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ABQ RIDE

Gillig product discussion

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12 hours ago, Chris H said:

St. Louis Metro is getting the similarly designed Gillig buses that VTA got, albeit electric versions.

https://allwheelsforward.com/st-louis-metro-partners-up-for-an-electrifying-future/

That is obviously a Photoshop, since the buses are not scheduled for delivery until 2020.  It's entirely possible that the actual buses could have standard headlights or even a BRT front.  

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On 9/13/2018 at 12:09 AM, doglover44 said:

What would you like to see different in the Gillig family ?

  • Update the standard body styling a bit, some rounded edges would probably make it less dull and boxy.
  • Redesign the frame/window lines a bit so the windows in the low floor section are a little lower
  • Tighten up or strengthen the interior assembly hardware so a typical unit doesn't rattle like a tin cup of change on rough roads (to be fair some of the rattling comes from the seats, equipment, and most low floor buses will inevitably have some rattling on rough roads, so I don't expect them to be silent)
  • Extend the front overhang a few inches, imagine adding 3" of space to the front door width and driver compartment
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On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 10:50 PM, MVTArider said:
  • Update the standard body styling a bit, some rounded edges would probably make it less dull and boxy.
  • Redesign the frame/window lines a bit so the windows in the low floor section are a little lower
  • Tighten up or strengthen the interior assembly hardware so a typical unit doesn't rattle like a tin cup of change on rough roads (to be fair some of the rattling comes from the seats, equipment, and most low floor buses will inevitably have some rattling on rough roads, so I don't expect them to be silent)
  • Extend the front overhang a few inches, imagine adding 3" of space to the front door width and driver compartment

Agreed, plus move the HVAC unit to the roof on diesel and hybrid units.  I don't know what exactly does Gillig have against roof-mounted HVAC units.

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15 hours ago, ABQ RIDE said:

Agreed, plus move the HVAC unit to the roof on diesel and hybrid units.  I don't know what exactly does Gillig have against roof-mounted HVAC units.

I assume they will eventually offer a roof-mounted A/C, as this seems to be where the industry is slowly headed. 

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18 hours ago, ABQ RIDE said:

I don't know what exactly does Gillig have against roof-mounted HVAC units.

Probably because it involves more plumbing and wiring, and thus more engineering.

 

Dan

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47 minutes ago, smallspy said:

Probably because it involves more plumbing and wiring, and thus more engineering.

 

Dan

But roof-mounted HVAC units are supposed to be more effective.  I think the pros outweigh the cons.

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28 minutes ago, ABQ RIDE said:

But roof-mounted HVAC units are supposed to be more effective.  I think the pros outweigh the cons.

Effective how? Because that’s certainly not my experience.

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On 9/17/2018 at 3:48 PM, ABQ RIDE said:

Agreed, plus move the HVAC unit to the roof on diesel and hybrid units.  I don't know what exactly does Gillig have against roof-mounted HVAC units.

What is the big deal about roof mounted AC? So far it seems to me that the only difference is some agencies prefer one over the other.

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On 5/10/2018 at 4:02 PM, neoartic7101 said:

KCATA/RideKC should be receiving new CNG standard buses this year to replace the rest of the 2300's and some of the 2400 series Gilligs they already have (and may replace the 2005 BRTs 3500-3512), wonder if they will receive this front cap.

The 2005 BRT's won't be replaced until next year when the new buses for the Prospect MAX get ordered, do it all at once.

The new Gillig's (4800-4819) replaced the rest of the 2003's (2300s) and most of the 2004's (2400s). KCATA has downsized it's large fleet greatly. The new 29 footers (S211-S228) replaced the 2007 buses (S130-S136) and many of the 2008 1 door 29 footers (S137-S159).
 

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One MTS contracted division is getting buses starting at 2781 but only 6 of them have been budgeted in the board. Rest of the money is going to an unknown vendor for FY19 for Commuter Coaches. 

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Going somewhat off of the previous talk about roof mounted A/C's, I kinda wish there were more Phantoms built with rear windows. They looked pretty cool except for the rear sign placement on the King County Metro & Monterey-Salinas units in my opinion. I would have preferred if they had the rear sign placed by the rear window inside the bus, similar to how SF Muni did it with the Neoplans & NABI's. There was a 3rd agency in New York with 2003 Phantoms with rear windows that didn't have that funky rear sign, however I believe most of those have unfortunately retired this year. Anyway, the 3 known agencies with rear window Phantoms all did not have A/C spec'd on them. I fancy what a rear window Phantom with rooftop A/C would look like... maybe kind of weird. I also really wonder what a Gillig Low Floor would have looked like with a rear window and or rooftop A/C.

This was Ex-MST 1119 at Zacher's Auto Salvage in SoCal on 12/29/16 (exactly 2 years ago, wow). Not sure if this one survived, but it did have a CA compliant exhaust and stuff gets resold all the time from here.

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Gillig has finally updated their website and moved things around a bit and added the Battery Electric bus option. They also changed how they categorize the bus styling and options and it looks much better in my opinion.

Also, the "Gillig LowFloor Plus" is now officially considered a styling option. This option is what the new Battery Electric buses are based off, but you can also order this option in Diesel, CNG, and Hybrid.

https://www.gillig.com/

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I agree, much better looking! I do wish they would update the exterior styling on their buses a bit though. The LF+ still looks cobbled together to me with the headlight modules obviously being the same as the BRT ones.

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On 9/13/2018 at 1:09 AM, doglover44 said:

What would you like to see different in the Gillig family ?

I would like to see gillig extend their engine options to more than just Cummins. That way transit operators can decide which engine will fit their needs.

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1 hour ago, chasbo2 said:

I would like to see gillig extend their engine options to more than just Cummins. That way transit operators can decide which engine will fit their needs.

Cummins has a monopoly on medium displacement engines. Gillig is powerless to change that.

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1 hour ago, Bus_Medic said:

Cummins has a monopoly on medium displacement engines. Gillig is powerless to change that.

Can someone explain the reasons behind this Cummins monopoly?  Thanks!

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3 hours ago, Buzz2kb said:

Can someone explain the reasons behind this Cummins monopoly?  Thanks!

There is not a large volume in transit bus engines, and it's expensive to engineer engines to meet emission standards while keeping the engine reliable in a transit application.  Detroit Diesel (now Mercedes) and Caterpillar pulled out of the Canadian and American transit bus market about the time emission requirements started getting difficult.  IIRC, Caterpillar now only makes off-highway engines.

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1 hour ago, AMG said:

There is not a large volume in transit bus engines, and it's expensive to engineer engines to meet emission standards while keeping the engine reliable in a transit application.  Detroit Diesel (now Mercedes) and Caterpillar pulled out of the Canadian and American transit bus market about the time emission requirements started getting difficult.  IIRC, Caterpillar now only makes off-highway engines.

Then what makes Cummins more successful than the other two?

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6 hours ago, Buzz2kb said:

Then what makes Cummins more successful than the other two?

They were able to keep up with the regulations first.

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8 hours ago, Buzz2kb said:

Then what makes Cummins more successful than the other two?

Cummins is an absolutely massive company that provides not only engines to the heavy-duty vehicle market, but also to the passenger vehicle and military segments.

 

Catarpillar is also a massive company but has largely serviced the off-highway markets and still flourishes there (indeed, many of their on-highway products are made by third parties and simply branded as Cat). They likely felt that the volumes required to service the on-highway market properly weren't worth it.


As for Mercedes? I don't know. Perhaps they too felt that the market segment was too small to be worth investing in.


Dan

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