Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I'm pretty sure YRT in North York, Ontario uses this sort of monitoring on their buses (MOBILefficiency, I believe), and I think TTC does (?) with VISION. 

28 minutes ago, MAX BRT said:

As an off-topic aside, I hope that this kind of monitoring will reduce rough driving. I know I've noticed as a bus passenger that certain driver's accelerate and brake abruptly and it makes for an unpleasant ride for the passenger.

Its a pretty subjective topic, but I find there are drivers who are just bad at driving, and drivers who want to maintain or avoid falling behind their schedule. The first group are operators who just don't know how to operate a vehicle properly. Things like continuous mashing of the accelerator in quick stabs, hitting the brakes too hard, little regard for the safety of traffic behind them, violent steering inputs (may as well add curb scrubbers) classify, for me, as just subpar driving skills. Subpar and frustrating.

If you operate on a busy route in a busy city, its different. You do need to accelerate hard, and moderate your braking (not abrupt, I'd say firm) and combine a variety of other factors if you want to maintain a schedule. Simple seconds lost in pulling out or slow driving can pile up over time and accumulate into a large delay. If we're gonna argue that hard acceleration and moderated braking are unsafe or rough, then why bother with a schedule? Being in a packed bus is also rough and uncomfortable. (I'm not attacking MAX, for the record lol; I totally get his opinion)

Again, its my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree with it; but frankly speaking, a manufacturer's shortfalls should not have to take a toll and/or drastically change one's driving style. That's for the manufacturer to fix, not the operator. Drivers are trained for a reason. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/16/2020 at 3:18 PM, Someguy3071 said:

Why are you comparing a Tesla Model S launching in ludicrous mode to a bus accelerating to speed of traffic? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

It is very reasonable for a bus to do heavy acceleration to get up to speed. And yes different drivers will drive a bus in a different ways. That's why testing needs to be done to determine the range when driven hard. This will account for all different driving styles. I'm talking about practical not theoretical range. 

The comparison is that there can be a very large spread in what the potential ranges are of a vehicle, and that both ends of that range can be realistic.

 

The point of using the Tesla example is to show that the spread can be vast. In a transit vehicle - or any commercial vehicle, for that matter - the spread won't be nearly as great for a number of different reasons (not the least of which is that the various parameters and settings of the systems will be set with an eye towards longevity, not performance).

 

 

On 2/16/2020 at 3:18 PM, Someguy3071 said:

When I drive a bus I don't care if it's a hybrid or diesel. I get in and I drive. We have some buses that stay out for close to 24 hours and they'll be driven from 3 to 6 different drivers. Every driver can drive the crap out of that bus and it will make it to the end without running out of fuel. Now granted these electric buses won't be staying out for 24 hours but if you have to start limiting how you drive to get close to advertised range, then it's an inferior product for the job.

Which is why they are set up the way that they are. A Cummins engine can be tuned for a far, far greater horsepower number than what you see in an application such as a transit bus. (And in fact, there are versions of the same Cummins engine that have different - and higher - horsepower ratings for different applications, such as fire trucks and military.)

 

But going back to the electric bus issue, while I agree that advertising a range that can only be reached in absolutely optimal situations isn't exactly a good indication of what the vehicle is really capable of, the fact of the matter is that EVERYONE does this. (And not just with EVs, but also with ICE-equipped vehicles.) And until such a point that there happens to be some sort of standardized testing that accurately represents what the vehicles are capable of, this will continue to be the case.


Dan

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DB8996A7-9B78-4659-8568-373C541D81B3.thumb.png.84a9c14a6778e8572ed6ef601854b07f.png

wow wow wow would you look at that, 

 

sure BYD makes “the best buses ever” for Long Beach Transit, LADOT, and the AVTA I’ll give them that but really it seems that some how and in some way they just cannot do BRT routes, the just can’t, Denver RTD says it’s expensive for their mall buses, ABQ ride  canceled their orders for their BRT buses, and now Indy go for a couple of buses but looks as if now from the evidence I discovered from a local Indiana news site, these buses are a controversy.

Unfortunately or fortunately  Indygo is going to run 40ft EV buses probably from BYD but hey interesting stuff

D9A348CA-BD62-4F33-A3F9-B5873EEC65A0.png

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/4/2020 at 12:04 AM, Samtransxmuni said:

wow wow wow would you look at that, 

sure BYD makes “the best buses ever” for Long Beach Transit, LADOT, and the AVTA I’ll give them that but really it seems that some how and in some way they just cannot do BRT routes, the just can’t, Denver RTD says it’s expensive for their mall buses, ABQ ride  canceled their orders for their BRT buses, and now Indy go for a couple of buses but looks as if now from the evidence I discovered from a local Indiana news site, these buses are a controversy.

Unfortunately or fortunately  Indygo is going to run 40ft EV buses probably from BYD but hey interesting stuff

 

Denver RTD says it's expensive because of demand changes from the electricity supplier. Stick a New Flyer or Proterra or any other electric bus into Denver and you'll have the same problem.

As for IndyGo, they actually run 60' BYD's. Now, I suspect in general the 60' BYD's are the biggest culprits not meeting range promises. I suspect it's a case of diminishing returns as you have more bus to move, which means more batteries, which means more weight, which means more batteries. For depot charging buses, like BYD's, I suspect that there's a sweet spot with current technology with bus weight/ length/ range that doesn't work out as well with 60' buses.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The New Flyer XE60s just ordered for Seattle are quoted as having a range of 140 miles. That doesn't sound like it can provide more than an 8 to 10 hour block. But at least everybody is being upfront about it and KC Metro knows what to expect and will be drawing up schedules to accommodate the low range.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Toronto’s experience with XE40 range has fallen short of even those adjusted expectations.

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bus_Medic said:

Toronto’s experience with XE40 range has fallen short of even those adjusted expectations.

As you know, the range in winter will be significantly lower than in the other 3 seasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

Toronto’s experience with XE40 range has fallen short of even those adjusted expectations.

9 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

Oh, it’s significant alright.

Could you give some details, please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...