Southeast LRT

[MatthewB]

40 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

No. Minimum peak service is 5 minutes. Level 1 is single car trains.

Each "level" is one more 2 car train, so level 2 is 12 single car trains and 1- 2 car train. How the hell do you even schedule that so that the 2 car train is positioned for different peak points in each peak period?

Level 8 hence, allows 7- 2 car trains, which out of 13 trains, meaning every second train is 2 cars.

Personally, I do not think that is adequate. A 2 car BBD Valley line train is only equivalent to a 3 car U2 train. If it wasn't for the pandemic, I think definately all trains would need to be 2 car trains from the start. Although technically they could do all trains as 2 cars, that would mean every single car would need to be available every peak. Ask Ottawa how that is going.

The joys of a P3. Granted, if ETS/ who ever drew up the specs determined that "Level 8" wouldn't be reached for 22 years, my question is: What where they smoking? The shear number of buses, coming out of Mill Woods, plus adding 1000 or so park and ride stalls at Davies, and yet ETS has underestimated ridership of the Valley Line LRT.

It's either incompetence, or intentional for whatever reason.

 

Sorry, that was just a joke that didn't land haha. But I really appreciate that in-depth explanation, it's great to know what level one actually entails. What really blows my mind is that when the Valley Line got extended to West Edmonton Mall, the Southeast stretch *still* wouldn't even be at level 8 according to the original plan.

[T6H-5307N]

8 minutes ago, MatthewB said:

Sorry, that was just a joke that didn't land haha. But I really appreciate that in-depth explanation, it's great to know what level one actually entails. What really blows my mind is that when the Valley Line got extended to West Edmonton Mall, the Southeast stretch *still* wouldn't even be at level 8 according to the original plan.

Well I thought it was funny, even if some other drunkard Parsons didn't 

But in all seriousness yes, years back when it was decided this was going to be a P3 my first thoughts were Vancouver and the Canada Line -- at/over capacity on day 1. While the upfront reduced build costs of a P3 always look appealing, in reality unless it is spec-ed perfectly there will always be corners cut somewhere. I'll give someone points for realizing this before the opening, but unfortunately it was always a when rather than an if regarding this discussion!

[M. Parsons]

39 minutes ago, T6H-5307N said:

Well I thought it was funny, even if some other drunkard Parsons didn't 

I'm at my finest after the equivalent of a 12 pack.

39 minutes ago, T6H-5307N said:

But in all seriousness yes, years back when it was decided this was going to be a P3 my first thoughts were Vancouver and the Canada Line -- at/over capacity on day 1. While the upfront reduced build costs of a P3 always look appealing, in reality unless it is spec-ed perfectly there will always be corners cut somewhere.

One thing to keep in mind here in terms of specing is that Edmonton, at this point in time, is limited in train length to the shortest block spacing Downtown, which is probably 99 St to 100 St. Although I feel more cars should have been ordered initially. This could be why they seem to be ordering so many cars themselves ( City of Edmonton) for the WVL LRT. Buying the cars themselves, rather than relying on TransEd to purchase a few more Flexity's. 

39 minutes ago, T6H-5307N said:

 

 

1 hour ago, MatthewB said:

What really blows my mind is that when the Valley Line got extended to West Edmonton Mall, the Southeast stretch *still* wouldn't even be at level 8 according to the original plan.

You can see a difference in usage of the NE LRT vs SLRT on the Capital Line, with the SLRT win busier than the NE LRT. This will end being the case with the VLSE LRT vs VLW LRT, and I suspect that we will see the VLSE being busier than the West, although that is purely ancedotal, off the top of my head, comparing buses from Mill Woods to Downtown and Downtown to WEM. Therefore, it doesn't really matter that the VLSE LRT will be connected with the VLW LRT in determining service levels. It willl be the busiest section that will determines that. Certainly, there will be riders from the VLSE through to the VLW, but not enough I suspect to influence a service levels. In a lot of cases, I suspect taking a crosstown bus route to WEM from SE Edmonton will be quicker than riding LRT through Downtown. 

 

[Blake M]

6 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

Personally, I do not think that is adequate. A 2 car BBD Valley line train is only equivalent to a 3 car U2 train. If it wasn't for the pandemic, I think definately all trains would need to be 2 car trains from the start. Although technically they could do all trains as 2 cars, that would mean every single car would need to be available every peak. Ask Ottawa how that is going.

The joys of a P3. Granted, if ETS/ who ever drew up the specs determined that "Level 8" wouldn't be reached for 22 years, my question is: What where they smoking?

 

*Cough* Canada Line *cough*

[armorand]

Curious... so if riderships gonna suffer, why not just lower transit fares across the board, filler up & count on the ETS bus fleets to make up for the lost revenue with the additional passengers coming on on the feeder lines & mode transfers? That way, it encourages everyone to use the trains & the stations, and also fills up the buses? 

[T6H-5307N]

5 hours ago, armorand said:

Curious... so if riderships gonna suffer, why not just lower transit fares across the board, filler up & count on the ETS bus fleets to make up for the lost revenue with the additional passengers coming on on the feeder lines & mode transfers? That way, it encourages everyone to use the trains & the stations, and also fills up the buses? 

I like that idea, however the thinking is pandemic equals spreading people out rather than generating more ridership and revenue. With transit usage currently hovering around 50% of normal ridership (similar to other parts of the country with the pandemic), the last thing they want to do is scare away more people by having overcrowded, unsafe trains. While it would be nice if these riders would turn to the bus network instead, in reality that situation would most likely turn them off of taking transit entirely.

Because Edmonton is overwhelmingly a "driving" city (statistically around 80% of the population does not use transit on a regular basis), cost overages are often portrayed negatively in the local media and can therefore be a tough sell to the general public. It certainly doesn't help that LRT hasn't had a great *track* record as of late with this delayed line and all of the issues with the Metro Line signalling system. The volatile oil economy is also an issue. The same anti transit crowd is quick to point out that ridership has plateaued since 2014, forgetting that that is also a reflection of an overall recession-induced lowering of general traffic volume (there are also less cars on the road when less people are going to work).

Needless to say, opening day will be very interesting. Hopefully there is room to make service adjustments on the fly if everything does not go as planned.

[M. Parsons]

53 minutes ago, armorand said:

Curious... so if riderships gonna suffer, why not just lower transit fares across the board, filler up & count on the ETS bus fleets to make up for the lost revenue with the additional passengers coming on on the feeder lines & mode transfers? That way, it encourages everyone to use the trains & the stations, and also fills up the buses? 

The reason why Transit doesn't lower fares is because they don't live in a theoretical, fantasy world.

To lower fares, they would need to approach council with a plan that justifies why reducing fares will increase revenue. Ultimately, they're going to need to ask Council, and taxpayers by extension, for millions in extra funding to cover any funding short fall. 

Indeed, ETS is doing the opposite. They are going to council for cash fare increases to $3.75 and then $4.00 over the next few years. However, it sounds like the intention is a $3.00 smart card fare with fare capping.

In addition to Mr 5307N's comments, for all LRT lines and a lot of bus routes, ridership returning will have a lot of influence from post secondary returning.  

4 hours ago, Blake M said:

*Cough* Canada Line *cough*

At least the Canada Line has some expansion capacity baked into it at stations. I don't think that has been planned for at any Valley Line station, so if they ever decided they wanted to close a Downtown street or two to expand stops, they'd be handicapped by Davies Station.

[MatthewB]

The following was approved without debate by the Executive Committee:

1. That Administration prepare an unfunded service package for consideration by Council during the 2021 Spring Supplemental Operating Budget Adjustment deliberations, to increase service level operations for the Valley Line Southeast to Service Level 8.

2. That Attachment 2 of the April 12, 2021, City Operations report CR_6778, remain private pursuant to section 16 (disclosure harmful to business interest of a third party) of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.

Here's the full report

[Nick B]

Decided to stop by and check out Davies station and the new MWTC this afternoon. Everything looks awesome in person. I like the cool walkway from the bus terminal to the soon-to-be LRT station at Mill Woods too.

[MatthewB]

I posted a number of pictures of Bonnie Doon and Avonmore Stops on another forum. Hopefully the crosspost is allowed.

[MatthewB]

[awstott]

https://globalnews.ca/news/8043461/edmonton-valley-line-lrt-southeast-strathearn-train-testing

[M. Parsons]

On 3/19/2021 at 1:06 AM, M. Parsons said:

While this is for the West LRT, it is certainly relevant for the SELRT as the LRV's will be used end to end on Valley Line. 8 responses to the RFQ, 3 invited to respond, and Bombardier/ Alstom is not among the shortlisted.

CAF
Rotem
Siemens

Hyundai Rotem has been selected as the LRV vendor for the WVL LRT.

[awstott]

Rail milling machine on Valley Line SE today.

https://trainpics.ca/picture.php?/2963 

[Nick B]

A couple shots of 102 Street station from this afternoon.

[T6H-5307N]

10 minutes ago, Nick B said:

A couple shots of 102 Street station from this afternoon.

Very nice. The markings in the bike lanes were painted on less than a week ago... almost left tire tracks in the green boxes hehehe.

[M. Parsons]

So, an update is in order. VLSE LRT opening delayed due to cracking at 3 piers on the elevated section. Root cause not determined yet, but the hope is they can perform a fix over replacement. No set opening date.

Unfortunately for TransEd, this time they cannot blame their usual scapegoat, the piece of concrete in the river. Of course, this is just the latest in a long line of concrete issues. 

The 510x is replaced by the 73 on September 4 following a much closer alignment, stopping at most LRT stops except Strathern and Quarter's, although there is a near by stop Strathern. The 511 will provide Owl service with am expanded number of bus stops over the 73. The 73 numbering falls in line with other LRT contingency service. 

[J. Ho]

 i hear the Edmonton Transit order 800 New LRT ` s to replace Old U2 what kind ????

[M. Parsons]

59 minutes ago, J. Ho said:

 i hear the Edmonton Transit order 800 New LRT ` s to replace Old U2 what kind ????

None ordered. And not 800.

[J. Ho]

i meant 80 im so sorry

[M. Parsons]

Still wrong... when ETS only has 37 U2's.
This isn't even the right thread for this question.

[J. Ho]

2 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

Still wrong... when ETS only has 37 U2's.
This isn't even the right thread for this question.

ok

i wish the edmonton will get a s200 c trains

[PrimeTio]

He’s a troll account, can we have admins ban him please?

[2102]

First time! 

[captaintrolley]

16 minutes ago, 2102 said:

First time! 

 

Where was this exactly? Doesn't look like there are tracks ahead of the train.