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What I indirectly was trying to show is that a lot of traits that are desirable or undesirable can simply be the result of how an agency specs their buses, and, even indeed how they purchase their bus

My job RideKC got their first electric bus a couple of weeks ago. Still not in service yet. 

Care to explain a bit more? I'm all for people having their own opinions, but, just simply saying that something sucks doesn't cut it. You say the suspension sucks. Why? How does it compare to other b

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Note that NYC MTA requires an exclusive "shaker test" for its buses, and the Gillig LF/BRT has never been through that test before. Gillig probably feels it is not worthwhile to take a chance to win an order from the NYC MTA because of this requirement.

I heard that the New Flyer LFR did not pass the shaker test, which is why MTA continued to take the old style LFs until the Xcelsior which passed the test. It would probably be a miracle for the Gillig LF or BRT to pass.

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Note that NYC MTA requires an exclusive "shaker test" for its buses, and the Gillig LF/BRT has never been through that test before. Gillig probably feels it is not worthwhile to take a chance to win an order from the NYC MTA because of this requirement.

I heard that the New Flyer LFR did not pass the shaker test, which is why MTA continued to take the old style LFs until the Xcelsior which passed the test. It would probably be a miracle for the Gillig LF or BRT to pass.

Never heard that before. Would love to have verification of that somewhere.

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Never heard that before. Would love to have verification of that somewhere.

Are you referring to the shaker test requirement, or the statement that the New Flyer failed it? For the former, it is well known on forums such as Subchat and NYCTransitForums that MTA requires a shaker test for its buses; it was invented by the MTA and is not part of standard Altoona testing.

As for the LFR failing there was a post on NYCTransitForums that said that it failed.

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As for the LFR failing there was a post on NYCTransitForums that said that it failed.

Yeah, because NYCTransitForums is so well renowned for its knowledge....

In any case, I don't believe it for a second. If the D40LF made it, there's no reason why the LFR (or LFA, for that matter) wouldn't - it's the exact same vehicle with different fibreglass at the front and back.

Dan

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Are you referring to the shaker test requirement, or the statement that the New Flyer failed it? For the former, it is well known on forums such as Subchat and NYCTransitForums that MTA requires a shaker test for its buses; it was invented by the MTA and is not part of standard Altoona testing.

As for the LFR failing there was a post on NYCTransitForums that said that it failed.

I was referring to how the LFR failed and the LF didn't. It sounds like that could be right, not saying it isn't.

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Thats almost impossible for one to fail and the other to pass. Its the exact same bus. Cosmetics differences only. Its like saying a ford tempo passed a shaker test and a mercury topaz didnt.

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Thats almost impossible for one to fail and the other to pass. Its the exact same bus. Cosmetics differences only. Its like saying a ford tempo passed a shaker test and a mercury topaz didnt.

Well, it is possible that the methods to attach the endcaps of the buses to the body could be different which could make a difference. Attaching endcaps to buses isn't as simple as playing with Legos.

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Getting back to the Gillig discussion - there was a note in the CNYRTA (Syracuse NY) board meeting minutes that the authority is planning to use an option from the Akron OH agency's contract with Gillig for its next bus purchase. These would likely be the first Gillig CNG's in New York State.

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Getting back to the Gillig discussion - there was a note in the CNYRTA (Syracuse NY) board meeting minutes that the authority is planning to use an option from the Akron OH agency's contract with Gillig for its next bus purchase. These would likely be the first Gillig CNG's in New York State.

Loyal ex-Orion customer (correct?) lands with Gillig.

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Loyal ex-Orion customer (correct?) lands with Gillig.

Hmm, Centro is an agency that seems to shop around quite a bit. Their purchasing history for local buses over the past thirty years can be summed up below:

1984, 1987: Neoplan

1985, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1999, 2003, 2010, 2011, 2012: Orion

1997: NovaBus

2004, 2005: New Flyer

1991, 2007, 2008, 2009: Gillig

So, although most of Centro's orders (eleven years' worth) went to Orion, nine years' orders went to competitors.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Getting back to the Gillig discussion - there was a note in the CNYRTA (Syracuse NY) board meeting minutes that the authority is planning to use an option from the Akron OH agency's contract with Gillig for its next bus purchase. These would likely be the first Gillig CNG's in New York State.

Piggybacking off of a current contract is probably cheaper than issuing a new one to go out for bid. that's pretty interesting CNG GIlligs in Syracuse.

Hmm, Centro is an agency that seems to shop around quite a bit. Their purchasing history for local buses over the past thirty years can be summed up below:

1984, 1987: Neoplan

1985, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1999, 2003, 2010, 2011, 2012: Orion

1997: NovaBus

2004, 2005: New Flyer

1991, 2007, 2008, 2009: Gillig

So, although most of Centro's orders (eleven years' worth) went to Orion, nine years' orders went to competitors.

Well With Orion out of the picture, Order most likely will go to Gillig and New Flyer

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  • 3 weeks later...

I would like to know, does any TA besides Metro Transit in Minneapolis operate Gillig BRTs with low-mounted driver side mirrors? I know some of their early deliveries came with the standard high-mounted driver side mirrors, but these were replaced with low-mounted mirrors due to complaints from drivers, and all deliveries since then have come with the low-mounted mirrors.

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preface: I promise I won't continue my rant on the blind-spot issue the left mirror presents in this thread as I have in my “rant thread” about left mirrors :P

If you mean bottom-mounted left mirror as opposed to top-mounted, yes, many agencies use a bottom mount on a Gillig BRT. However, in my opinion, hardly any agency that I've noticed which uses a bottom-mounted left mirror mounts it low enough to get it out of the way to where it does not block the vision of a shorter driver or one who might sit lower in the seat.

The agency that I've noticed which comes close is Ann Arbor Transportation Authority's "The Ride" and is just about acceptable in my opinion (click here for an example of their Gillig BRT). They also mount the left mirror and use a similar sized mirror housing on their Gillig Advantages (click here) as KCM in Seattle uses on their Phantoms --click here. Kudos to AATA!

I believe that it is extra important for the left mirror to be mounted away from the driver's eye-height in Gillig coaches as they all have relatively thick A-pillars, especially the old Phantom. Their BRT uses that pesky double A-pillar configuration and the one closest to the driver is very thick with their first-generation Advantage low-floor seemingly having the best A-pillar design.

Just as an NFI rep told me, I'm thinking the specification process is the same at Gillig in that they will accommodate any left mirror size, brand, and mounting position that the customer specifies. A bus manufacturer will probably have a "standard" mirror configuration that they use for demo purposes but I still believe a customer can dictate the mirror vendor/manufacturer they want to use as well as the size of the mirror housing and where they want it mounted. If I'm wrong about this, I'd sure welcome to be corrected as I'm trying to gather as much information about left mirrors as I can.

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http://www.gillig.com/#!positions/cz6k

Gillig seems to be hiring and on of their proposed positions include the ability to develop new product while supporting old product. Could this mean that Gillig is secretly working on a new Transit bus to replace the current Advantage/BRT, or is it an improved version that uses low profile tires and a redesigned front end?

Well they are increasing capacity with the new plant so they will be looking at growing their business.

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http://www.gillig.com/#!positions/cz6k

Gillig seems to be hiring and on of their proposed positions include the ability to develop new product while supporting old product. Could this mean that Gillig is secretly working on a new Transit bus to replace the current Advantage/BRT, or is it an improved version that uses low profile tires and a redesigned front end?

Interesting. In a past thread I suggested that a next generation Gillig product should have reduced weight, a rooftop HVAC (except on CNG models), as well as taller windows in the low floor section (bottom lower).

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http://www.gillig.com/#!positions/cz6k

Gillig seems to be hiring and on of their proposed positions include the ability to develop new product while supporting old product. Could this mean that Gillig is secretly working on a new Transit bus to replace the current Advantage/BRT, or is it an improved version that uses low profile tires and a redesigned front end?

I think they are planning on building an artic.

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Interesting. In a past thread I suggested that a next generation Gillig product should have reduced weight, a rooftop HVAC

What would be the real advantage of a roof top HVAC? So they can have an option for a rear window? I would say the performance between the two options are minimal. I am good with the HVAC being in the rear, Especially for maintenance purposes. Lines ran from the engine and A/C compressor in the engine compartment don't have to travel as far. Plus changing filters is a lot easier from the rear rather than the ceiling especially when you have to do multiple buses in a shift. No step ladder needed to be carried around either. If some day they do offer an articulated bus, then I would understand the need for a roof top HVAC.

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  • 5 months later...

Just a random question... Does anyone know of any Gillig Low Floors out there with air starters? When NFTA requested for this option, Gillig was not too thrilled, but did it starting with the 2010 deliveries. Obviously this does not apply to the Allison Hybrids. Pictured below is a larger than normal ceiling box containing an extra air tank for the air starter.

608.JPG

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have to ask, why on gods green earth would they insist on air starters?

My authority (TTC) just retired the last series (7200s) that required air start.

I understand the advantages (quick recharge time, unlimited starter duty cycle)

But with modern cummins engines with preheat start, that's moot.

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Not sure what the reason was, I think it is just a preference... The last buses to have air starters previously were buses built in 1994, the first 60 D40's. No major problems with the electric starters since then. The current air starters sometimes get air leaks when in use, so they require maintenance from time to time.

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  • 3 months later...

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