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Greyhound in the news

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5 hours ago, ns8401 said:

 

In Missouri a Greyhound driver blew some windows out when he backed into a tree. The solution? Move the passengers away from the broken glass and keep on busin’...

https://www.ksdk.com/mobile/article/news/local/greyhound-bus-damaged-on-way-from-st-louis-to-kc/63-565815790

Reminds of one night a Seattle Schedule was leaving Vancouver but some reason the outside pane shattered. Being the bus came up from the South, we had no spares. Nor a replacement pane to put on. Told the driver we couldn't do anything for him. Late night, and no parts. In the end another schedule came up and switched everyone over, but the replacement bus couldn't be serviced or cleaned. Felt bad for the passengers on board.

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Wow, that is amazing....

It looks like she is a rookie driver (wearing the tell-tale "black and white" uniform).   I wonder if she made that decision to continue on, on her own, or was instructed to do so.

Good thing the DOT didn't happen to see that...

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2 hours ago, traildriver said:

Wow, that is amazing....

It looks like she is a rookie driver (wearing the tell-tale "black and white" uniform).   I wonder if she made that decision to continue on, on her own, or was instructed to do so.

Good thing the DOT didn't happen to see that...

No kidding... I’m not sure that “the company made me do it” would cover her if they caught it driving that way in service...

 

Meanwhile a wheelchair bound double amputee in Arkansas tried to take a 28 hour trip to Colorado to attend a coin collecting convention... he arrived 48 hours later urine soaked and without his luggage...

http://gazette.com/disabled-bus-passenger-put-through-48-hour-ordeal-to-attend-colorado-springs-coin-seminar/article/1628080

 

Its amazing how much stuff has been published in the last DAY about their mishaps... I know their schedules absolutely imploded today with their new run bid starting. It was a nightmare down at the station both when I loaded and when I came back to unload... I tried to go get something from the vending machines and had folks giving me the evil eye because I was the only bus there and they wanted to know why I hadn’t let them on... sorry I’m done for the night and headed home... 

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Amazing story...I didn't recall it.   Thanks for posting.

What is really shocking, is the perpetrator only received six years for that.   They should have thrown the key away, when they locked him up....

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23 hours ago, ns8401 said:

Does it really matter if it was 18 or 20? That’s a rounding error at that point in a coach’s life. Who cares? Both were 102DL3’s... I see their siblings every single day at work... plus there are numerous pictures of both. No big secret.

Also let me be clear: while I was not defending the drivers actions or whatever you think I was doing, these sorts of things unfortunately happen. It could be as simple as reaching for something and looking away while traffic suddenly stops. That’s not incompetence... it’s a mistake and it’s a mistake that could send the person to jail. That’s why it’s a shame. It could very well be a life ruiner. One small mistake out here and you could be toast.

Unless you drive one of these beasts for a living like I do then you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Yes some folks make it 30 years in the business, most don’t and what gets them much of the time is stress and or hitting stuff. 

You want to furlough a driver that had a bus catch fire? Are you kidding? Do you have any real experience in buses or do you just spout random ideas about how you think it works? There isn’t anything you can do about an engine or tire fire except evacuate the bus... there’s nothing to discipline for unless you fail at that and by all accounts the driver did as trained. If you didn’t do a pretrip and missed something I suppose there could be some minor discipline but the driver isn’t a suspect in that one... the burned out MCI is...

 

Meanwhile in Texas #6400 stranded 50 people when it started leaking fuel:

http://www.cbs7.com/content/news/Broken-bus-strands-dozens-of-passengers-for-hours-486007531.html

 

In Missouri a Greyhound driver blew some windows out when he backed into a tree. The solution? Move the passengers away from the broken glass and keep on busin’...

https://www.ksdk.com/mobile/article/news/local/greyhound-bus-damaged-on-way-from-st-louis-to-kc/63-565815790

You chose the wrong person to pick on. Believe it or not, I am high-level management at a small motor carrier. We own the same model of coach and units that are even older than Greyhound 102DL3s.

The driver should not go to jail, he should be suspended without pay until the investigation is completed (the definition of "furlough" is "grant a leave of absence to" which is essentially the same thing), and if he is found to not be at fault (for example, if the truck suddenly braked), then he can be reinstated. If he is found to be at fault, he should be fired and his commercial driving privileges permanently revoked. If you disagree, just don't come to us looking for a job. Insurance rates are too high to hire any driver with an accident record.

There is a driver shortage. If someone wants to hire him, they can.

If there is an oil leak or a fire, don't blame MCI, blame Greyhound maintenance or driver neglect during the pre-trip. I know plenty of million-mile old MCIs that don't burst into flames. Don't you notice that all of these are 6400-series?

This is the same company that's cutting routes and, by your own post, screwed over a double amputee. The common denominator is not the 102DL3, it's Greyhound. I have cordial relations with many of their drivers and upper management, but the same cannot be said for middle management. And you can bet the D4505 and G4500 suffer from their share of issues, they're just not reported as much because there are more 102DL3s in the fleet.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree. No hard feelings. Some people like old buses. Some people like new buses. I will say #6498 is a great coach (I gave it 10/10 in my log). Certainly better than #86290 (which got 4/10).

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3 hours ago, Swadian said:

 

Quote

You chose the wrong person to pick on. Believe it or not, I am high-level management at a small motor carrier. We own the same model of coach and units that are even older than Greyhound 102DL3s.

Chest puffing aside this is really all in good fun and its a conversation... lets not get bent out of shape here but please read more carefully.. you still misread some things I wrote...

Quote

The driver should not go to jail, he should be suspended without pay until the investigation is completed (the definition of "furlough" is "grant a leave of absence to" which is essentially the same thing), and if he is found to not be at fault (for example, if the truck suddenly braked), then he can be reinstated. If he is found to be at fault, he should be fired and his commercial driving privileges permanently revoked. If you disagree, just don't come to us looking for a job. Insurance rates are too high to hire any driver with an accident record.

I never said that the driver in the rear end collision should go to jail. I said that incidents like that especially where a death is involved (fortunately not here) often end up with the at fault driver in jail. Negligence will always nail you in a rear end collision. Thats because if a truck suddenly stops and you rear end it then you were way too close. Rear end collisions are always the fault of the following vehicle and never the lead one. You should know that you should always allow 6 seconds minimum of following distance to have adequate reaction time. As for a job, even in Nevada if you are running mid-90's coaches then I'll pass but thanks. I'm mighty skeptical of anybody that does so. It screams "gee if they run such old stuff how well do they train their drivers? How much do they really care?"... My company retires it's intercity coaches at 600,000 miles or about 4 years old and the oldest charter coach is a pair of 2009's that have about 400,000 miles and are't long for the world. In fact we are all surprised they haven't been axed yet.  I don't really want to drive ancient junk if I can help it. That said I think I just figured out what the companies that prioritize new equipment and miles over cost savings do with their 4-9 year old buses... trade them in and then have someone like you pick them up for a song.

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There is a driver shortage. If someone wants to hire him, they can.

ATU might even try to save him... Heck Greyhound might suspend him and then let it slide. I don't really put anything past them.

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If there is an oil leak or a fire, don't blame MCI, blame Greyhound maintenance or driver neglect during the pre-trip. I know plenty of million-mile old MCIs that don't burst into flames. Don't you notice that all of these are 6400-series?

I did notice the 6400's coincidence (lets face it, everything from 6000-6999 that's still left is from the same vintage roughly) but it's just that... a coincidence and nothing more, I wouldn't read anything into the 6400's thing. That said I specifically said blame THE MCI (6477) that burned. I never said anything about the company. I did say that the driver could have neglected their pretrip and missed something ("I swear I looked but It must not have been dripping") but also that Greyhounds maintenance is atrocious and on an 18 year old bus that adds up big time, again you should know this and it shouldn't be a surprise. Ultimately the shoddy maintenance probably did it.  Plus it isn't a million mile bus... try 4 or 5 or 6 million miles. Those things are incredibly durable (a rebuild helps too). 

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This is the same company that's cutting routes and, by your own post, screwed over a double amputee. The common denominator is not the 102DL3, it's Greyhound. I have cordial relations with many of their drivers and upper management, but the same cannot be said for middle management. And you can bet the D4505 and G4500 suffer from their share of issues, they're just not reported as much because there are more 102DL3s in the fleet.

G4500's have always had serious problems, the D4505's aren't so bad, but yes their maintenance is the big issue. 

I saw a D4505 with a missing panel to the right of the radiator doors... just a big hole in the corner of the bus... how can that be allowed to drive around looking like that? I see coolant leaks and oil leaks and trans fluid leaks and buses with bad doors and bad lifts and signs that only half work and baggage bays creased in the middle. Every day brings a new and exciting defect. I had a Greyhound driver not long ago who was hanging out at the station waiting on a bus (at $37.00 an hour mind you) show me a picture of a bus he had pretripped that had a pile of hundreds of roaches in its electrical cabinet (another 102DL3 mind you). Since it was winter he said that they were trying to use the heat from the panel to keep warm but then the bus was shut off and they froze to death. He immediately rejected and downed that bus. It hadn't been serviced in quite a while. We went and looked at my bus just for fun (a D4505)... clean as a whistle. I was pretty relieved.

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Anyway, we can agree to disagree. No hard feelings. Some people like old buses. Some people like new buses. I will say #6498 is a great coach (I gave it 10/10 in my log). Certainly better than #86290 (which got 4/10).

What kind of log are you talking about? Are you sitting at the station logging buses in your spare time and rating them or something? That would be... odd... for a high level person at a coach company to be doing... 

I would be interested to know why you rated one a 10 and the other a 4 though...

 

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48 minutes ago, ns8401 said:

 

Chest-puffing? You're the one who started it with your "Unless you drive one of these beasts for a living like I do then you don’t have a clue what you are talking about."

"It's all good fun and in conversation", eh? Well, you're the one who's saying "I don't really want to drive ancient junk if I can help it. That said I think I just figured out what the companies that prioritize new equipment and miles over cost savings do with their 4-9 year old buses... trade them in and then have someone like you pick them up for a song."

Don't like old buses? No one's forcing you to drive them. Plenty of companies out here and elsewhere use older equipment. Even Amador has 102DL3s, 102D3s, and I believe even 102C3s. Dave Leach, Eugene Berardi, and Dan Holter are no less respected than Gordon Mackay. Automatically assuming that anything older than your company's standard is "junk" says more about you than anything else. I don't think Gordon Mackay, Chad Cushman, or Bob Erickson would endorse your statement even if their oldest coach is a 2009.

Your statement "It screams "gee if they run such old stuff how well do they train their drivers? How much do they really care?"" is nothing but flaming. Our drivers are as good as any in Nevada. You don't know what you're talking about since you don't have their MVRs and DQFs.

The 6400s are indeed different from the 6500s (they didn't originally have a wheelchair lift) but I agree there it isn't necessarily a correlation.

#6477 did not have 4 or 5 or 6 million miles on it, it had about 3 million. If it is "incredibly durable" as you say then that says more about the quality of the 102DL3 than you.

I don't sit at the station logging buses, I log every motorcoach and airliner I travel on and rate it on a scale of 1 to 10. There is even a website that lets you do this with airplanes; unfortunately not so with buses. I am not the only one who does this.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. You can blame #6477 even if you don't really know what happened and are just speculating. True safety managers never assume anything until an investigation is completed. I never tried to pick a fight with you, you tried to pick a fight with me; however, I have better things to do than to waste my time. Say what you want to say, we're done here.

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24 minutes ago, Swadian said:

Chest-puffing? You're the one who started it with your "Unless you drive one of these beasts for a living like I do then you don’t have a clue what you are talking about."

"It's all good fun and in conversation", eh? Well, you're the one who's saying "I don't really want to drive ancient junk if I can help it. That said I think I just figured out what the companies that prioritize new equipment and miles over cost savings do with their 4-9 year old buses... trade them in and then have someone like you pick them up for a song."

Don't like old buses? No one's forcing you to drive them. Plenty of companies out here and elsewhere use older equipment. Even Amador has 102DL3s, 102D3s, and I believe even 102C3s. Dave Leach, Eugene Berardi, and Dan Holter are no less respected than Gordon Mackay. Automatically assuming that anything older than your company's standard is "junk" says more about you than anything else. I don't think Gordon Mackay, Chad Cushman, or Bob Erickson would endorse your statement even if their oldest coach is a 2009.

Your statement "It screams "gee if they run such old stuff how well do they train their drivers? How much do they really care?"" is nothing but flaming. Our drivers are as good as any in Nevada. You don't know what you're talking about since you don't have their MVRs and DQFs.

The 6400s are indeed different from the 6500s (they didn't originally have a wheelchair lift) but I agree there it isn't necessarily a correlation.

#6477 did not have 4 or 5 or 6 million miles on it, it had about 3 million. If it is "incredibly durable" as you say then that says more about the quality of the 102DL3 than you.

I don't sit at the station logging buses, I log every motorcoach and airliner I travel on and rate it on a scale of 1 to 10. There is even a website that lets you do this with airplanes; unfortunately not so with buses. I am not the only one who does this.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. You can blame #6477 even if you don't really know what happened and are just speculating. True safety managers never assume anything until an investigation is completed. I never tried to pick a fight with you, you tried to pick a fight with me; however, I have better things to do than to waste my time. Say what you want to say, we're done here.

I apologize and let’s move on... truce?

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8 minutes ago, ns8401 said:

I apologize and let’s move on... truce?

No need to apologize. As Abe Lincoln said, "You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

It's just an online forum. No lives or insurance claims at risk. No hard feelings.

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14 minutes ago, Swadian said:

No need to apologize. As Abe Lincoln said, "You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

It's just an online forum. No lives or insurance claims at risk. No hard feelings.

Thanks... that’s quite true actually. 

To answer your original question I have a Google News feed set for a 24 hour pull using the search term “Greyhound Bus”, that’s where I get the articles. With that said there has been absolutely no follow up on what actually happened in either case that has shown up in the feed. About 90% of the stuff in it right now is actually all about what Greyhound should do to resist the CBP boarding it’s buses...

I only got the numbers because the helicopter shots caught the huge numbers on the roof. 

Just an aside but is Greyhound still in the habit of putting numbers up there on everything or is it just the older stuff? 

 

Edit:

After a little digging manually on Google, an updated story stated the Greyhound Driver was indeed at fault in the rear end crash, no specifics as to how. Couldn’t find anything further than “cause unknown” about the fire. 

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Yeah, all the Greyhounds still have the numbers on the roof.

As for the CBP issue, most of the articles are biased one way or another as they often are when politics are involved. However, they often miss the liability issue. We have all heard about attacks on Greyhound buses. If a Greyhound driver is attacked by an illegal alien on the highway, resulting in an accident, the other passengers in lawsuit-happy USA are going to sue Greyhound for not preventing the illegal alien from boarding. However, if the driver had tried to stop the illegal alien by himself, a fight would likely have ensued.

So of course Greyhound has no choice but to say, "OK, maybe the Border Patrol is unreasonable in some of these searches, but we're not going to stop them either."

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1 hour ago, Swadian said:

Yeah, all the Greyhounds still have the numbers on the roof.

As for the CBP issue, most of the articles are biased one way or another as they often are when politics are involved. However, they often miss the liability issue. We have all heard about attacks on Greyhound buses. If a Greyhound driver is attacked by an illegal alien on the highway, resulting in an accident, the other passengers in lawsuit-happy USA are going to sue Greyhound for not preventing the illegal alien from boarding. However, if the driver had tried to stop the illegal alien by himself, a fight would likely have ensued.

So of course Greyhound has no choice but to say, "OK, maybe the Border Patrol is unreasonable in some of these searches, but we're not going to stop them either."

That bias is why I’m not posting that kind of stuff here. The fires and wrecks and mishaps are much more interesting. 

 

I can say from my perspective I’m not gonna argue with anybody in law enforcement about it, you want On? Go right ahead (there was an article not long ago about an Adirondack Trailways or another company out that way’s driver telling passengers they had to be US citizens to ride the bus while CBP was checking for papers). I treat the situation no different then if I was stopped by a cop for speeding in my own vehicle. They are in charge, how i feel becomes irrelevant. Cue the “yes sir, no sir” responses to questions, my hands are tied. I haven’t had the CBP situation yet personally (they are regular visitors to Greyhound in Detroit and I’ve seen the dogs out and literally everyone’s bag searched in the terminal) but I have had DEA guys trying to intercept a passenger come looking around for people before. 

I can see your point about liability (aren’t attacks the reason the shields got put on their buses?) In any of the attacks was the perpetrator an illegal alien though? I know a couple of them involved foreigners but beyond that I don’t know much about the incidents myself.

A couple of airlines have now put their feet (landing gear?) down against their planes being used for transporting the children that were separate and detained so my question becomes how are the airlines having an easier time taking a stand one way or the other on the issue than the bus companies? I realize it isn’t a perfect comparison but I’ve also read much to do about people wanting to do business with companies they agree with politically (not that anyone should base a purchasing decision on politics). 

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15 hours ago, ns8401 said:

That bias is why I’m not posting that kind of stuff here. The fires and wrecks and mishaps are much more interesting. 

 

I can say from my perspective I’m not gonna argue with anybody in law enforcement about it, you want On? Go right ahead (there was an article not long ago about an Adirondack Trailways or another company out that way’s driver telling passengers they had to be US citizens to ride the bus while CBP was checking for papers). I treat the situation no different then if I was stopped by a cop for speeding in my own vehicle. They are in charge, how i feel becomes irrelevant. Cue the “yes sir, no sir” responses to questions, my hands are tied. I haven’t had the CBP situation yet personally (they are regular visitors to Greyhound in Detroit and I’ve seen the dogs out and literally everyone’s bag searched in the terminal) but I have had DEA guys trying to intercept a passenger come looking around for people before. 

I can see your point about liability (aren’t attacks the reason the shields got put on their buses?) In any of the attacks was the perpetrator an illegal alien though? I know a couple of them involved foreigners but beyond that I don’t know much about the incidents myself.

A couple of airlines have now put their feet (landing gear?) down against their planes being used for transporting the children that were separate and detained so my question becomes how are the airlines having an easier time taking a stand one way or the other on the issue than the bus companies? I realize it isn’t a perfect comparison but I’ve also read much to do about people wanting to do business with companies they agree with politically (not that anyone should base a purchasing decision on politics). 

Yes, 3 attacks on Greyhound in the past 12 months were done by illegal aliens:

  • Stabbing on #86278 in Oregon
  • Hijacking of #7268 in Illinois
  • Stabbing on #6536 in California

In fact, all of the recent attacks on Greyhound have apparently been done by illegal aliens. Therefore, if Greyhound "appeases" illegal aliens, the driver union could throw a fit, and it is perhaps possible that Greyhound or individual drivers discreetly "invited" the CBP on board so that it would not be "search or seizure without warrant".

The shield did not prevent the driver of #86278 from being stabbed in the neck, the hijacking involved a gun, and the victims on #6536 were 4 passengers.

The other point about liability is that bus insurance rates are at an all-time high and the insurance companies are looking for every excuse they can to raise rates every year. If there's even a single illegal alien on board, the insurance company could raise one's rates.

Every business acts in the best interest of its bottom line. It turns out Gordon has such a new fleet because some of the units are sponsored by MDOT. The $553,500 price tag (https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-9620-330257--,00.html) is 80% covered by FTA and 20% covered by MDOT; Gordon pays 0% and probably pays very attractive lease rates (about $5,000/month) which are generally much better than leasing from a for-profit leasing company. It is hard to refuse to such a deal. Greyhound also replaces its state pool coaches at a young age. Also, buses in Michigan or Canada corrode a lot more than those in the Nevada desert.

Union angst, passenger lawsuits, and increased insurance rates would not be beneficial to Greyhound's bottom line.

This is different from the airlines denying transport to alien children - denying transport reduces liability, whereas accepting transport increases liability.

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3 hours ago, Swadian said:

Yes, 3 attacks on Greyhound in the past 12 months were done by illegal aliens:

  • Stabbing on #86278 in Oregon
  • Hijacking of #7268 in Illinois
  • Stabbing on #6536 in California

In fact, all of the recent attacks on Greyhound have apparently been done by illegal aliens. Therefore, if Greyhound "appeases" illegal aliens, the driver union could throw a fit, and it is perhaps possible that Greyhound or individual drivers discreetly "invited" the CBP on board so that it would not be "search or seizure without warrant".

The shield did not prevent the driver of #86278 from being stabbed in the neck, the hijacking involved a gun, and the victims on #6536 were 4 passengers.

The other point about liability is that bus insurance rates are at an all-time high and the insurance companies are looking for every excuse they can to raise rates every year. If there's even a single illegal alien on board, the insurance company could raise one's rates.

Every business acts in the best interest of its bottom line. It turns out Gordon has such a new fleet because some of the units are sponsored by MDOT. The $553,500 price tag (https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-9620-330257--,00.html) is 80% covered by FTA and 20% covered by MDOT; Gordon pays 0% and probably pays very attractive lease rates (about $5,000/month) which are generally much better than leasing from a for-profit leasing company. It is hard to refuse to such a deal. Greyhound also replaces its state pool coaches at a young age. Also, buses in Michigan or Canada corrode a lot more than those in the Nevada desert.

Union angst, passenger lawsuits, and increased insurance rates would not be beneficial to Greyhound's bottom line.

This is different from the airlines denying transport to alien children - denying transport reduces liability, whereas accepting transport increases liability.

I wonder if it's possible to extend those shields any further or reinforce them in some way to make it harder to get to the driver? Anyone know if they are bulletproof or simply Plexiglas?

It seems like Greyhound (and other companies in the same business) are really hamstrung by this situation, kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't. The union would have an absolute fit if they appeased them I'm sure and I wouldn't put it past some of the drivers to look in CBP's direction to get them interested in coming over and having a chat. Even simple eye contact might be enough to do it, it would certainly be discreet. 

As for the coaches I'm trying to square the Greyhound Michigan coaches "Leased to and Operated by Greyhound Lines Inc. Dallas, TX" lettering with the Indian Trails version "Funded by State of Michigan, Owned and Operated by Indian Trails Inc. Owosso, MI". That certainly makes it sound like one is indeed a lease (Greyhound) and the other is more of a transit system style arrangement "here's some funding to buy you buses that you will own and maintain for this specified use" (Indian Trails). The state fleet is 3 14's (that's whats left of the ones in the linked article), 10 16's and 4 18's, so the replacement is about 4 years old or so, which I think is somewhat designed into the state program from what one of the former MDOT managers in charge of the program was saying when I saw him last. I was told the 4 D4505's that were just purged from the roster went back to MCI in Des Plaines, IL as trade-ins on the 4 new ones so I don't know how that factors into the funding. The charter buses are all simply lettered with owned and operated by, so no leases on that end of things, average age is probably about 5 or so there. I think you might know more about how all the FTA/State funding might work. There seems to be some difference in mechanisms between the two companies vis a vis the program... 

You are absolutely right about the corrosion issue and that probably factors into the decision not to go much beyond 600,000 before retirement. It has the side-benefit of keeping everything relatively gently used and maybe the repair costs are lower. Being in the desert though keeps everything darn nice cosmetically and mechanically for a lot longer on the reverse side of that coin. I do however see some pretty old stuff (a lot of Van Hools for whatever reason) running around here with some of the other companies that are based in the area.

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