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Transit 20
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11 hours ago, Transit 20 said:

well they just messed that up the only way to get the 21 busy is to add more runs they should went with the 2nd option in the first place i am glad i dont live in Elmira.

I really don't think that would fix anything. It's already every half hour for the most part, and that's more generous then some of the routes in the cities. It should be shorter buses, it should cover more of Elmira, and the service should run later then 6pm on weekdays and 3pm on Saturdays.

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4 minutes ago, Josh said:

I really don't think that would fix anything. It's already every half hour for the most part, and that's more generous then some of the routes in the cities. It should be shorter buses, it should cover more of Elmira, and the service should run later then 6pm on weekdays and 3pm on Saturdays.

Cover more of Elmira, I agree. But how would we go about using the same money whilst providing a more enticing service? 30 min service is good, but then extended hours and coverage will out-weight the savings from smaller buses. The only thing I can think of is schedule changes to compliment the shorter buses.

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3 hours ago, TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM said:

Cover more of Elmira, I agree. But how would we go about using the same money whilst providing a more enticing service? 30 min service is good, but then extended hours and coverage will out-weight the savings from smaller buses. The only thing I can think of is schedule changes to compliment the shorter buses.

I've used that bus, some of my friends use it in a daily basis to get to school. I'll tell you right now, it's a piece of crap. I'm going as far as to call it the least punctual bus in the city. The route is no less busy than a bunch of the regular routes. It just needs more service. It needs to run later and be more direct. There are plenty of people (sometimes upwards of 40 people) that use the bus. Shrinking the size would be a horrible idea considering how bad the punctuality is. Just increase service. The councillors are being ridiculous.

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5 hours ago, Streety McCarface said:

I've used that bus, some of my friends use it in a daily basis to get to school. I'll tell you right now, it's a piece of crap. I'm going as far as to call it the least punctual bus in the city. The route is no less busy than a bunch of the regular routes. It just needs more service. It needs to run later and be more direct. There are plenty of people (sometimes upwards of 40 people) that use the bus. Shrinking the size would be a horrible idea considering how bad the punctuality is. Just increase service. The councillors are being ridiculous.

Well, unfortunately, the councilors want to be re-elected. And gawd forbid someone complains that they have to pay more taxes and then no one is getting re-elected. As for shrinking the size of the bus, I dont know how that would effect punctuality, but I've never heard of the bus having 40 people on it ASIDE from between Conestoga Mall and St.Jacobs Walmart.

I think the Walmart portion should be a separate route that then goes to the new industrial and business buildings along Weber before returning to CMT via Conestogo. The actual 21 from CMT express to St.Jacob's Market can then do whatever you need it to do up in Elmira (direct).

I've never seen the demand for a 40' bus in Elmira or St.Jacobs (town), but I cannot comment on hours of service as I only ever use the 21 casually and off-peak. The councilors are making a "business case" out of public transit.....not a good idea. It is kinda ridiculous.

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i have lived in Elmira for 5 years the 40 foot buses are needed because there are alot of seniors who use the bus in Elmira 

GRT wont put a small bus out there just because they wont buy smaller buses only ones they have are for the bus plus and a differnt company owns them

woolwich township  councilors has there heads in the sand they dont want change they think there is nothing wrong with the service well there is and there is lots wrong with Elmira just ask some police officers.

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I don't have a perfect solution in mind, but given that busplus costs about 3/4 the amount of conventional service on a per-service-hour basis, and given that ~100,000 passengers per year breaks down to a statistical average of 26 people per hour (obviously more at peak), it would roughly take doubling service (and a 50% cost increase) just to carry the same passenger load, to say nothing for the resulting increased ridership that more frequent service would eventually bring. I can't envision them considering going back to busplus any time soon.

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3 minutes ago, shivers said:

I don't have a perfect solution in mind, but given that busplus costs about 3/4 the amount of conventional service on a per-service-hour basis, and given that ~100,000 passengers per year breaks down to a statistical average of 26 people per hour (obviously more at peak), it would roughly take doubling service (and a 50% cost increase) just to carry the same passenger load, to say nothing for the resulting increased ridership that more frequent service would eventually bring. I can't envision them considering going back to busplus any time soon.

Well, this being the case....why is Woolwhich being so stingy then? Do they not see the benefits of what you guys have suggested? They cant seriously just be 'slash-in-burn' conservatives are they?

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I'm not knowledgeable enough regarding the route, but I do think it's unrealistic to expect a combined Elmira + St Jacobs service population of 12,000 to support bus service to a hub 15km from the route endpoint at a 50% fare recovery rate.

Compare to other small towns. Take Fort Erie (Lucky me, the first system I checked for comparison was ideal.) They have one route, nearly identical route length and service hours to the 21. A quick google search shows that the town shelled out $582k net to run it in 2016... and that's for a population of almost 30,000! If the 21 is only costing $500k right now for 1/3 the population, that's better than some other places.

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14 minutes ago, shivers said:

I'm not knowledgeable enough regarding the route, but I do think it's unrealistic to expect a combined Elmira + St Jacobs service population of 12,000 to support bus service to a hub 15km from the route endpoint at a 50% fare recovery rate.

Compare to other small towns. Take Fort Erie (Lucky me, the first system I checked for comparison was ideal.) They have one route, nearly identical route length and service hours to the 21. A quick google search shows that the town shelled out $582k net to run it in 2016... and that's for a population of almost 30,000! If the 21 is only costing $500k right now for 1/3 the population, that's better than some other places.

Doesn't that mean Fort Erie is doing better? ($582'000 ÷ 30'000persons = $17 v. $500000 ÷ 12'000 persons=$40)

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2 hours ago, TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM said:

Doesn't that mean Fort Erie is doing better? ($582'000 ÷ 30'000persons = $17 v. $500000 ÷ 12'000 persons=$40)

There are more people using the 21 than the Fort Erie bus, and I do believe that much of the 21's subsidy comes from the region. Honestly, it seems about as busy as the 27 most of the time. Another thing: IT'S FREAKING PUBLIC TRANSIT!!!! ITS SOLE PURPOSE IS TO SERVE THE PEOPLE, IT SHOULD BE ACCESSABLE MOST OF THE TIME, NOT JUST BEFORE 6!!!

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4 minutes ago, Streety McCarface said:

There are more people using the 21 than the Fort Erie bus, and I do believe that much of the 21's subsidy comes from the region. Honestly, it seems about as busy as the 27 most of the time. Another thing: IT'S FREAKING PUBLIC TRANSIT!!!! ITS SOLE PURPOSE IS TO SERVE THE PEOPLE, IT SHOULD BE ACCESSABLE MOST OF THE TIME, NOT JUST BEFORE 6!!!

Yeah, I agree what public transit is and is for....but councilors look at it the way I showed above, in a per tax payer cost. Its a real tick-off, but I'm sure one can easily produce a business case in favour of Elmira service.

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On 2016-11-29 at 0:00 PM, dj.surf.lfs said:

New buses for 2017 will include 57 New Flyer XD40s for regular service (18 expansion + 39 replacement).

There will be an additional 9 vehicles for ION aBRT service, which will be a separate contract (P2016-05). New Flyer and Nova have both bid on the proposal.

So has GRT only purchased 18 buses, or is this expanding on the budgeted 57 buses?

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6 minutes ago, Streety McCarface said:

So has GRT only purchased 18 buses, or is this expanding on the budgeted 57 buses?

When I talked to some GRT people at the UW Transit Terminal expo thing, sounded like Conestoga rejecting the U-Pass really messed with GRT's bus plans. From the sounds of it, now GRT is just gonna continue making purchases of small batches till more money is found. I dont know if there will be 57 buses soon, and I know for certain no 60ft buses are coming in until there is a while new shop built that can handle them.

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new buses will be XD40.

39 Replacements this will wipe the 23xx out and the start of the 24xx

18 expasion all buses will be here for september not any sooner.

the ontario government  gave them the money for the replacements a few months ago look at the older post.

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2 minutes ago, Transit 20 said:

new buses will be XD40.

39 Replacements this will wipe the 23xx out and the start of the 24xx

18 expasion all buses will be here for september not any sooner.

the ontario government  gave them the money for the replacements a few months ago look at the older post.

Cool, cool. I also like how the 2200's are staying hahaha. But then, who is that im talking to when they tell me they dont think buses are coming? :$

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18 minutes ago, Transit 20 said:

what im hearning from my contacts at strasburg garage the 22xx might live longer but also the 22xx are post to be for Training but back up if there short cough cough they beeeb short for awhile 

Yeah, I've had a few drivers tell me the 2200's are for training (they replaced the Orion VI's they had). And ive seen mainly 2203 and such with the big yellow caution signs on the back for training up in Waterloo. I just have to say that ive seen 20yr old Novas in Montreal, maybe...just maybe will see 20yr old LF's :)

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Not sure how true this is, but sounds logical. My source at GRT tells me the current shortage (explaining the the 22-hundreds going back in service) is due to some Nova and XD40 buses equipped with the new fareboxes being tied up until they get the bugs out of them. Apparently a handful have had them installed since the fall, and have been out of service all this time. But once they get the fareboxes working that should turn the LF40's back into training buses again.

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