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Canada Line

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So I ride SkyTrain pretty much every day to work and I've loved buses for most of my life, and I'll usually go out of my way to try something new. For a variety of reasons I just hadn't gotten around to riding the Canada Line. I took a spin on it today, and I've got to say ... WOW.

I'm impressed super smooth ride, comfortable seats, and open airy cars. Too bad they messed the whole program up by not anticipating demand, because this is way better that SkyTrain from a riders perspective. Too bad it's all underground LOL.

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Yeah, it doesn't help that they cancelled literally a dozen bus routes that used to go straight downtown forcing a kajillion commuters onto that thing.

It took a lot of restraint to not swear/rant in this post.

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Well I lived in Ladner for a while and used to take the bus from there. As much as I do like the Canada Line, I'd rather ride one of those Orion V suburbans. Such a comfortable bus.

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Yeah, it doesn't help that they cancelled literally a dozen bus routes that used to go straight downtown forcing a kajillion commuters onto that thing.

I guess that is the same everywhere. ETS did the same thing as the LRT progressed, in order not to duplicate service. It did some good, but not without a mess-up here and there. There are always repercussions whenever something like this happens. What makes me laugh is that management will point to the LRT and say that the ridership is WAY up, when it's the same old riders - only redistributed somewhat.

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Vancouver did a better job than ETS, IMO. The LRT doesn't seem that awesomely linked with the bus system. While Vancouver has gone transfer crazy (a seperate issue) the system is absolutely fantastic for getting people to rapid transit without much effort.

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Vancouver did a better job than ETS, IMO. The LRT doesn't seem that awesomely linked with the bus system. While Vancouver has gone transfer crazy (a seperate issue) the system is absolutely fantastic for getting people to rapid transit without much effort.

Well, I would probably word things differently, and say that Translink has put in every efforts to ensure everyone has no choice but to squish everyone onto the Canada Line! I think if we were to conduct a survey targetted at commuters from South Surrey, Delta or even Steveston in Richmond, a lot of people would probably prefer the alternative routes that are now cancelled because of Canada Line.

Dave

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The real 'bottleneck' is the bridge between Bridgeport Station and Marine Drive. Buses go Downtown from Marine Drive - albeit a little slower than the Canada Line, but there is no bus service to downtown from Bridgeport, and likewise there is no bus service to the south of the Fraser from Marine Drive.

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The buses are just feeders for canada line as they are in surrey and new westminster, burnaby ect for skytrain

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I rode that line on opening day, and a year ago. The Canada line is so under built....I couldn't believe the system was built with such short platforms. Calgary's Ctrain was also under built, and now Calgary has spent billions to accommodate 4 car trains (1 Ctrain car about 80' long) Edmonton's LRT was built to maximum spec, 5 car trains thinking 30-40 years into the future, back in the 70s

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Yeah. I don't find the interior design either.. At rush hours there are little pockets of space that cannot fit people into..

And yeah, I live on #2 Road and without the 492 I now need to take 402, Canada Line, and 41 to get to where I get every day..

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk

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Could a mid-section be spliced into the Canada Line cars, to give them some extra capacity? The platform lengths allow for that. Also, does the airport-bound crowd contribute significantly to rush-hour congestion?

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The canada line cars were designed so that if need be, they could add in a 10 meter center car. Looking a lot like they're going to have to add it.

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Sorry for bumping this thread, but I came across some article claiming the Canada Line was unnecessary, and I found it actually pretty interesting to think about.  If they hadn't built it, and instead had bought more buses to put on the 98, and made a 15 Cambie Express, would that be enough to cover the ridership of the Canada Line?  Furthermore, would it, in fact, have been a better option?  Ridership would be dispersed among the now-cancelled routes, and we'd still have the commuter routes that used to go into downtown.  But the CL is still so full already, that I can hardly imagine having enough buses to cover it.  Maybe it'd have been fine in 2009 but 2016 is pushing it and it'll just get worse.  I've passed up 3 trains before, and today a few passengers were left on the platform at Oakridge-41st at 8 PM...

Of course, this could've probably all been avoided by just building the CL the right way in the first place, lol.  But it's still fascinating to think of what it'd be like if it hadn't been built at all.  I like to imagine a parallel universe in which this actually occurred, and they built the Broadway extension instead.  I wonder if people would call that unnecessary too, and then people in the parallel universe would post on CPTDB saying, "what if they built the RAV line instead of the Broadway extension?"

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If we didn't have the Canada Line then...

it would still take around 40-45 minutes to go from Richmond Centre to downtown, SoF buses would crawl across the Oak Street Bridge, and lots of the people who switched to Canada Line over the travel time benefits would still drive. My commutes to Marpole would probably take longer with more congestion than there is today on Marine Dr. and Marine Gateway wouldn't have been built so I wouldn't be able to do movies or T&T shopping after work....

A Broadway extension + Evergreen Line would be pretty great, but then we'd be facing the potential pitfalls of an overcrowded Expo Line from Commercial to downtown with no Canada Line alternative to relieve the pressure....

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That's true, the huge decreases in travel time is one thing that can't be denied (aside from the few people who once only had to take a single bus).

I wonder what else could be done to make Canada Line more tolerable, until we get the new trains.  If the 15 was more frequent, I would probably consider taking it more often.  It's a nice route and doesn't take too long to get from Oakridge-41st to Marine. Potentially the 17 too but it takes quite a bit longer and no one seems to ride it to the terminus anyway.  I wonder if there'd be a chance of an express bus going southbound through Vancouver and terminating at Marine, and if so, which street would be most appropriate.  I mean, not that traffic would allow that anyway, but hypothetically.  :lol:

I know a few people who would chime in here advocating for the 98 B-Line, and I would agree if we had the buses, lol.  The cancellation of that route was certainly an interesting decision, considering it's on an entirely different street than the CL, but I assume TransLink needed the buses elsewhere and Granville was close enough to Cambie anyway.

Great point about how many more people would be at Commercial-Broadway if there was Broadway skytrain and no CL.  Given how busy that station already is, I can just imagine the crowds for WB trains.  That pretty much seals it that CL was a good thing, despite the mistakes made.

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Dang, this is almost like AlternateHistoryHub.

Also makes me wonder if a nonstop express from S.Delta or W.Rock will have been feasible because I would imagine Vancouverites south of the city limits would often get passed up.

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On 6/18/2016 at 5:12 AM, 8800GTX said:

If we didn't have the Canada Line then...

it would still take around 40-45 minutes to go from Richmond Centre to downtown, SoF buses would crawl across the Oak Street Bridge, and lots of the people who switched to Canada Line over the travel time benefits would still drive. My commutes to Marpole would probably take longer with more congestion than there is today on Marine Dr. and Marine Gateway wouldn't have been built so I wouldn't be able to do movies or T&T shopping after work....

What are SoF buses - South of Fraser? Might we still have trolley buses on Cambie?

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2 minutes ago, Mark Walton said:

What are SoF buses? Might we still have trolley buses on Cambie?

311, 351, 352, 354, 601, 602, 603 604 all those route went from South of Fraser to Downtown. Yes there would be Trolley bus on Cambie and even today if we want could still put trolleys buses on Cambie with 15 and 50 becoming trolley routes. 

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  • The 40m platforms and short trains.
  • Single spurring the end of the line en-route to Richmond Brighouse which will prevent further expansion down to Blundell or Steveston.
  • Different technology .
  • Stupid projections that were way off.

Only been 7 years and we're already having to add more trains to address demand. Many people knew it would be problematic from the beginning.

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6 minutes ago, GoCanGo said:
  • The 40m platforms and short trains.
  • Single spurring the end of the line en-route to Richmond Brighouse which will prevent further expansion down to Blundell or Steveston.
  • Different technology .
  • Stupid projections that were way off.

1. The platform can be expand to 50m platforms. We could add a third car to each train.

2. I believe they can addition track Richmond Brighouse.

3. Do not how this effects the Canada line?

4. Agreed but ridership seems to be hard to predict. 

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Cheese given your love for proposing the firings of everyone I thought you'd be right on this. The Canada Line was first funded for longer platforms, more trains, longer trains, double track for the whole system and more crossovers. The budget was starting to go over, and then the initial budget was cut during construction. The outcome of these two things is the done-in-a-hurry mass transit system which is detrimental to the overall transit network. 

 

This addition of cars is really exciting news. Hopefully we see the RFI get posted very quickly! 

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On 2016-06-23 at 4:19 PM, GoCanGo said:
  • The 40m platforms and short trains.
  • Single spurring the end of the line en-route to Richmond Brighouse which will prevent further expansion down to Blundell or Steveston.
  • Different technology .
  • Stupid projections that were way off.

Only been 7 years and we're already having to add more trains to address demand. Many people knew it would be problematic from the beginning.

The projections were off on purpose, in my opinion.  And are in many different cities wanting to build subways (or "skytrains").  They are based upon the opinion of the people who make them, with those in support making the ridership higher than is realistic and those opposed making it significantly lower.

I was just in Toronto for 3 weeks, and had an interesting discussion with a cousin-in-law who works for the HSR.  I chatted with him about both the Hamilton LRT and the TTC subways/LRTs.  First, he said that the LRT is absolutely needed, and in his position, he can see that since all the buses that come off of King routes have full fareboxes compared to the other routes.  But the people opposed to the project are making up excuses such as "oh there are many empty King buses now, why waste money on an LRT", etc. etc.  Of course, there are other arguments too, but that's a pretty big one.  As for the TTC, he felt that the LRT decisions were absolutely wrong and that they will pay for those decisions, like our underbuilding of the Canada Line, in 3 or 4 years from opening, if not sooner.  He said once Councillors get a project in their mind, based on whatever benefits there are for them, they will make up all the facts to fit it.  Like trying to say that Sheppard has no ridership, or that Eglinton isn't worthy of LRT, nor is Finch.  Ha ha.  But I've pretty much given up on those kinds of debates with my friends there since they don't understand, and will just have to pay the price later, and regret it.

So we are now regretting the decisions about the single-tracked Canada Line into Richmond (Airport was probably ok to do that), and the short trains and short stations.  It's pretty much the "if you build it they will come" thing, which is true for almost all projects.  The only thing I'm actually surprised didn't happen with the Canada Line was for it to be cut "short" at, say, Broadway or King Edward for phase 1, then having phase 2 cancelled "since nobody's riding it".  Well, duh.  Nobody would ride it since it doesn't go anywhere (a la Sheppard subway in Toronto).  This is happening with the Broadway subway by cutting it short at Arbutus.  If that happens, I will say with 99% certainty that the extension to UBC will never happen since the ridership past Cambie will be so low that the powers that be will be itching to cut the funding to it.

Oh well, rant over.  But my point is that these are all political decisions made solely to help the individual causes, and not based on any facts or real information.

On 2016-06-23 at 4:30 PM, Blue Bus Fan said:

1. The platform can be expand to 50m platforms. We could add a third car to each train.

2. I believe they can addition track Richmond Brighouse.

3. Do not how this effects the Canada line?

4. Agreed but ridership seems to be hard to predict. 

1. Not easily.  See Bridgeport and tell me how easy it would be.  Switches on both ends.  Many other stations, particularly those underground would be the same.

2. Nope, not anymore, unless they put it over top of Three Road.  There is a condo on the other side of the platform now, right up against the building.

3. I think you are referring to the different technology, which doesn't affect the Canada Line, per se.  I don't personally have a problem with it being a different technology since that happens in other systems from time to time, based on what is available at the time.  Sure, it would be nice to have it fully integrated, but not the end of the world.

4. Ridership is not hard to predict if some simulation and modelling techniques are used...  (see above).

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The underground stations already have the platform extensions hollowed out and walled off. Every station is either already 50m or can be expanded to 50m for cheaply. Which allows for 60m trains no problem. Why 60? 5 metre overhang at each end.

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14 hours ago, Opal said:

1. Not easily.  See Bridgeport and tell me how easy it would be.  Switches on both ends.  Many other stations, particularly those underground would be the same.

2. Nope, not anymore, unless they put it over top of Three Road.  There is a condo on the other side of the platform now, right up against the building.

3. I think you are referring to the different technology, which doesn't affect the Canada Line, per se.  I don't personally have a problem with it being a different technology since that happens in other systems from time to time, based on what is available at the time.  Sure, it would be nice to have it fully integrated, but not the end of the world.

4. Ridership is not hard to predict if some simulation and modelling techniques are used...  (see above).

1. The stations are designed to be expanded to 50 ft. 

2. The city should have allowed them to build their to allow the Canada line to be double track. I feel like their would be enough room to run a double track that doesn't require going along Three Road. 

3 and 4: Ok. 

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