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Gillig product discussion


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9 hours ago, Swadian said:

We have lots of Gillig LF/BRT here in Reno. Not very good vehicles from a rider's perspective.

That is too bad that Reno doesn't take care of their buses. Gillig LF are all great to me, they have all been very smooth and very well designed

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21 hours ago, MAX BRT said:

Why is that?

They tend to tilt a lot on turns, are quite loud, and operate very slow schedules. It may be poor maintenance. I rode the AC Transit Gillig LFs and they were a lot better.

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  • 2 weeks later...

To each his (or her) own, I suppose.

Me, I can't stand Gillig LFs. Their institutional appearance says a lot about what's wrong with US transit systems. "Oh, these aren't meant to be comfortable or attractive. We think of them more as trucks that carry passengers."

The interior design is particularly bad. In the low-floor part, the window line is so high that you have to crane your head up to see out. It feels like you're sitting in a bathtub. Many seating rows also conflict directly with a window post. So you get a decent seat in the raised part ("the gallery"), but you're staring right at a post instead of out the window.

I could go on...

I could probably deal with Gilligs if they weren't completely dominating almost every small and mid-size TA in the US. Canada should be thankful not to have them!

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6 hours ago, Border City Transit said:

To each his (or her) own, I suppose.

Me, I can't stand Gillig LFs. Their institutional appearance says a lot about what's wrong with US transit systems. "Oh, these aren't meant to be comfortable or attractive. We think of them more as trucks that carry passengers."

The interior design is particularly bad. In the low-floor part, the window line is so high that you have to crane your head up to see out. It feels like you're sitting in a bathtub. Many seating rows also conflict directly with a window post. So you get a decent seat in the raised part ("the gallery"), but you're staring right at a post instead of out the window.

I could go on...

I could probably deal with Gilligs if they weren't completely dominating almost every small and mid-size TA in the US. Canada should be thankful not to have them!

Ok, I guess you don't like a classic workhorse. I'll make an even longer list of NF's problems if you'd like, but this is Gillig discussion 

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6 hours ago, Border City Transit said:

To each his (or her) own, I suppose.

Me, I can't stand Gillig LFs. Their institutional appearance says a lot about what's wrong with US transit systems. "Oh, these aren't meant to be comfortable or attractive. We think of them more as trucks that carry passengers."

The interior design is particularly bad. In the low-floor part, the window line is so high that you have to crane your head up to see out. It feels like you're sitting in a bathtub. Many seating rows also conflict directly with a window post. So you get a decent seat in the raised part ("the gallery"), but you're staring right at a post instead of out the window.

I could go on...

I could probably deal with Gilligs if they weren't completely dominating almost every small and mid-size TA in the US. Canada should be thankful not to have them!

All those problems seems like how your TA spec'd them. Seats/seat height, windows, etc can be adjusted by Gillig. If the transit authority asks for a "Base" bus, you'll get a "Base" bus. 

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1 hour ago, OR Transit Fan said:

Ok, I guess you don't like a classic workhorse. I'll make an even longer list of NF's problems if you'd like, but this is Gillig discussion 

Well, hey... you like 'em, you like 'em. More power to you -- you'll certainly have no trouble finding Gilligs in the US!

I have extensive experience both riding and driving Gillig LFs, and find them inferior in both regards. I'll concede that Gillig much improved their quality in the 2000-2010 era, and there's certainly things they do right. Parts and aftermarket are very good.

Gillig LFs seem to be built -strictly- for maintenance. Obviously, that's a critical consideration. But there's been very little attention to the people who ride them and drive them. If we're trying to attract people to transit, the rider experience must count for -something-.

As an operator, I always found the Gillig LF cockpit to be cramped and unintuitively designed. Lots of obstructions to the natural flow of your hands, arms and left foot. When driving at night, the interior glare is/was waaaay worse than other buses. And for other reasons that I can't quite articulate, they were just never very fun to drive.

As a rider, the only word I can think of is "oppressive". From the angry-looking (standard) front to the oddly proportioned/apportioned interior cabin... it feels like an undeserved visit to the vice principal's office.

53 minutes ago, Gillig1109 said:

All those problems seems like how your TA spec'd them. Seats/seat height, windows, etc can be adjusted by Gillig. If the transit authority asks for a "Base" bus, you'll get a "Base" bus. 

I don't know. Seats, window opening style and window -tint- can be adjusted by spec. Window height and basic window frame config... I've never seen a Gillig LF with "lower" front-section windows to improve visibility (and I've seen a lot of Gilligs! <_<) The "bathtub effect" is part and parcel to the Gillig LF model, regardless of spec.

Look, these guys are obviously doing something right if they've achieved total dominance. I just find their product to ignore a lot of important factors -- and, by extension, to symbolize/encourage a line of out-of-touch thinking in the US transit biz.

Oh well!

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Border City Transit said:

 

Well, hey... you like 'em, you like 'em. More power to you -- you'll certainly have no trouble finding Gilligs in the US!

I have extensive experience both riding and driving Gillig LFs, and find them inferior in both regards. I'll concede that Gillig much improved their quality in the 2000-2010 era, and there's certainly things they do right. Parts and aftermarket are very good.

Gillig LFs seem to be built -strictly- for maintenance. Obviously, that's a critical consideration. But there's been very little attention to the people who ride them and drive them. If we're trying to attract people to transit, the rider experience must count for -something-.

As an operator, I always found the Gillig LF cockpit to be cramped and unintuitively designed. Lots of obstructions to the natural flow of your hands, arms and left foot. When driving at night, the interior glare is/was waaaay worse than other buses. And for other reasons that I can't quite articulate, they were just never very fun to drive.

As a rider, the only word I can think of is "oppressive". From the angry-looking (standard) front to the oddly proportioned/apportioned interior cabin... it feels like an undeserved visit to the vice principal's office.

I don't know. Seats, window opening style and window -tint- can be adjusted by spec. Window height and basic window frame config... I've never seen a Gillig LF with "lower" front-section windows to improve visibility (and I've seen a lot of Gilligs! <_<) The "bathtub effect" is part and parcel to the Gillig LF model, regardless of spec.

Look, these guys are obviously doing something right if they've achieved total dominance. I just find their product to ignore a lot of important factors -- and, by extension, to symbolize/encourage a line of out-of-touch thinking in the US transit biz.

Oh well!

 

 

 

Well you know a ton of people love Gilligs. They are my favorite. New Flyers are just too bumpy for me. Our operators around here love them as much as older high floors. Passengers love them too, very high quality bus!!

19 minutes ago, Border City Transit said:

 

Well, hey... you like 'em, you like 'em. More power to you -- you'll certainly have no trouble finding Gilligs in the US!

I have extensive experience both riding and driving Gillig LFs, and find them inferior in both regards. I'll concede that Gillig much improved their quality in the 2000-2010 era, and there's certainly things they do right. Parts and aftermarket are very good.

Gillig LFs seem to be built -strictly- for maintenance. Obviously, that's a critical consideration. But there's been very little attention to the people who ride them and drive them. If we're trying to attract people to transit, the rider experience must count for -something-.

As an operator, I always found the Gillig LF cockpit to be cramped and unintuitively designed. Lots of obstructions to the natural flow of your hands, arms and left foot. When driving at night, the interior glare is/was waaaay worse than other buses. And for other reasons that I can't quite articulate, they were just never very fun to drive.

As a rider, the only word I can think of is "oppressive". From the angry-looking (standard) front to the oddly proportioned/apportioned interior cabin... it feels like an undeserved visit to the vice principal's office.

I don't know. Seats, window opening style and window -tint- can be adjusted by spec. Window height and basic window frame config... I've never seen a Gillig LF with "lower" front-section windows to improve visibility (and I've seen a lot of Gilligs! <_<) The "bathtub effect" is part and parcel to the Gillig LF model, regardless of spec.

Look, these guys are obviously doing something right if they've achieved total dominance. I just find their product to ignore a lot of important factors -- and, by extension, to symbolize/encourage a line of out-of-touch thinking in the US transit biz.

Oh well!

 

 

 

This is a Gillig product discussion, not Gillig hate page

23 minutes ago, TheAverageJoe said:

I forgot to post this back from November. in the East Bay area, County Connection transit bought four all electric Gillig trolleys.

 

https://countyconnection.com/about/electric-buses/

Very cool to see Gillig making electric buses!!

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7 hours ago, OR Transit Fan said:

This is a Gillig product discussion, not Gillig hate page

Very cool to see Gillig making electric buses!!

Give me a break, what was presented was very much a contribution to this discussion. Just because you don't like that someone is presenting a point of view that you disagree with, doesn't mean it should stop. This isn't the Gillig Cheerlearder thread, feel free to start that somewhere else if you don't want read negative comments.

 I will certainly agree that from a riders perspective, the Gillig isn't that great. It's been a few years since I was on a Gillig (Boise, Idaho), but, that lower section was indeed very uninviting. Felt like they'd taken a high floor Gillig, lowered the floor, and left the windows at the same height. First impression was not good... would rather have a New Flyer or Nova any day.

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38 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

Give me a break, what was presented was very much a contribution to this discussion. Just because you don't like that someone is presenting a point of view that you disagree with, doesn't mean it should stop. This isn't the Gillig Cheerlearder thread, feel free to start that somewhere else if you don't want read negative comments.

 I will certainly agree that from a riders perspective, the Gillig isn't that great. It's been a few years since I was on a Gillig (Boise, Idaho), but, that lower section was indeed very uninviting. Felt like they'd taken a high floor Gillig, lowered the floor, and left the windows at the same height. First impression was not good... would rather have a New Flyer or Nova any day.

From my perspective, the low floor windows have never seemed high to me. Our Orion VII's have really high windows in the low floor part. Not looking forward to our XN40's and XN35's tho

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8 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

Give me a break, what was presented was very much a contribution to this discussion. Just because you don't like that someone is presenting a point of view that you disagree with, doesn't mean it should stop. This isn't the Gillig Cheerlearder thread, feel free to start that somewhere else if you don't want read negative comments.

 I will certainly agree that from a riders perspective, the Gillig isn't that great. It's been a few years since I was on a Gillig (Boise, Idaho), but, that lower section was indeed very uninviting. Felt like they'd taken a high floor Gillig, lowered the floor, and left the windows at the same height. First impression was not good... would rather have a New Flyer or Nova any day.

I find it depends on the batch of Gilligs made and how the systems keep them up. I been on Gilligs, Novas, Orions, New Flyers that ride good and ones that ride like junk.

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On 1/15/2017 at 1:55 PM, Border City Transit said:

I've never seen a Gillig LF with "lower" front-section windows to improve visibility (and I've seen a lot of Gilligs! <_<) The "bathtub effect" is part and parcel to the Gillig LF model, regardless of spec.

I've never thought of that analogy before... but it's perfect. You definitely feel like you're riding around in a bathtub.

I'm 6'3", so definitely on the taller side, and the bottom of the windows in the low-floor section is barely below my chin. I feel bad for shorter riders. 

That (and the location of the posts) is definitely my biggest complaint about the Gillig low-floor coaches. 

On 1/15/2017 at 10:36 PM, OR Transit Fan said:

From my perspective, the low floor windows have never seemed high to me. Our Orion VII's have really high windows in the low floor part. Not looking forward to our XN40's and XN35's tho

If you're comparing to an Orion VII, that makes since... the "bathtub effect" is also part of the Orion VII experience.

On the Xcelcior coaches, the bottom of the windows on the low-floor section sit just above elbow height for me... much better for looking out the at the world. 

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3 hours ago, rickycourtney said:

I've never thought of that analogy before... but it's perfect. You definitely feel like you're riding around in a bathtub.

I'm 6'3", so definitely on the taller side, and the bottom of the windows in the low-floor section is barely below my chin. I feel bad for shorter riders. 

That (and the location of the posts) is definitely my biggest complaint about the Gillig low-floor coaches. 

If you're comparing to an Orion VII, that makes since... the "bathtub effect" is also part of the Orion VII experience.

On the Xcelcior coaches, the bottom of the windows on the low-floor section sit just above elbow height for me... much better for looking out the at the world. 

Maybe we have taller seats, but every Gillig LF I've been on, the low floor window height was just fine to me. I've never felt the bathtub effect. 

3 hours ago, rickycourtney said:

I've never thought of that analogy before... but it's perfect. You definitely feel like you're riding around in a bathtub.

I'm 6'3", so definitely on the taller side, and the bottom of the windows in the low-floor section is barely below my chin. I feel bad for shorter riders. 

That (and the location of the posts) is definitely my biggest complaint about the Gillig low-floor coaches. 

If you're comparing to an Orion VII, that makes since... the "bathtub effect" is also part of the Orion VII experience.

On the Xcelcior coaches, the bottom of the windows on the low-floor section sit just above elbow height for me... much better for looking out the at the world. 

Yeah our new Xcelsiors will never last as long as our older buses, I'll guarantee that

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  • 3 months later...

Hi!  Just like to raise a question on the Gillig BRT Plus (Gillig BRT with full length streamlined fairing on the roof): Are all BRT Plus buses produced so far (save the 30ft. buses made for Houston's Greenlink downtown shuttle) 40ft.?  Thanks!

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5 hours ago, Buzz2kb said:

Hi!  Just like to raise a question on the Gillig BRT Plus (Gillig BRT with full length streamlined fairing on the roof): Are all BRT Plus buses produced so far (save the 30ft. buses made for Houston's Greenlink downtown shuttle) 40ft.?  Thanks!

No.  As far as I know, Brockton Area Transit is getting a total of 4 35ft BRTPluses.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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