WMATA Washington

[Chris.A]

Is it safe to say that the 2000 Orion Vs are now retired?  Haven't seen one in service since September and it appears that only #2105 remains @ FMR, parked alongside a couple retired 2005 Orion VII OG CNGs,

[WMATAC40LF]

6 hours ago, Chris.A said:

Is it safe to say that the 2000 Orion Vs are now retired?  Haven't seen one in service since September and it appears that only #2105 remains @ FMR, parked alongside a couple retired 2005 Orion VII OG CNGs,

Its safe to say they are retired from regular service. A few are still on hand should reserves ever be needed. I saw 2105 at FMR the other week, and unlike the two VIIs next to it, it had not been stripped. I'll be interested to see how long they keep the reserve Vs around, because a bunch of new retirements are supposed to start happening next year. CNG buses will obviously be sent off to scrap because their tanks are expiring (meaning they won't be a reserve fleet), but I'm not sure about the lifespans of the hybrid battery packs. It could very well be that if WMATA continues to keep a reserve fleet, some of the Vs will hang around till the retirement of the D40LFRs. 

[Chris.A]

5 hours ago, WMATAC40LF said:

Its safe to say they are retired from regular service. A few are still on hand should reserves ever be needed. I saw 2105 at FMR the other week, and unlike the two VIIs next to it, it had not been stripped. I'll be interested to see how long they keep the reserve Vs around, because a bunch of new retirements are supposed to start happening next year. CNG buses will obviously be sent off to scrap because their tanks are expiring (meaning they won't be a reserve fleet), but I'm not sure about the lifespans of the hybrid battery packs. It could very well be that if WMATA continues to keep a reserve fleet, some of the Vs will hang around till the retirement of the D40LFRs. 

I was thinking that too, about the D40LFRs. But the 2006 Orion VII OG CNGs are tanked til 2021 or so, so they in theory could also go to storage for a little while. MTA NYCTA's Orion VII OG CNGs are just slightly older then these and a number of those are still hanging around for now, so WMATA can do it too. Did Ride-on get rid of theirs?

[Chris.A]

This maybe a sign of things to come, but I spotted 2 New Flyer DE42LFAs training along the service road parallel to I-95 this morning heading north to Springfield. (units #6301 and #6317).

[Orion6025]

On 11/26/2018 at 12:41 AM, WMATAC40LF said:

new retirements are supposed to start happening next year

We talking '06 de40lf and de40lfr here?

[vvozz]

2 hours ago, Chris.A said:

This maybe a sign of things to come, but I spotted 2 New Flyer DE42LFAs training along the service road parallel to I-95 this morning heading north to Springfield. (units #6301 and #6317).

6301 and 6317 are the training buses for Cinder Bed. I believe from the contract info I read on wmata's site 6301-6365 will be assigned there but some 30 FT Orion 7's 

[Chris.A]

Also spotted #6539 working the shuttle.

[WMATAC40LF]

On 11/26/2018 at 6:04 AM, Chris.A said:

I was thinking that too, about the D40LFRs. But the 2006 Orion VII OG CNGs are tanked til 2021 or so, so they in theory could also go to storage for a little while. MTA NYCTA's Orion VII OG CNGs are just slightly older then these and a number of those are still hanging around for now, so WMATA can do it too. Did Ride-on get rid of theirs?

They wouldn't want CNGs as a reserve fleet, because they can only operate out of three divisions (whereas diesels and hybrids can operate out of every division).

Ride-On got rid of their older VIIs (in fact several have been put up for sale), and the others should be on their way out soon.

18 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

We talking '06 de40lf and de40lfr here?

It should mostly be the older OBI VII CNGs that haven't been retired yet. WMATA documents I saw from a couple of years ago implied that 6001-6039 would be retired in 2019, but I'm not sure if that's still the plan. (They will supposedly be replaced with XD40s) 

17 hours ago, vvozz said:

6301 and 6317 are the training buses for Cinder Bed. I believe from the contract info I read on wmata's site 6301-6365 will be assigned there but some 30 FT Orion 7's 

That sounds about right. The 30 footers are 3082-3087, which are used on TAGS. 

[Chris.A]

According to ETA, #2579 is working the B2, so it appears that there's still a few #2500's active (I know for a fact that #2528 and #2563 are both also still in service). Additionally, it seems like Bladensburg just picked up a few more Orion VII CNGs from Four Mile Run, cause #2609 and #2613 are also doing H line runs. Any word on the status of the new XDE60s?

[Chris.A]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 4:58 PM, WMATAC40LF said:

They wouldn't want CNGs as a reserve fleet, because they can only operate out of three divisions (whereas diesels and hybrids can operate out of every division).

Ride-On got rid of their older VIIs (in fact several have been put up for sale), and the others should be on their way out soon.

It should mostly be the older OBI VII CNGs that haven't been retired yet. WMATA documents I saw from a couple of years ago implied that 6001-6039 would be retired in 2019, but I'm not sure if that's still the plan. (They will supposedly be replaced with XD40s) 

That sounds about right. The 30 footers are 3082-3087, which are used on TAGS. 

I wouldn't be surprised if those go to storage to replace the remaining 2000 Orion Vs in storage. Wonder if the 2007 New Flyer C40LFRs are gone after next year too? We already know that the 2008 NABI BRT-60 CNG Artics are slated for retirement the year after that.

In other news, if not mentioned already, there are two retired 1999-2000 Fairfax connector Orion Vs sitting in a scrap yard in near Montclair in Prince William county. Anyone know why they got rid of their 40ft Orion Vs early?

[WMATAC40LF]

On 12/3/2018 at 6:35 PM, Chris.A said:

According to ETA, #2579 is working the B2, so it appears that there's still a few #2500's active (I know for a fact that #2528 and #2563 are both also still in service). Additionally, it seems like Bladensburg just picked up a few more Orion VII CNGs from Four Mile Run, cause #2609 and #2613 are also doing H line runs. Any word on the status of the new XDE60s?

There are still some 2500s around, and they won't all be retired until sometime next year. Some of the XDE60s have been doing training runs at the Montgomery Division, but haven't entered regular service yet.

8 hours ago, Chris.A said:

I wouldn't be surprised if those go to storage to replace the remaining 2000 Orion Vs in storage. Wonder if the 2007 New Flyer C40LFRs are gone after next year too? We already know that the 2008 NABI BRT-60 CNG Artics are slated for retirement the year after that.

In other news, if not mentioned already, there are two retired 1999-2000 Fairfax connector Orion Vs sitting in a scrap yard in near Montclair in Prince William county. Anyone know why they got rid of their 40ft Orion Vs early?

The C40LFRs will probably stick around until late 2020 or 2021. 

[Chris.A]

17 hours ago, WMATAC40LF said:

There are still some 2500s around, and they won't all be retired until sometime next year. Some of the XDE60s have been doing training runs at the Montgomery Division, but haven't entered regular service yet.

The C40LFRs will probably stick around until late 2020 or 2021. 

Are anymore XN40s coming in for next year? I don't see how they can retire the 2006-2007 Orion VII CNGs as well as whatever 2005 CNGs are left by then without one.

[Chris.A]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:06 PM, WMATAC40LF said:

There are still some 2500s around, and they won't all be retired until sometime next year. Some of the XDE60s have been doing training runs at the Montgomery Division, but haven't entered regular service yet.

The C40LFRs will probably stick around until late 2020 or 2021. 

Any chance that the next bus order could resume the 8000 series or even 9000s? That series hasn't been in use since the last Metro Bs retired earlier this decade.

[WMATAC40LF]

On 12/7/2018 at 4:03 PM, Chris.A said:

Are anymore XN40s coming in for next year? I don't see how they can retire the 2006-2007 Orion VII CNGs as well as whatever 2005 CNGs are left by then without one.

The new contract with New Flyer includes additional XN40s, and some should arrive next year.

2 hours ago, Chris.A said:

Any chance that the next bus order could resume the 8000 series or even 9000s? That series hasn't been in use since the last Metro Bs retired earlier this decade.

At this stage nobody really knows. If they were to carry on their previous numbering patterns, XN40s would be 3200 and up, and artics would be 5492 and up. The 40 foot diesels are a bit more of a wildcard, although it might make sense to number them above the last XDE40s delivered (in the 7400s). Anyway this is all just speculation - we'll have to wait and see what they do.

[Chris.A]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:49 PM, WMATAC40LF said:

The new contract with New Flyer includes additional XN40s, and some should arrive next year.

At this stage nobody really knows. If they were to carry on their previous numbering patterns, XN40s would be 3200 and up, and artics would be 5492 and up. The 40 foot diesels are a bit more of a wildcard, although it might make sense to number them above the last XDE40s delivered (in the 7400s). Anyway this is all just speculation - we'll have to wait and see what they do.

I was thinking the next wave of XN40s would be in the 3200-3300 range. I have a feeling they'll number the XD40s in the 4000s for some reason. I mean, there is nothing there currently (unless you count #4271 and the 2 training 1997 Orion Vs). Haven't seen a new bus in the 4000s since the 1990s.

[Chris.A]

As of the last few days, there have been reports of Orion Vs returning to service on SP depot lines. So far, #2104, #2114, #2115, #2124, and #2227 have been seen on routes like the A6, A8, and others. This might be in preparation for the Cinder Bed depot opening in the coming weeks/,month. Since SP is about to lose most of their 2009 New Flyer DE42LFAs to CB, I would assume that some 2000 Orion Vs maybe heading their way as a sort of stop gap measure until more new buses arrive sometime next year. Can anyone else confirm this, because I'm not sure why else the Orion Vs are returning to service (to an extent), coupled that CB have at least 3 DE42LFAs on their property now (#6301, #6314, and #6317)?

[Chris.A]

Several 2000 Orion Vs were in service today. #2114, #2119, and #2124, possibly others as well on ETA. In addition the new 2018 XDE60s are now on the move. #5487 was tracked on ETA working on the W lines. At this time, Bladensburg is get a piece of this 12  bus batch. Personally, I think they should all go to one depot since this is such a small order.

[WMATAC40LF]

Yeah there were like a dozen or so Vs in service the other day. These things just won't die (and to me, that's hardly a bad thing). 

It is rather surprising to see the new XDE60s on Bladensburg routes, but I'm not sure if this will be a permanent placement. 

[Chris.A]

14 hours ago, WMATAC40LF said:

Yeah there were like a dozen or so Vs in service the other day. These things just won't die (and to me, that's hardly a bad thing). 

It is rather surprising to see the new XDE60s on Bladensburg routes, but I'm not sure if this will be a permanent placement. 

It's probably until the XN60s come in 2020 or so. As for the Orion Vs, looks like it's time to go hunting again. BTW, what's the highest 7000 series car in service? At last check it was #7530s-7540s and that was back in Sept/October.

[WMATAC40LF]

20 minutes ago, Chris.A said:

BTW, what's the highest 7000 series car in service? At last check it was #7530s-7540s and that was back in Sept/October.

I don't know exact numbers, but I've seen photos of cars in the low 7600s. 

[Chris.A]

5 minutes ago, WMATAC40LF said:

I don't know exact numbers, but I've seen photos of cars in the low 7600s. 

So at this rate the order should be complete by late summer 2019 or so? In other news. according to a youtube source, 75 more XN40s are on the way for next year along with 25 new XD40s. I'd assume around 50 XN40s to FMR to replace some of their 2006 Orion VII OG CNGs (and whatever 2005s are left) and 25 to Bladensburg to replace their 2006 Orion VII OG CNGs (basically kill off the few remaining 2500s and most of the 2600s). The XD40s will likely kill off the rest of the 2000 Orion Vs (for real this time) and some 2005 New Flyer DE40LFs. 2020 is said to get even more XN40s to retire the rest of the 2600s and all the 2700s and possibly the 2800s (C40LFRs) as well ( the fate of the 3000s CNGs are unknown at the moment, though I suppose an order of XN35 can't be ruled out). Then of course new CNG artics (most likely XN60s) will kill of the 2008 NABI BRT-60 CNG buses.

[WMATAC40LF]

Upcoming orders are apparently:

75 XN40s and 25 XD40s for 2019.

75 XN40s and 25 XD40s for 2020.

The 22 XN60s (2020 models I believe) should replace the NABI CNG artics. 

I won't play any guessing games as to where any of these buses will be stationed, apart from of course the XN60s, which should end up at Bladensburg. The big contract they signed with NFI didn't have any options for 35 foot buses, so I really can't say what will happen to the 30 foot Orion CNGs. It could very well be that they are just replaced with XN40s.

[Chris.A]

11 hours ago, WMATAC40LF said:

Upcoming orders are apparently:

75 XN40s and 25 XD40s for 2019.

75 XN40s and 25 XD40s for 2020.

The 22 XN60s (2020 models I believe) should replace the NABI CNG artics. 

I won't play any guessing games as to where any of these buses will be stationed, apart from of course the XN60s, which should end up at Bladensburg. The big contract they signed with NFI didn't have any options for 35 foot buses, so I really can't say what will happen to the 30 foot Orion CNGs. It could very well be that they are just replaced with XN40s.

Well, that is possible. Didn't the DE37LFAs replace the Orion IIs? Or did they replace the 35 ft Flexible Metro Bs while the 30ft 1999 Orion Vs retired the 1999-2000 Orion IIs? That was always a mystery to me since I usually just cover metrobus moves in northern Virginia. Going back from memory, when Arlington depot closed down back in early '09, They lost their 1995 Metro E's to Northern and Montgomery (and Western too I believe) depots while their 1991 35ft Metro Bs went to Landover I want to say. West Ox at this point was 75% Orion V and the rest was Orion VIs. They got their shipment of brand new DE37LFAs in Sept of that year followed shortly soon after by secondhand DE42LFAs from Western. West Ox at this point had 30ft Orion Vs (low 3900s), so they left and went somewhere else. All this suggest that they indirectly replaced 25-30ft buses with 40ft ones. Then of course later in summer 2009, Royal street lost their 1990 Metro Bs to another depot and got more Orion Vs from elsewhere.

[Chris.A]

Ok, so from what I gathered, these are the Orion 5.501s still in service:

#2105, #2114-2115, 2119, 2124, 2130, 2136, 2140, 2144, 2149, 2170?, 2193-2194, 2227. I'll keep an eye out for others. Also, does Bladensburg have D40LFRs still from that XN40 fiasco earlier this year? I keep seeing some on Bladensburg routes...

 

Also #2654 is @ Bladensburg now along with the rest of the lower #2600s, leaving FMR with around 75-80 or so Orion VII OG CNGs.

[Chris.A]

Add #2101, #2123, #2159-2160, #2164, and #2176 to the remaining Orion V fleet. Also, seems that #2654 is really at Sheppard's parkway along with #2662 and maybe a few more Orion 7 CNGs. I think SP's CNG station had a soft opening and will probably go onto fulltime CNG operation by next into 2020 with the 3200-3300 series XN40s arrive soon. I don't think that entire set of #2654-2662 is at SP depot because #2656 was working the 16G yesterday.