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Transit Service Discussion (Articulated/Conventional/Shuttle/Skytrain/Seabus)


cleowin

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TransLink did provide a reason in their recent board meeting; it was that Cubic has stopped making new units for them.

I do wonder when Cubic stopped, however, because it seems like very little notice was given to TransLink prior to their plans to expand the fleet. In any case, TransLink did not have enough spares to go around and thus decided to take them off the shuttle fleet as a stop-gap measure.

I think another forum-er did say that we may see a full fledged replacement of fare-boxes soon. That, however, will be a very complicated endeavour.

If I recall correctly, all of the fare collection equipment thus far - fareboxes, Compass readers, and controllers - have been manufactured and programmed by Cubic, which has made on-board systems integration comparatively easy and stress-free.

However, in the interests of cost savings, driver comfort, and passenger convenience, TransLink may be obligated to submit a future fleet-wide replacement project to a public evaluation and competitive bidding process. And yet, if we do this, we basically open up a can of worms. For example:

  • Do the farebox controllers and card readers stay with Cubic or not? If not, then we need to procure a lot more than just fareboxes.
  • Which supplier will get to control and integrate all of the pieces?
    • If Cubic's controller is retained, then we'll need to hire them to re-program the controllers for the new equipment, which will necessitate a separate contract and a competitive bidding exception.
    • If not, then we have to both procure new controllers and pay for someone to program it as well.
  • Will the new equipment communicate with existing back office hardware / systems? Or will those have to be re-programmed or replaced too?

Depending on what is selected, the overall project may end up costing us many millions of dollars extra... and here is where TransLink may have missed the mark, because I get the feeling that they did not plan for this. Otherwise, we would not have installed manual fare-boxes on the shuttles - we would have definitely gone for something else with more bells and whistles.

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3 hours ago, 8010 said:

Did TransLink ever give a reason as to why they're using basic fareboxes in their shuttles now? My guess is... "we're broke and can't afford more Cubic fareboxes for our conventional fleet so the shuttles can suffer."

What do you mean by « basic fare box »

Is that when there is not controller beside it?

is there a picture of the « basic fare box »

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9 minutes ago, briguychau said:

Here's a screenshot from the board meeting.

It looks like either the Classic Cartridge or the Classic design from this page: http://www.fareboxe.com/

farebox.png

ONG these look like something they pulled out of the old looks, stored then for 30+ years and right before throwing then away some Translink executive who does nothing but sit in his office is like "Hey, let’s put those in our new shuttles because our planning is soo poor we did think of the scenario where the fare boxes we use go out of production"

The people who make these decisions are probably people who have never taken the bus, drive around town in their corvette and only come in contact with a bus when they rear end it at 1am when coming back for the local bar

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https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/translink-to-issue-paper-transfers-on-community-shuttle-buses

The local news caught word of the change. I remember using similar tickets from a long long time ago...

This is borderline off-topic, but for my own curiosity's sake, I looked around for current fare-box offerings to see if any could replace what we have in place today... Sadly, Cubic doesn't publicly talk about their products anymore, which is a shame.

Genfare, on the other hand, has various suitable offerings on display. Two examples that might work for us are:

At first glance, both look like they function similarly to our current hardware; my only concern is how the smartcard / transfer readers are placed furthest away from the aisle for both products.

As a bonus, a cursory search on Google reveals that some other transit agencies have already asked Cubic to integrate Genfare products with their own controller for a fee. If we could piggyback on that progress, we could possibly save some time and a few dollars.

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7 hours ago, Millennium2002 said:

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/translink-to-issue-paper-transfers-on-community-shuttle-buses

The local news caught word of the change. I remember using similar tickets from a long long time ago...

This is borderline off-topic, but for my own curiosity's sake, I looked around for current fare-box offerings to see if any could replace what we have in place today... Sadly, Cubic doesn't publicly talk about their products anymore, which is a shame.

Genfare, on the other hand, has various suitable offerings on display. Two examples that might work for us are the "Fast Fare" or the "Odyssey Plus"... At first glance, both look like they function similarly to our current hardware; my only concern is how the smartcard / transfer readers are placed furthest away from the aisle for both products.

As a bonus, a cursory search on Google reveals that some other transit agencies have already asked Cubic to integrate Genfare products with their own controller for a fee. If we could piggyback on that progress, we could possibly save some time and a few dollars.

The Odyssey looks like what BC Transit uses

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I personally like the Duncan (manual) farebox and paper tear off transfers because it NEVER BREAKS DOWN unlike the electronic mag strip ones we have.

I was with Edmonton transit prior to CMBC, ETS uses Duncan fareboxes and I never had an issue with them.

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2 hours ago, Community Shuttle said:

The Odyssey looks like what BC Transit uses

Actually, from riding the FVX, I think they use Genfare Transview units instead: https://www.genfare.com/products/transview/

As an add-on to my previous reply, MARTA is contracting Cubic to integrate Genfare fare-boxes into their existing controllers:

https://www.cubic.com/news-events/news/cubic-integrate-atlantas-xpress-next-generation-bus-fareboxes-marta-breeze-back

And as a historical precedent, San Francisco's MUNI made the switch from Cubic to Genfare a few years back:

https://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/files/agendaitems/2016/6-28-16 Item 11 Contract - fareboxes.pdf

Anyway, if this topic keeps going, maybe it deserves its own thread? ;)

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3 hours ago, briguychau said:

If they are going to replace the fareboxes on all the buses they should get some which can dispense compass tickets so people who pay cash on the bus can still transfer to the SkyTrain/SeaBus without paying again...

I wouldn't mind this... In fact, SkyTrain did have the equipment for this prior to Compass, as the ticket machines were capable of validating and upgrading tickets. But if you really consider it, it would have generated twice the amount of waste to adapt it to what we had back then...

  1. Person buys ticket on bus
  2. Person transfers to SkyTrain
  3. Person inserts ticket into TVM
  4. TVM gives them a new Compass-enabled ticket!?

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't mean to double post. Usually the auto-reply-merge feature saves me...

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I'm casting another vote for the "Compass mobile validators only on buses" option. It would streamline passenger loading, reduce the dangers to operators arising from fare disputes, and reduce maintenance costs relating to the fare-collection system. A passenger who doesn't have a credit card (like yours truly), or even who doesn't have a bank account, can obtain and reload a Compass card using cash. (That said, I would advocate installing more CVMs away from SkyTrain stations, at bus exchanges, community centres, and the like, in part as a means of ensuring good access to the transit system for such individuals.)

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14 minutes ago, GORDOOM said:

I'm casting another vote for the "Compass mobile validators only on buses" option. It would streamline passenger loading, reduce the dangers to operators arising from fare disputes, and reduce maintenance costs relating to the fare-collection system. A passenger who doesn't have a credit card (like yours truly), or even who doesn't have a bank account, can obtain and reload a Compass card using cash. (That said, I would advocate installing more CVMs away from SkyTrain stations, at bus exchanges, community centres, and the like, in part as a means of ensuring good access to the transit system for such individuals.)

The more I think about it, the more I feel like:

  • We should move away from one-time-use paper or Compass tickets
  • The future bus fare-boxes should just eject a full-fledged Compass Card upon payment of a full deposit, but with the first ride being free
  • There should be an automatic way of collecting and refunding unused Compass Cards that are still in good condition
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1 hour ago, Urban_Monkey Transit said:

Anyone know what's gonna be in the Spring Service Changes?

Basically a bunch of schedule consistency fixes and minor improvements.

1 hour ago, Millennium2002 said:

The more I think about it, the more I feel like:

  • We should move away from one-time-use paper or Compass tickets
  • The future bus fare-boxes should just eject a full-fledged Compass Card upon payment of a full deposit, but with the first ride being free
  • There should be an automatic way of collecting and refunding unused Compass Cards that are still in good condition

I think TL Should switch over to Genfare first and then explore possible options for removing one-time-use tickets.

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1 hour ago, Urban_Monkey Transit said:

Anyone know what's gonna be in the Spring Service Changes?

Back between 2 and 10 pages. I forgot which page it was and dont have time to backtrack.

Spring meeting report says that they're extending the layovers on some blocks in PCT/STC (specifically the ones that are shorter than 5 minutes).

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4 hours ago, Millennium2002 said:

The more I think about it, the more I feel like:

  • We should move away from one-time-use paper or Compass tickets
  • The future bus fare-boxes should just eject a full-fledged Compass Card upon payment of a full deposit, but with the first ride being free
  • There should be an automatic way of collecting and refunding unused Compass Cards that are still in good condition
3 hours ago, 8010 said:

I think TL Should switch over to Genfare first and then explore possible options for removing one-time-use tickets.

Note that my statements imply something happening in the future. ;)

Also, they are connected in a way; the mechanism to eject a hard plastic card can be quite different from that which prints a flexible paper ticket. Now I suppose we can upgrade in multiple stages like we are doing now (cough cough), but that doesn't seem like a good use of time or money.

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13 minutes ago, Millennium2002 said:

Note that my statements imply something happening in the future. ;)

Also, they are connected in a way; the mechanism to eject a hard, plastic card can be quite different from that which prints and ejects a flexible, paper-like ticket. Now I suppose we can upgrade in multiple stages like we are doing now (cough cough), but that doesn't seem like a good use of time or money.

Ahhhhh... I see what you did there. ? Touche. 

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26 minutes ago, nname said:

Maple Ridge/Pitt Meadows ATP

https://www.translink.ca/Plans-and-Projects/Area-Planning/Maple-Ridge-Pitt-Meadows-Area-Transport-Plan.aspx

I expected more changes though, like new service to YPK and Golden Ears Park... Isn't ATP regularly have a whole lot of changes broken down to short-term, medium-term, and long-term?

I'm rolling my eyes on their comments of the 791 - all they give is instructions on how to access the Expo/go to Surrey from MR on weekends and evenings. No mention of extending 791 hours on weekends.

They clearly miss the point on this one: bypassing Coquitlam.

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