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Transit Service Discussion (Articulated/Conventional/Shuttle/Skytrain/Seabus)

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51 minutes ago, R8015 said:

SB 351 OVERLOADS:

Lv Bridgeport: 1755 and 1820

Both overload trips terminate at WHITE ROCK CENTRE (single run from Bridgeport to White Rock Centre and NIS to the yard)

Run number wise, the 1755 trip is 92/601 and the 1820 trip is 93/601.

These trips were initiated  about 2 weeks ago to address complaints regarding pass ups between Bridgeport and SSPR. Also note that the overloads are NOT trackable and both runs are OT pieces, so if it's unsigned = no show

R9223.jpg

R9240.jpg

I wonder if trips like these will be properly added to the schedule with the next service changes, or if they will just keep them as "bonus" trips. I don't see why they wouldn't fully add them, but with the other mid-sheet changes recently (new 301 stops, discontinuing the 259, etc) it feels like they could have just done that from the start.

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10 hours ago, ThatBusGuy said:

I wonder if trips like these will be properly added to the schedule with the next service changes, or if they will just keep them as "bonus" trips. I don't see why they wouldn't fully add them, but with the other mid-sheet changes recently (new 301 stops, discontinuing the 259, etc) it feels like they could have just done that from the start.

They will usually update the online schedules to add these extra trips if they are to be permanent.  However the print schedules will not be updated.  If these extra trips are working well then they will most likely be built into indexes for the next sheet.

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Just now, Brando737 said:

They will usually update the online schedules to add these extra trips if they are to be permanent.  However the print schedules will not be updated.  If these extra trips are working well then they will most likely be built into indexes for the next sheet.

They did update the 319 print schedule when they added the extra trips. But even then, that increase had an alert sent out for it.

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Any word on possible winter service changes? Aside from B-Line changes for September 2019 all of the Phase 1 bus improvements are done, and with the Novas about to enter service in the weeks to come I assume some service expansion is expected to happen.

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On my phone right now. I recall there being a diagram somewhere of a Lion's Gate - Victoria B-Line concept that TransLink was actually considering. While I like the idea, part of me feels that the Hastings corridor is overdue for some sort of transit priority measures; the 95 often skips passengers and gets trapped during rush hours between Downtown and Kootenay Loop. Maybe it's time to explore rail transit down that way to relieve the congestion?

(If this is more appropriate for fantasy, let me know and I'll bump it over.)

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54 minutes ago, Millennium2002 said:

On my phone right now. I recall there being a diagram somewhere of a Lion's Gate - Victoria B-Line concept that TransLink was actually considering. While I like the idea, part of me feels that the Hastings corridor is overdue for some sort of transit priority measures; the 95 often skips passengers and gets trapped during rush hours between Downtown and Kootenay Loop. Maybe it's time to explore rail transit down that way to relieve the congestion?

(If this is more appropriate for fantasy, let me know and I'll bump it over.)

Maybe add a new WCE stop @ McGill and Bridgeway

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1 hour ago, TranslinkKid said:

Who in the world would get off/on a train there?

Idk, just a thought, maybe add a bus loop there which the 160 has its terminus, or something.

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I don't think the West Coast Express will still be around in twenty years. I think CP is going to force the service off of its mainline to make room for more freight trains.

IMO we should be planning in the long term for a new SkyTrain line along Hastings between downtown Vancouver and Moody Centre. (An Expo Line extension might make the line too long and too unreliable, even as a fully automated and grade-separated service.)

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7 minutes ago, GORDOOM said:

I don't think the West Coast Express will still be around in twenty years. I think CP is going to force the service off of its mainline to make room for more freight trains.

IMO we should be planning in the long term for a new SkyTrain line along Hastings between downtown Vancouver and Moody Centre. (An Expo Line extension might make the line too long and too unreliable, even as a fully automated and grade-separated service.)

And all-day bus service from Haney to Mission

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I think LRT or BRT would be a good option for Hastings.  SkyTrain would be way to expensive for that distance and a waste of money with the current Millenium line being so close to that corridor.

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7 hours ago, Brando737 said:

I think LRT or BRT would be a good option for Hastings.  SkyTrain would be way to expensive for that distance and a waste of money with the current Millenium line being so close to that corridor.

First of all, if anything, the density along Hastings means that it's even more justified there than on Lougheed. Second, it's not just about local traffic on Hastings. As I said earlier, part of the reason I think this project needs to be a priority is because we need to have a plan for replacing the West Coast Express - if freight volumes continue to grow, CP won't have room for the WCE trains on their mainline west of PoCo much longer. A subway line underneath Hastings would kill both birds with a single stone.

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Having taken the 135 and 95 over the past several years, I've observed that there is insufficient room for additional buses along that corridor during weekday rush hours. On top of that, we have numerous bus routes overlapping with each other on their way downtown: 7, 14, 16, 20, 95, 210, 211. I think we can do better than send more buses through a snail's crawl of a corridor.

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14 hours ago, Millennium2002 said:

Having taken the 135 and 95 over the past several years, I've observed that there is insufficient room for additional buses along that corridor during weekday rush hours. On top of that, we have numerous bus routes overlapping with each other on their way downtown: 7, 14, 16, 20, 95, 210, 211. I think we can do better than send more buses through a snail's glacier's  crawl of a corridor.

I see faster moving glaciers breaking off in the far north than all of these buses during rush hours, especially when you have all of the Hastings traffic entering/leaving the Second Narrows bridge. The bridge traffic is the bane of the 95's existence.

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2 hours ago, Firebrand said:

I see faster moving glaciers breaking off in the far north than all of these buses during rush hours, especially when you have all of the Hastings traffic entering/leaving the Second Narrows bridge. The bridge traffic is the bane of the 95's existence.

Couldn't agree more.  The traffic lights also don't help at all between Clarke and Renfrew outside of peak hours, traffic just crawls.  

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21 hours ago, GORDOOM said:

First of all, if anything, the density along Hastings means that it's even more justified there than on Lougheed. Second, it's not just about local traffic on Hastings. As I said earlier, part of the reason I think this project needs to be a priority is because we need to have a plan for replacing the West Coast Express - if freight volumes continue to grow, CP won't have room for the WCE trains on their mainline west of PoCo much longer. A subway line underneath Hastings would kill both birds with a single stone.

Solution:

Use the ROW from PoCo down to Braid, then through the Grandview Cut. We need more tracks there for express/regional service to Surrey/Langley, and the valley anyway (Expo line reliever), so why not make use of them for the current/expanded WCE as well?

Have high capacity LRT on Hastings from Tri-cities to downtown, and serve the regional purpose with a dedicated regional corridor serving both SoF and the Valley  along with the PoCo/Coquitlam and out to Mission.

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3 hours ago, maege said:

Solution:

Have high capacity LRT on Hastings from Tri-cities to downtown, and serve the regional purpose with a dedicated regional corridor serving both SoF and the Valley  along with the PoCo/Coquitlam and out to Mission.

I'm rather new to this forum (so pardon me if I'm repeating what others have said), but I don't really think a tram on Hastings would work, especially if it's going from tri-cities (and essentially replacing the 160 and parts of the 14). As stated earlier, a big problem on the 95 is traffic lights that are littered everywhere on Hastings. Even if it's fully grade-separated, a surface rail would probably still have to navigate through these traffic lights which means that travel would not be faster enough to justify the cost of building a tram system.

Either that or I just don't know how trams work.

A better solution would be to do as you say, which is expand the WCE (CP Rail allowing) or maybe extend the Millennium Line further east. For Hastings, a proper metro line would be the only practical solution in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, bob32189 said:

For Hastings, a proper metro line would be the only practical solution in my opinion.

Not to mention how much the city would have to shelve out to make room along Hastings for an elevated guideway and/or a cut-and-cover tunnel for 15 km followed by a 5 km bored tunnel under Burnaby Mountain! Thankfully the city has a decade or two to get everything sorted out, by which time there could be either higher demand for such a service or none at all.

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Even with the slope of the skytrain line, there will need to be an indirect routing to get to the peak of the university, or involve an escalator longer than Granville station. 

Just extend the SFU gondola down Hastings street. Lol

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42 minutes ago, Express691 said:

Even with the slope of the skytrain line, there will need to be an indirect routing to get to the peak of the university, or involve an escalator longer than Granville station. 

Just extend the SFU gondola down Hastings street. Lol

This would be phenomenally expensive, but maybe build a full metro line to Kootenay Loop (which then can turn southbound to Metrodown via Willingdon and Brentwood) and then cut the 95 to Kootenay Loop/SFU. That way there is no need to build a gondola

(edited portion) - As far as the WCE goes, it all depends on CP rail, so we can see I guess

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14 minutes ago, bob32189 said:

This would be phenomenally expensive, but maybe build a full metro line to Kootenay Loop (which then can turn southbound to Metrodown via Willingdon and Brentwood) and then cut the 95 to Kootenay Loop/SFU. That way there is no need to build a gondola

...if you can get the permit to remove buildings to expand space or get a viable turnaround option. Even then I think Hastings/Pender might be a viable terminus.

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13 hours ago, bob32189 said:

I'm rather new to this forum (so pardon me if I'm repeating what others have said), but I don't really think a tram on Hastings would work, especially if it's going from tri-cities (and essentially replacing the 160 and parts of the 14). As stated earlier, a big problem on the 95 is traffic lights that are littered everywhere on Hastings. Even if it's fully grade-separated, a surface rail would probably still have to navigate through these traffic lights which means that travel would not be faster enough to justify the cost of building a tram system.

Either that or I just don't know how trams work.

A better solution would be to do as you say, which is expand the WCE (CP Rail allowing) or maybe extend the Millennium Line further east. For Hastings, a proper metro line would be the only practical solution in my opinion.

I would envision the LRT most likely being in the median on it's own ROW (see image below), possibly with some elevated sections if needed to help with grade or particularly problematic areas (maybe around Hwy 1?)

street-scene.jpg

Note, that the main purpose of this LRT system would be as follows:
1. Massively increase capacity to avoid the over-crowding that already exists.
2. Somewhat improve travel time due to more priority and further separated ROW
3. Further segregate transit from traffic with  to minimize disruptions from cars and make it more reliable.
4. Grow the existing medium-density that fronts Hastings for much of it's length to ~500m on either side of Hastings to improve walk-ability and live-ability.

As for the lights, the LRT should have complete priority over all the lights secondary intersections (there's a lot pedestrian/bike triggered lights), which would be relatively simple to build when the system is constructed, and would also have priority at major intersections, but may occasionally have to stop depending on the frequency of the line (basically timing a full-cycle of the lights, meshed with the frequency of the LRT). This could even occur now with the B-line, but I'm not sure the cities/Translink are willing to put in the cost as a stand-alone piece.

So yes, the lights are an issue, but it is totally solvable by building in transit-priority at the lights.

The downside of building more Skytrain lines, subways, etc is that there is a giant opportunity cost. As an example, for the cost of extending a Millennium line subway to UBC (~14km, $7-8B), you could build 70-120km of surface rail (LRT, regional rail, etc). That could mean a Hastings line (from Park Royal, across the 1st Narrows, to Barnet Hwy and PoCo) plus a 41st Ave line (from UBC to Joyce) plus a Marine Dr line (from New Westminster to Marpole).

I'm not saying that we shouldn't extend the Broadway line to UBC, but we need to be aware that the technology and grade (above, below, or at-grade) chosen has a massive impact on the scale of what we are able to build.

12 hours ago, ThatBusGuy said:

Two words:
Hastings Gondola

12 hours ago, Express691 said:

Even with the slope of the skytrain line, there will need to be an indirect routing to get to the peak of the university, or involve an escalator longer than Granville station. 

Just extend the SFU gondola down Hastings street. Lol

Yes. The best way to get to SFU will be gondola. From SFU to Duthie or Kensington, connecting with the Hastings line. It will literally save Billions of dollars compared to trying to tunnel under the mountain, provide a much more frequent service, and provide a unique draw for tourists and locals vs a tunnel.

11 hours ago, bob32189 said:

This would be phenomenally expensive, but maybe build a full metro line to Kootenay Loop (which then can turn southbound to Metrodown via Willingdon and Brentwood) and then cut the 95 to Kootenay Loop/SFU. That way there is no need to build a gondola 

Gondolas are cheap AF compared to any other form of rapid transit and can easily run in virtually all weather, unlike buses (and sometimes trains in the snow not working).

If you want phenomenally expensive, doing your proposed route  as a "full metro" would be accurate for that language. That ~15km route, fully tunneled, as a metro would cost ~$7.5-8.5B.

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