• I might also add a stop at Marine Way + Boundary for connections to the 116
• I'm not sure what your plan would be for once the bus reaches Byrne Road in terms of where it would go to reach a SkyTrain Station - personally I think it would make the most sense to head up Byrne and onto Marine Drive (maybe with a stop at Marine Dr + Byrne, although of course that would be more confusing name-wise at least, and then those two stops would be pretty close to each other, which isn't so good on RapidBus) and then to 22nd St Station.

I also really like the idea of putting it on Marine Way instead of Drive in order to serve the River District, which I think could definitely work really well.

[8010]

1 hour ago, Zortan said:

I was just thinking of putting in something like this, but then saw your idea. I really like it tbh, and honestly prefer it to some of the other ideas that have been thrown around for new RapidBuses such as the 20 or something like that. A couple changes / additions I would make personally:

• Extend to Marpole Loop instead of just Marine Drive Station, yes ridership is lower, but it still provides important connections imo. Maybe even extend to Dunbar from Marpole, but that would be a stretch for sure. For the Marpole extension I think it would make sense to have stops at  Oak St and then at the loop itself
• I would modify the 29 to continue down to Marine drive on Elliot St, just for easier connections and the like, and maybe the same with the 20, although that one is a bit closer
• I would keep the 100 running for local service, maybe running every 15 minutes or so, similar to how the 41 operates these days, I guess.
• I would think that it would be a good idea to get a bus route that goes all the way down Kerr to Marine for better connections.
• I might also add a stop at Marine Way + Boundary for connections to the 116
• I'm not sure what your plan would be for once the bus reaches Byrne Road in terms of where it would go to reach a SkyTrain Station - personally I think it would make the most sense to head up Byrne and onto Marine Drive (maybe with a stop at Marine Dr + Byrne, although of course that would be more confusing name-wise at least, and then those two stops would be pretty close to each other, which isn't so good on RapidBus) and then to 22nd St Station.

I also really like the idea of putting it on Marine Way instead of Drive in order to serve the River District, which I think could definitely work really well.

I appreciate your comments on the RapidBus and local route changes. If you check out my map below you'll see that I've got majority of the local route changes you mentioned, right now I'm trying to figure out a better solution for routes 31, 116, and 146 (118 on map) when it comes to connecting to River District. You may want to filter out NightBus routes when using the map because I just started working on those routes last week and right now it looks like a bit of a mess.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1WEjh1N0bnU_mzweeO2wG9MS2duHzy5GJ&usp=sharing

[8010]

My map is about 85-90% complete, COVID definitely gave me lots of time to research and refine quite a bit on the map. One thing I would like to focus my attention to in the coming days is the "Possible Routes, Reroutes, Exchanges, and Service Areas" section as there are some routes/reroutes with multiple possible routings, and there are some routes that I am still trying to determine whether they would work well with the overall network or not, plus I would like to get that section off my map ass soon as possible. NightBus routes are pretty much the last thing on my to-do list as I would like to complete the regular bus network before focusing on late-night service, which is why the routes are all pretty much just straight lines for now.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1WEjh1N0bnU_mzweeO2wG9MS2duHzy5GJ&usp=sharing

 

Highlights of Updates:
• Updated route destinations to better reflect the street or area the routes are serving (ex. 406 Railway Avenue - To Brighouse Station/To Steveston Exchange, 338 North Fraser Heights - To Guildford Exchange/To Carvolth Exchange)
• Updated express route descriptions to include all stops along the route (RapidBus routes are not included)
• There are currently 309 bus routes on the map, each running every 30 minutes or better during their hours of operation
• Currently updating station and exchange descriptions to outline possible upgrades

Upcoming Updates:
• Improving route descriptions to include hours of operation and different off-peak periods including early morning, midday, evening, late night, and weekends (it's assumed that Saturday and Sunday schedules would be the same)
• NightBus routes
• Determine the best option for a West Coast Express extension
• Determine best options for possible future SkyTrain lines and extensions

[InfiNorth]

On 10/15/2020 at 9:22 AM, 8010 said:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1WEjh1N0bnU_mzweeO2wG9MS2duHzy5GJ&usp=sharing

I have one comment about Langley - your service has the same massive problem that current-day service has in Langley: It all goes to Langley Centre. This serves only the commuter. One of the biggest pet peeves that myself and everyone I knew had (I grew up in Langley) was that there wasn't one continuous 200th St North-South route, that you had to transfer in the dirthole that is Langley Centre. The fact that you can't easily get to the Willowbrook area (which is the "real" centre of Langley) from most parts of town outside of Downtown Langley is a big problem. Also, speaking from a Langley perspective, no one who lives in High Point would ever go near a bus, and no one outside of High Point wants to be able to get to High Point by bus. I mean, go ahead, it's a great thing to have extensive service, but it simply would not be used. Ever. Similarly to how I've never once in five years of living in Victoria seen someone get on a bus within the Uplands neighbourhood. 

For the Langley area, from an "insider's" perspective, all I can say is that the routing needs to stop veering to the east around Downtown Langley - that's the biggest flaw with the system within Langley as it currently exists. That and the lack of North-South service on 200th Street that actually serves the Willowbrook core area (between 64th and Fraser Highway). I've bookmarked this! 

 

PS - I didn't notice any school specials, I am guessing you haven't made any for this. 

[Zortan]

3 hours ago, InfiNorth said:

I have one comment about Langley - your service has the same massive problem that current-day service has in Langley: It all goes to Langley Centre. This serves only the commuter. One of the biggest pet peeves that myself and everyone I knew had (I grew up in Langley) was that there wasn't one continuous 200th St North-South route, that you had to transfer in the dirthole that is Langley Centre. The fact that you can't easily get to the Willowbrook area (which is the "real" centre of Langley) from most parts of town outside of Downtown Langley is a big problem. Also, speaking from a Langley perspective, no one who lives in High Point would ever go near a bus, and no one outside of High Point wants to be able to get to High Point by bus. I mean, go ahead, it's a great thing to have extensive service, but it simply would not be used. Ever. Similarly to how I've never once in five years of living in Victoria seen someone get on a bus within the Uplands neighbourhood.

IMO having an empty bus is better than no bus at all. I don't know the area and I know I sound way too optimistic but sometimes people learn to do good things like take the bus ;)

[8010]

13 hours ago, InfiNorth said:

I have one comment about Langley - your service has the same massive problem that current-day service has in Langley: It all goes to Langley Centre. This serves only the commuter. One of the biggest pet peeves that myself and everyone I knew had (I grew up in Langley) was that there wasn't one continuous 200th St North-South route, that you had to transfer in the dirthole that is Langley Centre. The fact that you can't easily get to the Willowbrook area (which is the "real" centre of Langley) from most parts of town outside of Downtown Langley is a big problem. Also, speaking from a Langley perspective, no one who lives in High Point would ever go near a bus, and no one outside of High Point wants to be able to get to High Point by bus. I mean, go ahead, it's a great thing to have extensive service, but it simply would not be used. Ever. Similarly to how I've never once in five years of living in Victoria seen someone get on a bus within the Uplands neighbourhood. 

For the Langley area, from an "insider's" perspective, all I can say is that the routing needs to stop veering to the east around Downtown Langley - that's the biggest flaw with the system within Langley as it currently exists. That and the lack of North-South service on 200th Street that actually serves the Willowbrook core area (between 64th and Fraser Highway). I've bookmarked this! 

 

PS - I didn't notice any school specials, I am guessing you haven't made any for this. 

My reasoning behind having most of the routes end at Langley Centre is that most people transfer between other routes at Langley Centre, regardless of whether it's commuters or local transit users. Plus I assume a lot more people would be travelling to Langley Centre with the Expo Line. I thought having a route going down to High Point would make more sense 30 years down the line rather than the abrupt end in Fernridge that the 563 currently does, and I do like the idea of an extensive transit network. I tried to have all routes serve a transit exchange to reduce the number of transfers between routes for a lot of people, and I don't think a single transfer is unreasonable in most cases. I currently have all routes running every 30 minutes or better throughout the day (or during peak times if it's a peak-only route) to reduce wait times for people who are just waiting for one bus or transferring from one bus to another.

Would rerouting the 501 along 200th Street and 56th Ave, and 531 along 200th Street and Willowbrook Drive sort of alleviate your issue with connections to the Willowbrook area? I was also considering rerouting the 320 along Willowbrook Drive, 200th Street, and Fraser Highway to make an easier connection between Willowbrook Station, Willowbrook area, and Langley Centre.

I'm not a big fan of school special routes when majority of them are just duplicator routes that don't add anything to the overall network. I've pretty much filled in those service gaps with new routes or rerouted routes, most of them are shuttle routes but I assume if the demand is high enough they would either swap a shuttle out with a 40-footer or add a 40-footer trip.

[InfiNorth]

16 hours ago, Zortan said:

IMO having an empty bus is better than no bus at all. I don't know the area and I know I sound way too optimistic but sometimes people learn to do good things like take the bus

Drop a streetview pin in High Point - it's pretty easy to gauge the socio-economic status of the people that live there. Pretty much on par with the anti-RapidBus protesters at the other end of the transit system. 

 

6 hours ago, 8010 said:

My reasoning behind having most of the routes end at Langley Centre is that most people transfer between other routes at Langley Centre, regardless of whether it's commuters or local transit users. Plus I assume a lot more people would be travelling to Langley Centre with the Expo Line. I thought having a route going down to High Point would make more sense 30 years down the line rather than the abrupt end in Fernridge that the 563 currently does, and I do like the idea of an extensive transit network. I tried to have all routes serve a transit exchange to reduce the number of transfers between routes for a lot of people, and I don't think a single transfer is unreasonable in most cases. I currently have all routes running every 30 minutes or better throughout the day (or during peak times if it's a peak-only route) to reduce wait times for people who are just waiting for one bus or transferring from one bus to another.

My main concern is that many people from Brookswood and the Fernridge-corner of Langley head up to Willowbrook for shopping. And by "many" I mean "pretty much all but I haven't done a statistical survey so I can't say for sure." Having a schedule in place that all the buses on one of the routes from Brookswood always continued as a bus on one of the Willowbrook-bound routes would alleviate that somewhat.

6 hours ago, 8010 said:

Would rerouting the 501 along 200th Street and 56th Ave, and 531 along 200th Street and Willowbrook Drive sort of alleviate your issue with connections to the Willowbrook area? I was also considering rerouting the 320 along Willowbrook Drive, 200th Street, and Fraser Highway to make an easier connection between Willowbrook Station, Willowbrook area, and Langley Centre.

Back when the 531 was first running (when I was in high school), it seemed like a miracle that a bus would go down 200th street to Brookswood. I believe it continued that route right up until I graduated, when it started stupidly going past Costco and over the overpass like literally every other bus in Langley... completely bypassing the main area that people need to get to in the shopping area of Langley. Who is taking the bus to Costco? Sure, let me hop on with my palette of Kirkland coffee. In terms of traffic flow, I don't blame TransLink for avoiding 200th in Willowbrook. Between the 8-lane nightmare by the mall and the railway crossing, it is some of the worst traffic design I've ever seen in or around Vancouver. Regardless, it's a corridor that needs service if any of that traffic is ever going to disappear.

6 hours ago, 8010 said:

I'm not a big fan of school special routes when majority of them are just duplicator routes that don't add anything to the overall network. I've pretty much filled in those service gaps with new routes or rerouted routes, most of them are shuttle routes but I assume if the demand is high enough they would either swap a shuttle out with a 40-footer or add a 40-footer trip.

Me neither, I consider them a bit of a problem. However, your upgraded system map has provided a drop in service for the highschool I attended - RE Mountain Secondary - along 202 Street. No, it's not a big deal, and no, I have literally no solution for it as 202A as it stands is not in need of better service (or any service). Even when I was in high school, I generally sprinted to 200th St. and caught the bus there instead of waiting for the somewhat inconveniently timed once-a-day 501 reroute.(which arrived a full half-hour after school ended back in 2012).

EDIT: Also, I noticed a lot of rural routes that terminate at TWU. Even disregarding issues with that university in the first place, it really isn't currently or ever going to be a major transit hub. Those buses should logically continue down Glover Road into Langley proper.

[Zortan]

13 minutes ago, InfiNorth said:

Drop a streetview pin in High Point - it's pretty easy to gauge the socio-economic status of the people that live there. Pretty much on par with the anti-RapidBus protesters at the other end of the transit system.

Haha, I see what you mean. There's always gonna be some demand though I'm sure. For example, the 254 goes through one of the most extreme areas in terms of NIMBYism and extreme wealth, however it can actually have somewhat decent ridership, especially during peak hours. Sure, it may not be the residents of the houses that take the bus, but the construction workers, babysitters, etc. are a good source of ridership in West Van anyway.

[InfiNorth]

26 minutes ago, Zortan said:

Haha, I see what you mean. There's always gonna be some demand though I'm sure. For example, the 254 goes through one of the most extreme areas in terms of NIMBYism and extreme wealth, however it can actually have somewhat decent ridership, especially during peak hours. Sure, it may not be the residents of the houses that take the bus, but the construction workers, babysitters, etc. are a good source of ridership in West Van anyway.

I always find the wealthy anti-transit Nimbyism interesting. In Victoria, our only remaining intact streetcar loop is dead centre in the middle of the wealthiest neighbourhoods in the city, and the developers specifically wanted the line brought in because it would make the wealthy want to live there. How times have changed. 

[8010]

On 10/20/2020 at 1:56 PM, InfiNorth said:

My main concern is that many people from Brookswood and the Fernridge-corner of Langley head up to Willowbrook for shopping. And by "many" I mean "pretty much all but I haven't done a statistical survey so I can't say for sure." Having a schedule in place that all the buses on one of the routes from Brookswood always continued as a bus on one of the Willowbrook-bound routes would alleviate that somewhat.

Back when the 531 was first running (when I was in high school), it seemed like a miracle that a bus would go down 200th street to Brookswood. I believe it continued that route right up until I graduated, when it started stupidly going past Costco and over the overpass like literally every other bus in Langley... completely bypassing the main area that people need to get to in the shopping area of Langley. Who is taking the bus to Costco? Sure, let me hop on with my palette of Kirkland coffee. In terms of traffic flow, I don't blame TransLink for avoiding 200th in Willowbrook. Between the 8-lane nightmare by the mall and the railway crossing, it is some of the worst traffic design I've ever seen in or around Vancouver. Regardless, it's a corridor that needs service if any of that traffic is ever going to disappear.

Me neither, I consider them a bit of a problem. However, your upgraded system map has provided a drop in service for the highschool I attended - RE Mountain Secondary - along 202 Street. No, it's not a big deal, and no, I have literally no solution for it as 202A as it stands is not in need of better service (or any service). Even when I was in high school, I generally sprinted to 200th St. and caught the bus there instead of waiting for the somewhat inconveniently timed once-a-day 501 reroute.(which arrived a full half-hour after school ended back in 2012).

EDIT: Also, I noticed a lot of rural routes that terminate at TWU. Even disregarding issues with that university in the first place, it really isn't currently or ever going to be a major transit hub. Those buses should logically continue down Glover Road into Langley proper.

The only solution I can think of right now for direct connections between Fernridge, Brookswood, and Willowbrook would be to reroute the 513 along Langley Bypass to Willowbrook, people connecting to Langley Centre could take another route or transfer to the 503 or 504, which would have a combined frequency of every 15 minutes between Langley Centre and Fraser @ Pinegrove.

I've added my suggested reroutes for 320, 501, and 531 to the map. My main issue though is that the 501 no longer provides a direct connection to Willowbrook Exchange, however it is still within the vicinity so I think it should be fine.

I suppose with regards to service connecting to RE Mountain the 501 could be rerouted along 80th, 202A, and 72nd back to 200th Street as the area along 200th between 80th and 72nd is pretty dead. However, some people would lose direct-ish access to transit and would have to walk an extra 500 metres to reach their bus, and my only solution to that would be to add a RapidBus stop on 200th @ 76th, but again that area is pretty dead so I don't see putting a RapidBus stop there making a whole lot of sense.

I made a transit exchange at TWU mainly because Glover Road doesn't need more service and routes 524 and 525 are already long enough without the added route required to connect to either Carvolth or loop back down to Langley Centre, although one could argue some of the other shuttle routes on my network are longer than the two said routes. I don't imagine the exchange to be anywhere near as big as an exchange like Carvolth, probably something closer to the scale of Edmonds.

I'm trying to avoid thinking about NIMBYs when it comes to my map because they usually don't even know what they're talking about when it comes to transit, the truncation of R2 from Dundarave to Park Royal is a clear example.