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Transit Service Discussion (Articulated/Conventional/Shuttle/Skytrain/Seabus)

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4 minutes ago, Express691 said:

Minimally, they should just eliminate the B-Line word altogether.

Also consider what's coming in for RapidBus service: PCT will get XDE60s and the 701 won't need artics. 13 runs on 3 spares for 143/145 is enough for the D60LFRs, so those D60LFs can just be scrapped.

Maximum output for the 99 B-Line is 34 buses, which leaves 5 spares. However, one needs to account for the 257 and 44, which are also non-rapidbus artic routes. 

Case in point: The remaining non-RB articulated buses will NOT be enough to service the 49, 99, 257, 143, and 145.

I do agree: That study was pointless, redundant, and unnecessary

 

So will some of the 2019 Artics that are being ordered come in standard livery or are they going to just use RapidBus vehicles on non-RB routes? There's also the 503 to consider

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1 minute ago, Matt Dunlop said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQkPUATu61k

Saw this video regarding the new "RapidBus" service, and it sounds nice. What do they define as "softer seats"? Is it a cloth-covered Aries seat? Or a seat similar to the Orions? Or maybe even the seats that Victoria has (American Seating Insight with cloth covering)? 

Moreso I think theyre similar to what 18451-18473 have, except without the headrest. Still not really a significant difference when compared to the Aries seats on everything else.

1 minute ago, cleowin said:

So will some of the 2019 Artics that are being ordered come in standard livery or are they going to just use RapidBus vehicles on non-RB routes? There's also the 503 to consider

edited the original post.

That information, I do not have at this moment. What they could do instead is to continue the WRAP-id-bus program and fullwrap some XDE60 to serve on these non-RB routes.

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25 minutes ago, Express691 said:

Moreso I think theyre similar to what 18451-18473 have, except without the headrest. Still not really a significant difference when compared to the Aries seats on everything else.

I asked about the seats and the response I got was that the seats are thicker, so you are correct.

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Surrey's existing 2015 XDE60s will probably run the 503.

I also think that a subset of the RapidBus XDE60s will run on the 44/99/257.

Let's say STC gets ~13 RapidBus for R1, PTC gets ~13 for R3. HTC will probably get ~34 for R4, which leaves ~50 for R2/R5 at BTC. The R2 will need 10 and the R5 runs around 24 at peak, so BTC really "needs" only around 40 RapidBuses including spares). If we assume that the 8 2015 XDE60s will go from RTC back to BTC, then together with the 39 DE60LFRs and the 10 "excess" RapidBuses, 57 should be enough for the 44/99/257.

(I'm assuming RTC won't keep the 8 2015s long term, since the 620 will move to double deckers)

Personal guess for artic distribution come January:

BTC: 40 RapidBus, 10 excess RapidBus (perhaps continue to be wrapped?), 39 DE60LFR, 8 2015 XDE60

HTC: 34 RapidBus

PTC: 13 RapidBus, 16 D60LFR

RTC: 25 2012 XDE60, 26 2016 XDE60

STC: 13 RapidBus, 13 2015 XDE60

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RTC:

32 buses on the 49 for maximum output.

I forgot how many will be needed for 480. Let's say 5 (because that's how many they used when RTC only had 10 artics for 480 and 620)

Then 5 for the 620, then you have deckers for the 620.

42 buses on 9 spare is a bit excessive tbh.

Deckers can free up some 16200 to return to BTC, or increase the 49.

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It's a little disappointing that they aren't rebranding the 99 at the same time, if only because the 99, as the representative B-Line, will still maintain higher frequencies throughout the week than all of the RapidBus routes, implying that RapidBus lines are worse than B-Lines despite the rebranding. Nothing, probably not even priority lanes, beats frequency, and the 99 is still going to beat the rest at that.

Also, the 99 might be losing its air conditioning. 😛

 

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7 hours ago, DarkKeyo said:

If they're like the trains and say 'R1 King George to Newton' or similar maybe it'll be better. But I don't understand how their studies/consultations to 'reduce confusion' led to this either.  

I just realized that this means that a passenger going to Guildford through King George will hear something like "King George, terminus station, exit here for the R1 King George." 

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8 minutes ago, DarkKeyo said:

I just realized that this means that a passenger going to Guildford through King George will hear something like "King George, terminus station, exit here for the R1 King George." 

It took them months of planning just to confuse passengers more...

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9 minutes ago, 8010 said:

It took them months of planning just to confuse passengers more...

So when R4 is deployed on 41st & 41st becomes 100% Trolley this will then free up some Nova’s? I presume more of the 1st generation Nova’s will then be transferred out of VTC? 

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5 hours ago, briguychau said:

Surrey's existing 2015 XDE60s will probably run the 503.

I also think that a subset of the RapidBus XDE60s will run on the 44/99/257.

Let's say STC gets ~13 RapidBus for R1, PTC gets ~13 for R3. HTC will probably get ~34 for R4, which leaves ~50 for R2/R5 at BTC. 

I thought I'd give my own two cents on this topic. First of all, let's assume, for the sake of simplicity, that ALL 2018/19 units are RapidBuses, and no RapidBuses should be seen on regular routes.

BTC needs: ~38 for 99, ~5 for 257, ~12 for 44 = ~55 total. Then ~35 for R2/R5. Use: 18001-18040 (40), 8118-8156 (39), 16210-16216 (17). Total 40+56 

HTC needs: ~35 for R4. Use: 19001-19039 (39). Total 39

PTC needs: ~14 for 143/145/150. Then ~13 for R3. Use: 18041-18056 (16), 8102-8117 (16). Total 16+16

STC needs: ~18 for 503. Then ~14 for R1. Use: 18057-18063 (7), 19039-19047 (9), 80XX (7), 15001-15021 (21). Total 16+28

RTC needs: ~32 for 49. Use: 12001-12025 (25), 16201-16209 (9). Total 34

Extra buses: 10 at STC. They can be put to good use on the 319... or if VTC wants some for the 3/8/10/20 they can take the 7 D60LFs. But knowing Vancouver, they won't take anything older than a Nova 2nd Gen... :)

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1 minute ago, dover5949 said:

So when R4 is deployed on 41st & 41st becomes 100% Trolley this then free up some Nova’s. I presume more of the 1st generation Nova’s will be transferred out of VTC? 

Or they will re-deployed onto other routes to increase service.

1 minute ago, FlyingPig said:

I thought I'd give my own two cents on this topic. First of all, let's assume, for the sake of simplicity, that ALL 2018/19 units are RapidBuses, and no RapidBuses should be seen on regular routes.

BTC needs: ~38 for 99, ~5 for 257, ~12 for 44 = ~55 total. Then ~35 for R2/R5. Use: 18001-18040 (40), 8118-8156 (39), 16210-16216 (17). Total 40+56 

HTC needs: ~35 for R4. Use: 19001-19039 (39). Total 39

PTC needs: ~14 for 143/145/150. Then ~13 for R3. Use: 18041-18056 (16), 8102-8117 (16). Total 16+16

STC needs: ~18 for 503. Then ~14 for R1. Use: 18057-18063 (7), 19039-19047 (9), 80XX (7), 15001-15021 (21). Total 16+28

RTC needs: ~32 for 49. Use: 12001-12025 (25), 16201-16209 (9). Total 34

Extra buses: 10 at STC. They can be put to good use on the 319... or if VTC wants some for the 3/8/10/20 they can take the 7 D60LFs. But knowing Vancouver, they won't take anything older than a Nova 2nd Gen... :)

You can assume the 7 D60LF's will be retired, therefore Surrey will have 3 extras.

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10 minutes ago, dover5949 said:

So when R4 is deployed on 41st & 41st becomes 100% Trolley this will then free up some Nova’s? I presume more of the 1st generation Nova’s will then be transferred out of VTC? 

There will be around 35 freed Novas. I would be inclined to believe that some will stay at VTC for some sort of expansion (increase the 33 and 84 frequencies, maybe?) and the rest transferred to HTC.

We should also take into account the ~15 buses freed from the 239...

I also find it very interesting how STC is the D40LF retirement depot but the 2019 XN40s have gone to HTC. And the 30 + 15= 45 Novas is exactly enough to kill the D40LFs...

Might we be seeing some Novas in Surrey? The relatively flat terrain is well suited for the HEVs, and I would personally welcome all 2nd gen diesels. :)

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2 minutes ago, FlyingPig said:

There will be around 35 freed Novas. I would be inclined to believe that some will stay at VTC for some sort of expansion (increase the 33 and 84 frequencies, maybe?) and the rest transferred to HTC.

We should also take into account the ~15 buses freed from the 239...

I also find it very interesting how STC is the D40LF retirement depot but the 2019 XN40s have gone to HTC. And the 30 + 15= 45 Novas is exactly enough to kill the D40LFs...

Might we be seeing some Novas in Surrey? The relatively flat terrain is well suited for the HEVs, and I would personally welcome all 2nd gen diesels. :)

I think the general consensus is that the 2016 XN40's at HTC willl be transferred out to STC 1:1 with incoming 2019 XN40's. I think VTC will just end up keeping all their Nova's for expansion, same with BTC. Where else are we going to put them? I think RTC is at capacity.

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29 minutes ago, dover5949 said:

So when R4 is deployed on 41st & 41st becomes 100% Trolley this will then free up some Nova’s? I presume more of the 1st generation Nova’s will then be transferred out of VTC? 

The 9 is slated to switch from trolley to diesel as the Broadway Subway project begins.

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1 hour ago, Large Cat said:

It's a little disappointing that they aren't rebranding the 99 at the same time, if only because the 99, as the representative B-Line, will still maintain higher frequencies throughout the week than all of the RapidBus routes, implying that RapidBus lines are worse than B-Lines despite the rebranding. Nothing, probably not even priority lanes, beats frequency, and the 99 is still going to beat the rest at that.

Also, the 99 might be losing its air conditioning. 😛

 

While there are definitely those implications of RapidBus routes being inferior, I always assumed the 99 isn't becoming a RapidBus because it's going to be replaced soon enough anyway, hence there's no incentive to upgrade existing infrastructure, hence no rebranding

Actually, a question: I noticed that the bus stops that will soon serve the R2 have the phrase "tactile pad" painted on the pavement, which is one of the proposed RapidBus features. Is the 99 getting the same upgrades? Because if not, then that may explain why it's not being rebranded

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51 minutes ago, FlyingPig said:

I thought I'd give my own two cents on this topic. First of all, let's assume, for the sake of simplicity, that ALL 2018/19 units are RapidBuses, and no RapidBuses should be seen on regular routes.

BTC needs: ~38 for 99, ~5 for 257, ~12 for 44 = ~55 total. Then ~35 for R2/R5. Use: 18001-18040 (40), 8118-8156 (39), 16210-16216 (17). Total 40+56 

HTC needs: ~35 for R4. Use: 19001-19039 (39). Total 39

PTC needs: ~14 for 143/145/150. Then ~13 for R3. Use: 18041-18056 (16), 8102-8117 (16). Total 16+16

STC needs: ~18 for 503. Then ~14 for R1. Use: 18057-18063 (7), 19039-19047 (9), 80XX (7), 15001-15021 (21). Total 16+28

RTC needs: ~32 for 49. Use: 12001-12025 (25), 16201-16209 (9). Total 34

Extra buses: 10 at STC. They can be put to good use on the 319... or if VTC wants some for the 3/8/10/20 they can take the 7 D60LFs. But knowing Vancouver, they won't take anything older than a Nova 2nd Gen... :)

This... this is it.

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15 minutes ago, bob32189 said:

While there are definitely those implications of RapidBus routes being inferior, I always assumed the 99 isn't becoming a RapidBus because it's going to be replaced soon enough anyway, hence there's no incentive to upgrade existing infrastructure, hence no rebranding

Actually, a question: I noticed that the bus stops that will soon serve the R2 have the phrase "tactile pad" painted on the pavement, which is one of the proposed RapidBus features. Is the 99 getting the same upgrades? Because if not, then that may explain why it's not being rebranded

The 99 is not receiving any new infrastructure, which is why it is remaining as the final B-Line route.

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I should have posted the total number of artics needed for this sheet to help in projections:

99: 34

95: 24

43: 24 (29 if you include those north van trips) (also includes the 6 or 7 for the 44)

257: 5 (some will start shift as N17 though)

143/145: 14

701: 10 or 12

96: 10

503: 18-20 (there were 24 blocks to work with so this is an estimate).

4 minutes ago, 8010 said:

The 99 is not receiving any new infrastructure, which is why it is remaining as the final B-Line route.

Still kinda off/confusing to have B-Line and RapidBus to co-exist despite the 99 being temporary, and despite having better frequency than all the rapidbus routes.

============

https://www.translink.ca/-/media/Documents/plans_and_projects/rapid_bus/rapid_bus_lougheed.pdf?la=en&hash=A38418C88A4B0790DEFAB4787B0FF609769E7151

The R3 is set to bypass Pitt Meadows.

=============

The R4 has some sort of error where it lists, under "route changes", that the 41 would be discontinued. (Obviously we know they are talking about route 43)

=============

 

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1 hour ago, Express691 said:

Yet another stupid idea, not having the R3 serve maple meadows, and extending the 595 instead. Do the planners even take transit?

One unrelated thing I forgot about, the WVMT contract expired in March, and obviously was renewed, but does anyone have the details on it? How long is it for this time?

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The R3 skipping Pitt Meadows shouldn't be a surprise to anyone; it's been in the documents since consultation began.  And, the potential delays from crossing the CP mainline twice would be too great.

As for serving Maple Meadows, it simply doesn't make sense to delay through riders for 5 minutes to loop around a car dealership and a parking lot.  The Rapidbuses are meant to be direct routes, any deviation would need a significant anchor and ridership, such as the R2 diverting into Lonsdale Quay to meet the Seabus.  Given that a hypothetical R3 diversion to Maple Meadows would exist only to provide a connection to local routes, not serving any major trip destination or anchors, it makes far more sense to extend the local routes to meet it, providing the same network connection.

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21 minutes ago, Translink69 said:

Yet another stupid idea, 

Do the planners even take transit?

Oh they do! Also the sky is brown, the WCE runs 24/7, and theres a SkyTrain serving UBC!

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23 minutes ago, 8010 said:

Next bus digital signage on the new RapidBus stops, good luck reading it in the dark.

20190724_061657.png

It must have a backlight or something

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