Greyhound in the news

[ns8401]

Well we have an answer on why Greyhound balked at the Knoxville transit center… the city wants $400-600,000 a year to let them use it at night. 6pm-2am is when Greyhound needs it. Greyhound is in talks with somebody to use their facility for a stop location. The city has not decided whether to pursue legal action against Greyhound for its illegal use of the city bus stop. 
 

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/2022/11/30/greyhound-knoxville-tn-charge-downtown-terminal-use/69677804007/

https://www.wvlt.tv/2022/11/30/knoxville-greyhound-station-moves-third-time-this-year/

[Rapidbus]

2 hours ago, ns8401 said:

Well we have an answer on why Greyhound balked at the Knoxville transit center… the city wants $400-600,000 a year to let them use it at night. 6pm-2am is when Greyhound needs it. Greyhound is in talks with somebody to use their facility for a stop location. The city has not decided whether to pursue legal action against Greyhound for its illegal use of the city bus stop. 
 

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/2022/11/30/greyhound-knoxville-tn-charge-downtown-terminal-use/69677804007/

https://www.wvlt.tv/2022/11/30/knoxville-greyhound-station-moves-third-time-this-year/

I figured that the city is charging GH the full cost of the operation of the terminal when the station is closed. 

I'm guessing with the ridership/schedule declines GH experienced in the past 10 years, the company no longer see the justification to pay that much for its 6 trips a day

 

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, GH is a private company and you can't force it to a place where they clearly show that they don't want to pay, on the other hand, the current conditions for passengers are deplorable (both the stations and the service I would argue).

At the very least they are still willing to pay something, granted 42,000 is still very far from the 600,000 the city of Knoxville offered

[MCIBUS]

Do they accept the 'foreign' currency at par or does the driver or customer have to calculate the exchange rate? Not excepty US currency  is just nuts!!

[ns8401]

2 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

Do they accept the 'foreign' currency at par or does the driver or customer have to calculate the exchange rate? Not excepty US currency  is just nuts!!

I was always under the impression that they only accepted the currency that applies to the country where the bus runs. 

[MCIBUS]

1 hour ago, ns8401 said:

I was always under the impression that they only accepted the currency that applies to the country where the bus runs. 

If I understand it they not excepting US Dollars in the US? Unless I'm misunderstanding the link?

[ns8401]

10 minutes ago, MCIBUS said:

If I understand it they not excepting US Dollars in the US? Unless I'm misunderstanding the link?

That is correct… no cash in America but money accepted at the bus on every other country.

[ns8401]

11 hours ago, Rapidbus said:

I figured that the city is charging GH the full cost of the operation of the terminal when the station is closed. 

I'm guessing with the ridership/schedule declines GH experienced in the past 10 years, the company no longer see the justification to pay that much for its 6 trips a day

 

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, GH is a private company and you can't force it to a place where they clearly show that they don't want to pay, on the other hand, the current conditions for passengers are deplorable (both the stations and the service I would argue).

At the very least they are still willing to pay something, granted 42,000 is still very far from the 600,000 the city of Knoxville offered

It’s a heck of a gap between $42,000 which is a lowball figure let’s be honest and $600,000 which is maybe a little on the high side. Clearly Greyhound believes they can get something for nothing. 
 

Now the city is thinking of legal action against Greyhound for using their bus stop and interfering with their operations:

https://www.wate.com/news/knox-county-news/new-knoxville-greyhound-stop-disrupts-city-bus-operations-mayors-office-says/

[ns8401]

One positive here… they have eliminated transfers and driver changes in Knoxville in an effort to minimize issues:

https://www.wbir.com/article/news/local/knoxville-memorandum-of-greyhound-new-stop-issues-transit-center-costs/51-80e83486-cad8-4d32-9049-37cef7e4c41f

[Rapidbus]

7 hours ago, ns8401 said:

It’s a heck of a gap between $42,000 which is a lowball figure let’s be honest and $600,000 which is maybe a little on the high side. Clearly Greyhound believes they can get something for nothing. 
 

Now the city is thinking of legal action against Greyhound for using their bus stop and interfering with their operations:

https://www.wate.com/news/knox-county-news/new-knoxville-greyhound-stop-disrupts-city-bus-operations-mayors-office-says/

42,000 exactly the 3,500 per month they offered the barbershop. its starting to look like that is their budget for the new stop. Still I doubt they (or any operator) are ever going to pay the $50,000/month Knoxville is requesting

13 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

If I understand it they not excepting US Dollars in the US? Unless I'm misunderstanding the link?

In other countries drivers can accept cash and sell tickets. They do not allow that in US and Canada.

If they have ticket offices they continue to accept US currency 

[ns8401]

Greyhound has tossed New York Trailways out of the Albany terminal because “they are now competition”. Greyhound is the lease holder on the station and Trailways was a sub-lessee. Trailways has located temporarily on Green St. which is supposedly in the shadow of the terminal. 
 

https://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=20923917&gfv=1

[Rapidbus]

2 hours ago, ns8401 said:

Greyhound has tossed New York Trailways out of the Albany terminal because “they are now competition”. Greyhound is the lease holder on the station and Trailways was a sub-lessee. Trailways has located temporarily on Green St. which is supposedly in the shadow of the terminal. 
 

https://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=20923917&gfv=1

Really don't understand what they gain from doing that. This isn't the 1980s anymore.

We have this huge terminal that Greyhound is completely under utilizing now, and now you are kicking paying tenants out

 

Really seem petty to me. They are probably leaving that terminal soon anyways probably

[MCIBUS]

So they kick out a paying tent but they don't want to pay Knoxville for space at the Knoxville Terminal, what a bunch of Hypocrites.

[ns8401]

6 hours ago, Rapidbus said:

Really don't understand what they gain from doing that. This isn't the 1980s anymore.

We have this huge terminal that Greyhound is completely under utilizing now, and now you are kicking paying tenants out

 

Really seem petty to me. They are probably leaving that terminal soon anyways probably

The city is working on building a new one and Trailways would be a tenant so Greyhounds move was essentially pointless.

[ns8401]

Peter Pan apparently voluntarily went with Trailways to the new temporary stop in Albany since they interline together. 
https://www.busandmotorcoachnews.com/trailways-of-new-york-evicted-from-bus-terminal-by-greyhound/

[traildriver]

20 hours ago, Rapidbus said:

Really don't understand what they gain from doing that. This isn't the 1980s anymore.

We have this huge terminal that Greyhound is completely under utilizing now, and now you are kicking paying tenants out

 

Really seem petty to me. They are probably leaving that terminal soon anyways probably

Thanks for that link.  I haven't seen that new color scheme for the ADT buses, and it's on an X-3, I believe.   Haven't seen those on ADT before, either.

Too bad ADT couldn't have moved back into this.  I recall all the hoopla when it opened.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/358+Broadway,+Albany,+NY+12204/@42.6471681,-73.7502108,3a,75y,270.42h,89.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sE8xyXylPnSEehdz37qta1g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x89de0a20fc4401d3:0x2750a983aa6e5dec!8m2!3d42.6471615!4d-73.7504756

 

[ns8401]

26 minutes ago, traildriver said:

Thanks for that link.  I haven't seen that new color scheme for the ADT buses, and it's on an X-3, I believe.   Haven't seen those on ADT before, either.

Too bad ADT couldn't have moved back into this.  I recall all the hoopla when it opened.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/358+Broadway,+Albany,+NY+12204/@42.6471681,-73.7502108,3a,75y,270.42h,89.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sE8xyXylPnSEehdz37qta1g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x89de0a20fc4401d3:0x2750a983aa6e5dec!8m2!3d42.6471615!4d-73.7504756

 

Interesting, when about did that open and was it the Adirondack terminal before they partnered with Greyhound and moved into their station?

 

I think their scheme on the X3’s looks pretty sharp. The new X3’s are very nice buses. 

[traildriver]

8 hours ago, ns8401 said:

Interesting, when about did that open and was it the Adirondack terminal before they partnered with Greyhound and moved into their station?

 

I think their scheme on the X3’s looks pretty sharp. The new X3’s are very nice buses. 

I think it opened in around 1963 or '64.   The old Greyhound Terminal was just across the street from it on the left.  Both on Broadway.  It was used by Adirondack until they moved into the new Greyhound Terminal.   It featured a snack bar, a cafeteria, and even a cocktail lounge on the upper level.  At one time, ADT ran "Five Star Luxury Service" with a hostess aboard, serving snacks and beverages twice daily between there and NYC. 

It looks like a Prevost H3 would be a tight fit, height wise.  I doubt a DD Van Hool could use it...

 

*

 

TNY had issues with the XL-II's, hence they went to the J4500 and then settled on the H3's.   I always liked the X-3's, and glad they got some.   The new paint scheme is rather sharp, and probably simpler not having the gray color added to the mix of red and white.  The new scheme looks like it could be a return to having a standardized paint scheme for all Trailways member's, like they used to have in the old days, where only the fleet number or the "legal's" told who the actual owner was, although with the little bit of route operations left, it would be pretty meaningless...

[ns8401]

4 hours ago, traildriver said:

I think it opened in around 1963 or '64.   The old Greyhound Terminal was just across the street from it on the left.  Both on Broadway.  It was used by Adirondack until they moved into the new Greyhound Terminal.   It featured a snack bar, a cafeteria, and even a cocktail lounge on the upper level.  At one time, ADT ran "Five Star Luxury Service" with a hostess aboard, serving snacks and beverages twice daily between there and NYC. 

It looks like a Prevost H3 would be a tight fit, height wise.  I doubt a DD Van Hool could use it...

 

*

 

TNY had issues with the XL-II's, hence they went to the J4500 and then settled on the H3's.   I always liked the X-3's, and glad they got some.   The new paint scheme is rather sharp, and probably simpler not having the gray color added to the mix of red and white.  The new scheme looks like it could be a return to having a standardized paint scheme for all Trailways member's, like they used to have in the old days, where only the fleet number or the "legal's" told who the actual owner was, although with the little bit of route operations left, it would be pretty meaningless...

Interesting… it looks like it was a pretty cool place at one time. The lettering on the front above the doors looks pretty classy. I have the feeling we may see a reconstituted Trailways like entity before long…

Greyhound will be terminated its pool agreement with Capital/Colonial Trailways (Mississippi/Alabama) at the end of December. This one is only 3 years old or so. Still… the agreements and such are dropping like flies now. January 23rd is the date for the new ticket system to go live and TRIPS to go away. There will be some carriers who refuse to switch to the new system and be “FLIXified”. They will begin to make agreements with each other and can cover 70% of the country at least. I think they could give it a go against Greyhound/FLIX simply by actually showing up and running relatively well compared to them. 

[Megabus Rider]

18 minutes ago, ns8401 said:

 

Greyhound will be terminated its pool agreement with Capital/Colonial Trailways (Mississippi/Alabama) at the end of December. This one is only 3 years old or so. Still… the agreements and such are dropping like flies now. January 23rd is the date for the new ticket system to go live and TRIPS to go away. There will be some carriers who refuse to switch to the new system and be “FLIXified”. They will begin to make agreements with each other and can cover 70% of the country at least. I think they could give it a go against Greyhound/FLIX simply by actually showing up and running relatively well compared to them. 

I am guessing all Trailways Members doing Intercity Bus Service will go on the Megabus booking platform. All other independent companies may join Megabus or Ourbus. Sad to say with Flixbus buying over Greyhound, alliances are starting to be formed now.

5 hours ago, traildriver said:

 

TNY had issues with the XL-II's, hence they went to the J4500 and then settled on the H3's.   I always liked the X-3's, and glad they got some.   The new paint scheme is rather sharp, and probably simpler not having the gray color added to the mix of red and white.  The new scheme looks like it could be a return to having a standardized paint scheme for all Trailways member's, like they used to have in the old days, where only the fleet number or the "legal's" told who the actual owner was, although with the little bit of route operations left, it would be pretty meaningless...

I believe the new design is in conjunction with the 'investment' into the Trailways booking platform when Greyhound dumped TNY.

On 12/2/2022 at 5:35 PM, ns8401 said:

Peter Pan apparently voluntarily went with Trailways to the new temporary stop in Albany since they interline together. 
https://www.busandmotorcoachnews.com/trailways-of-new-york-evicted-from-bus-terminal-by-greyhound/

Peter Pan had no choice or they too would have been evicted, especially Peter Pan has nothing to do with Greyhound.

I believe Greyhound is making room for Flixbus to use the TNY and Peter Pan Gates.

[traildriver]

12 hours ago, ns8401 said:

Interesting… it looks like it was a pretty cool place at one time. The lettering on the front above the doors looks pretty classy. I have the feeling we may see a reconstituted Trailways like entity before long…

Greyhound will be terminated its pool agreement with Capital/Colonial Trailways (Mississippi/Alabama) at the end of December. This one is only 3 years old or so. Still… the agreements and such are dropping like flies now. January 23rd is the date for the new ticket system to go live and TRIPS to go away. There will be some carriers who refuse to switch to the new system and be “FLIXified”. They will begin to make agreements with each other and can cover 70% of the country at least. I think they could give it a go against Greyhound/FLIX simply by actually showing up and running relatively well compared to them. 

Only 3 years?   I had thought that Capital/Colonial was one of the first independent ones to enter the revenue/schedule pool arrangement with Greyhound, perhaps as far back as Greyhound absorbing Continental Trailways.  Those Trailways carrier's were very isolated from the rest of the remaining Trailways carrier's.

 

I would love to see the Trailways system come back to relevance as a continent wide transportation service, as it once was, but I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen...

[ns8401]

7 hours ago, traildriver said:

Only 3 years?   I had thought that Capital/Colonial was one of the first independent ones to enter the revenue/schedule pool arrangement with Greyhound, perhaps as far back as Greyhound absorbing Continental Trailways.  Those Trailways carrier's were very isolated from the rest of the remaining Trailways carrier's.

 

I would love to see the Trailways system come back to relevance as a continent wide transportation service, as it once was, but I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen...

It may be that it was terminated and brought back in 2019. The current arrangement is a bus each way. The operations person for Capital/Colonial that mentioned it said he has a couple more charter drivers as a result so it may be that their regular line service died before then and this was some sort of revival. I think it was recent enough that I either wrote it up in the schedule thread or read about its creation not long before that in a bulletin. 

[Rapidbus]

20 hours ago, Megabus Rider said:

I am guessing all Trailways Members doing Intercity Bus Service will go on the Megabus booking platform. All other independent companies may join Megabus or Ourbus. Sad to say with Flixbus buying over Greyhound, alliances are starting to be formed now.

I believe the new design is in conjunction with the 'investment' into the Trailways booking platform when Greyhound dumped TNY.

Peter Pan had no choice or they too would have been evicted, especially Peter Pan has nothing to do with Greyhound.

I believe Greyhound is making room for Flixbus to use the TNY and Peter Pan Gates.

I don’t see how going to Megabus/OurBus system is any better.

I would argue it’s even worse. Megabus actively discourages transfers and OurBus I don’t even believe have that capability. Besides either way none of these website deal with the complexity of the GH system 

Beside what is really lost is the network effect. Megabus and OurBus barely have a network. Megabus has retrenched to only Texas and East Coast and OurBus is still stuck in the East Coast, with occasional one or two departures a year elsewhere and their schedules and departure days are a huge mess. 

Regarding Albany, I’m not even sure Flixbus serves Albany, so kicking TNY out was really just petty and pointless

[traildriver]

Unless the City of Albany does build a municipal terminal, more than likely what is left of Greyhound and/or Flix will probably just load on the street somewhere, anyway.

[Megabus Rider]

3 hours ago, Rapidbus said:

I don’t see how going to Megabus/OurBus system is any better.

I would argue it’s even worse. Megabus actively discourages transfers and OurBus I don’t even believe have that capability. Besides either way none of these website deal with the complexity of the GH system 

Beside what is really lost is the network effect. Megabus and OurBus barely have a network. Megabus has retrenched to only Texas and East Coast and OurBus is still stuck in the East Coast, with occasional one or two departures a year elsewhere and their schedules and departure days are a huge mess. 

Regarding Albany, I’m not even sure Flixbus serves Albany, so kicking TNY out was really just petty and pointless

I don't think 'better' exists right now it's more where can you get the dough to keep service going right now.

True about Megabus and as for Ourbus they are slowly getting into transfers using 2 contractors on a single ticket (example Toronto - NYC, Toronto - Boston and Niagara Falls, NY - Boston to my knowledge) Perhaps the GH system is becoming outdated because of low cost airliners like Frontier, Spirit, Southwest and jetBlue. In a 2019 report by Chaddick Institute: https://las.depaul.edu/centers-and-institutes/chaddick-institute-for-metropolitan-development/research-and-publications/Documents/2019 Intercity Bus Outlook 2.1.pdf stated 'Scheduled bus operators are increasingly emphasizing service linking metropolitan regions rather than just city centers.  A related trend is added service to/from airports and train stations, with the goal of providing passengers greater connecting opportunities' Which further shows the decline in the GH system and more focus is needed on regions and not city centres. This is what Megabus, Ourbus and Flixbus are focusing on. You basically want the GH system to continue but its a money losing system with today's travelling public. But hey you seem to be the expert on this compared to the authors of this report.

[ns8401]

8 hours ago, Megabus Rider said:

I don't think 'better' exists right now it's more where can you get the dough to keep service going right now.

True about Megabus and as for Ourbus they are slowly getting into transfers using 2 contractors on a single ticket (example Toronto - NYC, Toronto - Boston and Niagara Falls, NY - Boston to my knowledge) Perhaps the GH system is becoming outdated because of low cost airliners like Frontier, Spirit, Southwest and jetBlue. In a 2019 report by Chaddick Institute: https://las.depaul.edu/centers-and-institutes/chaddick-institute-for-metropolitan-development/research-and-publications/Documents/2019 Intercity Bus Outlook 2.1.pdf stated 'Scheduled bus operators are increasingly emphasizing service linking metropolitan regions rather than just city centers.  A related trend is added service to/from airports and train stations, with the goal of providing passengers greater connecting opportunities' Which further shows the decline in the GH system and more focus is needed on regions and not city centres. This is what Megabus, Ourbus and Flixbus are focusing on. You basically want the GH system to continue but its a money losing system with today's travelling public. But hey you seem to be the expert on this compared to the authors of this report.

Would you like to know what’s actually going to happen based on what I know to be going on behind the scenes? There will probably be some aligning with these folks on a limited basis I will concede based on what Adirondack did. But most of the independents will just interline with each other and exclude Greyhound like Peter Pan and Adirondack are already doing. The other carriers are talking and planning similar things at the moment. They focus on rural service largely because they have state contracts for service. So that report is cute but a lot of that doesn’t apply if you’re doing multiple 18 stop milk runs under contract with states. The Greyhound model is the only way to do that. Express or limited stop runs are not an option as it violates the 5311(f) funding for those routes. The whole idea is to keep an unprofitable route operating as a public service. So you need the stops every 25 minutes. 
 

I also don’t think the other carriers are interested in changing their business model to a competitor of a company they are soon going to reject. My hope is they all settle on one ticketing system so that nobody knows the difference as far as getting on one carrier and finishing on another and so I don’t have to carry 4 scanners with me with different ticket programs on them. If they can get Adirondack and Peter Pan on board and all be on the same system they will have 70+% of the country covered and can fix the things Greyhound messes up… terrible buses, rude drivers, extremely late schedules on a routine basis or schedules that just don’t run at all. The other carriers already generally don’t have that problem. That alone will build ridership. The poor condition of Greyhound as a company is wholly ignored by those kinds of reports. Unfortunately for everyone that is a major major part of the story.