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Transit Service Discussion (Articulated/Conventional/Shuttle/Skytrain/Seabus)

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Delays on some East Van trolley routes today due to ice build up on the wires. If only we had de-icing trucks that could've prevented this...

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8 hours ago, 8010 said:

Delays on some East Van trolley routes today due to ice build up on the wires. If only we had de-icing trucks that could've prevented this...

The de-icing trucks were out, however one broke down so the overhead deicing could not be completed as planned.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/frozen-trolleybus-lines-commuters-vancouver-1.4931853?cmp=rss

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OK so these routes will probably see shuttles within the next year:

 

26

29

101

104

110

129

134 (All trips)

136 (All trips)

152

156

159

183 (All trips, not just early morning and late night)

191

212

Extend 227 to Upper Lynn and shorten 210 & 209 to Lynn Valley Center only

231

232

Horseshoe Bay branch of 250 (Could split route from Horseshoe Bay to Dundrave)

253 (Rockridge School Special trip operate via Hwy 1 to 15th)

254 (Sentinel Special operate via Taylor Way, Hwy 1, Cross Creek, Chartwell)

314

404

405

408

418

501 (Could maybe split)

Someone please let me know their thoughts on these changes

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There aren't nearly enough shuttle to run all of those route... especially some of them will need frequency increase if conversion happens.

And most of them won't have enough capacity if conversion happens... For instance, I actually think they should extend the conventional service of 183 by about 1 hour. I haven't seen any pass-up yet, but some of those early evening runs I've been in have load of about 22~24.

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I'm assuming that shuttle post is just a fan idea? A few of those changes are really illogical; everything on the North Shore suggested would add buses to reduce capacity while creating additional transfers to do so. 

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While there is a dreams and aspirations thread (which I cannot link right now), I do want to suggest the 329 as a potential downgrade. Service in NW Delta does need a bit of restructuring, 314/329 seem to have been buried as far as priorities.

I just wish there was a middle ground between 30 minute shuttle service and 30 minute 40" service. Risking overcrowding for 1, inefficient use of resources for the other.

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10 hours ago, Express691 said:

While there is a dreams and aspirations thread (which I cannot link right now), I do want to suggest the 329 as a potential downgrade. Service in NW Delta does need a bit of restructuring, 314/329 seem to have been buried as far as priorities.

I just wish there was a middle ground between 30 minute shuttle service and 30 minute 40" service. Risking overcrowding for 1, inefficient use of resources for the other.

I could not agree more.  I even wrote to Translink a couple of years ago about these 2 routes.  Hopefully they are on someone's radar - especially with the likes of the 502 - and likely others - displaying the "Sorry, Bus Full" sign with increasing regularity.  Speaking of which, I have not seen any info an possible service increases coming for Surrey in January.  Fingers crossed.

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11 hours ago, Express691 said:

While there is a dreams and aspirations thread (which I cannot link right now), I do want to suggest the 329 as a potential downgrade. Service in NW Delta does need a bit of restructuring, 314/329 seem to have been buried as far as priorities.

I just wish there was a middle ground between 30 minute shuttle service and 30 minute 40" service. Risking overcrowding for 1, inefficient use of resources for the other.

35" buses like XN35s or something? NW Delta services seems to be the bottom of TransLink's priorities, with the exception of the Scott Road B-Line.

13 hours ago, Evan Hancock said:

OK so these routes will probably see shuttles within the next year:

 

26

29

101

104

110

129

134 (All trips)

136 (All trips)

152

156

159

183 (All trips, not just early morning and late night)

191

212

Extend 227 to Upper Lynn and shorten 210 & 209 to Lynn Valley Center only

231

232

Horseshoe Bay branch of 250 (Could split route from Horseshoe Bay to Dundrave)

253 (Rockridge School Special trip operate via Hwy 1 to 15th)

254 (Sentinel Special operate via Taylor Way, Hwy 1, Cross Creek, Chartwell)

314

404

405

408

418

501 (Could maybe split)

Someone please let me know their thoughts on these changes

As someone who as taken all of these routes (except the 231) all I can say is (on this thread at least) I agree with some and not agree with others.

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2 hours ago, 8010 said:

35" buses like XN35s or something? NW Delta services seems to be the bottom of TransLink's priorities, with the exception of the Scott Road B-Line.

I think 30" is a better middle ground - same seats as a shuttle bus except now you can allow standees.

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1 hour ago, Express691 said:

I think 30" is a better middle ground - same seats as a shuttle bus except now you can allow standees.

Only if it's driven by a conventional op.  Unless Translink and CMBC decide to do away with shuttle and have a bus is a bus is a bus we won't see 30' or 35' Xcelsiors and I doubt that will happen.  I won't go into more detail on the subject, it's a very large messy can of worms.

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34 minutes ago, Brando737 said:

Only if it's driven by a conventional op.  Unless Translink and CMBC decide to do away with shuttle and have a bus is a bus is a bus we won't see 30' or 35' Xcelsiors and I doubt that will happen.  I won't go into more detail on the subject, it's a very large messy can of worms.

Yeah it really is a gray area - like I said. 

There are routes that don't really need conventional buses every 30 minutes which at the same time would get overcrowded using shuttles at the same frequency. 

I think the upgrade from shuttle to conventional is a bit more abrupt unlike from conventional to articulated. At least run the shuttle every 20 minutes before giving the upgrade to conventional.

Then there's the gray area of licensing versus running an efficient service, like you mentioned.

I'm hinting at word going around of the 388 using standard buses at the conclusion of the Christmas sheet (that's all I know at this point).

I guess at the end of the day it all comes down to cost. It would still be nice to see 30" buses (Yaxings or ALX200s) on the lower end of the conventional routes (134, 136, 110, 183, 191, PoCo In general, 314, 329, 391, 418).

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1 hour ago, Express691 said:

I guess at the end of the day it all comes down to cost. It would still be nice to see 30" buses (Yaxings or ALX200s) on the lower end of the conventional routes (134, 136, 110, 183, 191, PoCo In general, 314, 329, 391, 418).

The problem with Coquitlam and PoCo routes is that.. you may see the bus quite empty outside of peak hour, but shuttles never have enough capacity to takes passengers from WCE. Also, shuttles are really bad at handling spikes in demand when a large group fill up a bus.  I could argue that 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 186, 187 should all been conventional for the 5 morning and 5 afternoon trips that connects to WCE, and 179, 182 should be conventional during weekend daytime to handle with the spike in demand.  Not sure if going 30" or increase shuttle frequency helps in these cases...

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23 hours ago, Evan Hancock said:

404

405

408

418

I take these routes on a regular basis. It's nearly always SORRY BUS FULL during the peak, and even during the off peak it gets pretty packed for a conventional. I could see the 418 getting shuttles off peak, but that's about it.

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4 hours ago, nname said:

The problem with Coquitlam and PoCo routes is that.. you may see the bus quite empty outside of peak hour, but shuttles never have enough capacity to takes passengers from WCE. Also, shuttles are really bad at handling spikes in demand when a large group fill up a bus.  I could argue that 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 186, 187 should all been conventional for the 5 morning and 5 afternoon trips that connects to WCE, and 179, 182 should be conventional during weekend daytime to handle with the spike in demand.  Not sure if going 30" or increase shuttle frequency helps in these cases...

Can we agree that it will work on the 160? I hardly see it get used nowadays, and it will open up some space in PCT.

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On 12/6/2018 at 4:35 PM, Evan Hancock said:

OK so these routes will probably see shuttles within the next year:

 

26

29

101

104

110

129

134 (All trips)

136 (All trips)

152

156

159

183 (All trips, not just early morning and late night)

191

212

Extend 227 to Upper Lynn and shorten 210 & 209 to Lynn Valley Center only

231

232

Horseshoe Bay branch of 250 (Could split route from Horseshoe Bay to Dundrave)

253 (Rockridge School Special trip operate via Hwy 1 to 15th)

254 (Sentinel Special operate via Taylor Way, Hwy 1, Cross Creek, Chartwell)

314

404

405

408

418

501 (Could maybe split)

Someone please let me know their thoughts on these changes

How come 408 using shuttles ?A

Always getting full in non peak hours or peak hours as I take it everyday 

I hope RTC can use articulated in this route ...

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14 minutes ago, P8093 said:

How come 408 using shuttles ?A

Always getting full in non peak hours or peak hours as I take it everyday 

I hope RTC can use articulated in this route ...

It's not even FTN yet.

No chance of artics for awhile.

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31 minutes ago, buizelbus said:

It's not even FTN yet.

No chance of artics for awhile.

Miscommunication on my end. You can help out by quoting the right text. Almost thought you advocated for shuttles on the 408 because it wasn't FTN yet, based on the text you quoted.

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On 12/6/2018 at 4:35 PM, Evan Hancock said:

152

156

159

183 (All trips, not just early morning and late night)

191 

152 Absolutely 10000% never going to happen.

156/159 Unlikely but could on late night trips

183 Conventional Service should be longer 

191 Should be during off peak until Burke Mountain is populated enough to require Conventional Service, which shouldn’t happen for a while. Peak hour should continue to use Conventional to relieve the 188

1 hour ago, Express691 said:

Can we agree that it will work on the 160? I hardly see it get used nowadays, and it will open up some space in PCT.

No. Perhaps reducing frequency and splitting it at Moody Centre is a better option. The Kootenay-Moody portion could possibly be served by shuttles, but the Moody-Poco needs 40’, but at 20-30 minute frequency rather than the 15 it has now.

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I can confirm that the 388 will be conventional in January.

Regarding the 160, I've spoke to a few operators who have said it's very quiet between Kootenay Loop and Port Moody, but quite busy in Coquitlam itself like mentioned here.  I don't think it'll go to shuttle anytime soon since it's still a vital link in the system should SkyTrain or WCE experience any major delays.  

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Here's something interesting regarding the 555:

Quote

The preliminary thought is that the blocks that are out all day will be operated by RTC and perhaps the trippers will be operated by PTC (with orions) until we receive our full complement of Double Deckers.

~Manager Service Planner

Unsure if this means RTC will operate weekends or not.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

He also re-confirmed that the 301 is going to RTC and will most likely happen in September 2019.

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2 hours ago, Brando737 said:

Regarding the 160, I've spoke to a few operators who have said it's very quiet between Kootenay Loop and Port Moody, but quite busy in Coquitlam itself like mentioned here.  I don't think it'll go to shuttle anytime soon since it's still a vital link in the system should SkyTrain or WCE experience any major delays.  

I used the route quite a lot just to avoid the crowd on the SkyTrain, and I agree that it's very quite in the Burnaby portion under normal condition.... However, if there's a delay in downtown or the bridge that holds up the 95, then it's a completely different story.....

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This will probably be controversial, posting here:

TransLink resolution for SkyTrain proposes cancellation of Fraser Highway B-Line

Important things to know:

  • SkyTrain construction expected to impact the Fraser Hwy B-Line within years of its introduction in 2019
  • The main concern is most permanent infrastructure for the B-Line (i.e. digital next bus signs, shelters, dedicated lanes for buses) would be torn up within years to accommodate for SkyTrain construction. This is what happened for all of the 98 B-Line infrastructures on No. 3 Road (dedicated lanes, shelters, etc) when Canada Line construction began.
  • In lieu of Fraser B-Line, TransLink will improve and redesign the existing 502/503. This will address overcrowding and service quality. The new service could be a combination of local and all-day, limited-stop express service (i.e. improved 503) and for all we know articulated buses might still be introduced.
  • In lieu of Fraser B-Line, existing 96 B-Line to be IMMEDIATELY IMPROVED to the upgraded B-Line standard. These improvements had not been planned for, as the assumption was to replace 96 with LRT by 2023. Now, 96 riders will enjoy new branding, customer information, possibly improved service frequency, and improved infrastructure such as traffic signal priority and more dedicated bus lanes.
  • 'Cost-effective' transit priority measures on Fraser Highway will STILL be pursued.
  • Worth pointing out too but as a trade-off, 503 service will remain as-is (express) instead of converted to a local service. And could be improved significantly as part of the new interim service plan.

47683813_1986683904734724_42545164650775 47579235_1986684664734648_38427904504275 47573918_1986684751401306_68369366034415

Personally, I trust that TransLink will deliver a reasonable interim service plan and solid improvements for Fraser Hwy, but my expectation is that some people (especially in Langley) will be ticked off by what will obviously be presented mainly as the cancellation of the Fraser B-Line. I can already see the objections coming from Langley City (at least certain people). Just hoping people won't forget that this is in lieu of SKYTRAIN coming in 2025.

What are your thoughts everyone?

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Not impressed at all about the cancellation of the Fraser Hwy B-Line.  The 502 is so over-loaded now.  Why could they not proceed with B-Line as planned starting in Sept 2019 - its going to be at least 5 years (likely more) before Skytrain is functional?

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2 SkyTrain extensions in 2025 (Expo to Langley and Millennium to Arbutus) seems like a lot but I won't complain about more SkyTrain service. Looks like the current plan is to order 11 more 5-car trains for the Fraser (Langley) Extension.

In regards to Fraser Highway bus services (502/503), this seems like the better option rather than what was originally proposed, and I'm assuming that resources (most likely from VTC) will be moved to those routes to compensate the loss of the B-Line.

All Fraser Hwy B-Line resources are going to be moved over to the 96 B-Line (including new buses and additional service hours) which means the 96 B-Line could be running as often as every 3-4 minutes during peak times and every 5-6 minutes during off-peak times. Not sure how Newton Exchange is going to handle all those artics, especially in 2021 when the Scott Road B-Line is introduced.

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4 minutes ago, 8010 said:

2 SkyTrain extensions in 2025 (Expo to Langley and Millennium to Arbutus) seems like a lot but I won't complain about more SkyTrain service.

In regards to Fraser Highway bus services (502/503), this seems like the better option rather than what was originally proposed, and I'm assuming that resources (most likely from VTC) will be moved to those routes to compensate the loss of the B-Line.

All Fraser Hwy B-Line resources are going to be moved over to the 96 B-Line (including new buses and additional service hours) which means the 96 B-Line could be running as often as every 3-4 minutes during peak times and every 5-6 minutes during off-peak times. Not sure how Newton Exchange is going to handle all those artics, especially in 2021 when the Scott Road B-Line is introduced.

So with the new proposal, the 96 B-Line will be there indefinitely since LRT was cancelled?

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