ABQ RIDE Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 With Gillig now introducing CNG, I wonder, could a Gillig artic also be imminent? There are indeed some possible customers that may be interested. One such customer would be Minneapolis-St. Paul Metro Transit, who buys from Gillig almost exclusively, except for artics where they currently buy from New Flyer. Other such customers could perhaps include LYNX of Orlando (who mostly buys from Gillig but had to purchase from NABI for artics), Florida, RTC Ride in Reno, Nevada (who also mostly buys from Gillig but recently ordered some New Flyer DE60LFRs), and perhaps Gillig could try to win an order from KCM if they were to offer artics, possibly to replace KCM's aging New Flyer D60s. Does anyone have an opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGH REG AREA TRANS AGENCY Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 me and and buddy tossed the idea around between each other, made a paperbus too for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiExpress Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 How much of a market really is there for a Gillig artic? The agencies you list don't purchase artics in very large quantities or purchase them sporadically. Even KCM hasn't purchased artics in large quantities since their large order a few years ago (only about 35-50 each year) and quite frankly I don't think there's enough demand to justify a Gillig artic. Also, I don't know where the thought of CNG leading to an artic comes from. It's a totally different perspective and undertaking. Chances are the supplier for the CNG system on Gillig buses is heavily involved with the engineering and installing rather than Gillig. With an artic, Gillig would probably occur some very high engineering expenses that probably wouldn't be justified due to their market niche (small transit agencies). And then there's the fact that Gillig's factory apparently cannot accommodate 60' buses, according to several MBS members who went on a plant tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGH REG AREA TRANS AGENCY Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Gillig has a large customer base, PAT just ordered some artics for next year, and i know if Gillig made Artics, PAT would of ordered them in a heartbeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris H Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Gillig has a large customer base, PAT just ordered some artics for next year, and i know if Gillig made Artics, PAT would of ordered them in a heartbeat Which company did PAT order their artics from? Here in St. Louis, Gillig dominates the fleet now with both Phantom and LF models. Metro seems to like the Gilligs for its ease of service and parts availability, and funding issues last year led them to cancel a 30 bus order from them. However, with Metro's implementation of a BRT on some of its busiest routes; an artic would be needed. Since Gillig doesn't build an artic, Metro has been looking to NABI and New Flyer for artics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCT-3122-D800-10240 Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Gillig has a large customer base, PAT just ordered some artics for next year, and i know if Gillig made Artics, PAT would of ordered them in a heartbeat And back in the 1980's when GM had a large customer base, what happened with Articulated buses? There was not enough of a demand back then either. GM had built a demo RTS (I think it was two? I don't recall off hand right now), but I believe they scrapped the Articulated bus idea as it didn't seem as there was enough demand for them IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiExpress Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Which company did PAT order their artics from?Here in St. Louis, Gillig dominates the fleet now with both Phantom and LF models. Metro seems to like the Gilligs for its ease of service and parts availability, and funding issues last year led them to cancel a 30 bus order from them. However, with Metro's implementation of a BRT on some of its busiest routes; an artic would be needed. Since Gillig doesn't build an artic, Metro has been looking to NABI and New Flyer for artics. PAT went with New Flyer for the artics, apparently New Flyer went after PAT aggressive as it was one of the last major east coast agencies not to have New Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQ RIDE Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Since Gillig doesn't build an artic, Metro has been looking to NABI and New Flyer for artics. What about Nova? Of course they wouldn't be an option if they are specifying hybrids, as Nova currently doesn't offer a hybrid version of the LFS Artic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiExpress Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 What about Nova? Of course they wouldn't be an option if they are specifying hybrids, as Nova currently doesn't offer a hybrid version of the LFS Artic. Sorry for dragging this off topic, but not according to Nova Bus and CT Transit themselves: http://www.novabus.com/press/news-list/con...-its-fleet.html CT Transit, whose divisions serve 7 metropolitan areas throughout the state of Connecticut, including Hartford, New Haven and Stamford, selected a mix of clean-diesel and hybrid drives for its articulated vehicles, with deliveries starting in late 2010. I've got the CT Transit document somewhere, I'll have to dig it up. I believe the order was for 25 diesel LFS artics and 6 hybrid LFS artics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQ RIDE Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Sorry for dragging this off topic, but not according to Nova Bus and CT Transit themselves:http://www.novabus.com/press/news-list/con...-its-fleet.html I've got the CT Transit document somewhere, I'll have to dig it up. I believe the order was for 25 diesel LFS artics and 6 hybrid LFS artics. Interestingly, I wonder what engine will Nova use for their LFS artics. Nova's 40-foot hybrids use the Cummins ISB engine, however, as far as I know, Cummins doesn't offer a 330 hp ISB engine for artics. Possibilities could be the ISL 330 hp, or maybe the ISC 330 hp (a little smaller than the ISL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Parsons Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Interestingly, I wonder what engine will Nova use for their LFS artics. Nova's 40-foot hybrids use the Cummins ISB engine, however, as far as I know, Cummins doesn't offer a 330 hp ISB engine for artics. Possibilities could be the ISL 330 hp, or maybe the ISC 330 hp (a little smaller than the ISL). I don't think the ISC is avalible in buses anymore, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQ RIDE Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 I don't think the ISC is avalible in buses anymore, is it? My reply: http://www.cptdb.ca/index.php?showtopic=12...mp;#entry430602 Let's keep further discussion on the Nova LFS Hybrid Artic engine in the other thread, and continue discussion on a possible Gillig artic in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGH REG AREA TRANS AGENCY Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 What about Nova? Of course they wouldn't be an option if they are specifying hybrids, as Nova currently doesn't offer a hybrid version of the LFS Artic. Nova would not work to good because our hills are killer for low HP buses. We need atleast 410-445 HP for the larger buses. Which company did PAT order their artics from?Here in St. Louis, Gillig dominates the fleet now with both Phantom and LF models. Metro seems to like the Gilligs for its ease of service and parts availability, and funding issues last year led them to cancel a 30 bus order from them. However, with Metro's implementation of a BRT on some of its busiest routes; an artic would be needed. Since Gillig doesn't build an artic, Metro has been looking to NABI and New Flyer for artics. New Flyers, Past orders from newest to oldest for artics is Neoplan, Neoplan, Ikarus and M.A.N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris H Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 What about Nova? Of course they wouldn't be an option if they are specifying hybrids, as Nova currently doesn't offer a hybrid version of the LFS Artic. I sent an email to Metro last year, and those two manufacturers were the ones they mentioned. I did tell them about the Nova LFS artic, so hopefully, they would consider them when they start the bidding for artics to use in their BRT service. October 2008 Metro tested the NABI 60BRT hybrid for 3 weeks all around the St. Louis area, while getting feedback from riders. Metro would like Gillig to build an artic as it would compliment their fleet of 400 Gillig buses. Metro has always wanted to keep parts and maintenance simplified, which is why Metro retired 1982 GM New Looks, 1989-91 Flxible Metro B, 1993 Orion II (Forest Park shuttle bug) between 2000-03, and 1997 Neoplan AN440 CNGs in March 2009 in favor of their 1995-2004 Gillig Phantom and 2008 Gillig LF. Here is St. Louis Metro's long range plan: http://www.movingtransitforward.org/ Currently they are restoring service that was cut last year through several phases. BRT is part of their long range plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVTArider Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 One such customer would be Minneapolis-St. Paul Metro Transit, who buys from Gillig almost exclusively, except for artics where they currently buy from New Flyer. Not necessarily. If New Flyer hadn't bid using lower quality material than the RFP stipulated, and also offered a little more training and warranty coverage we would probably be receiving our second batch of D40LFRs and DE40LFRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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