Silly Tilley

Fresno Area Express (FAX)

25 posts in this topic

FAX has a RFP out requesting bids on a multi-year contract for 10 30' CNG buses, 65 40' CNG buses, and 9 60' CNG buses.

http://vendors.planetbids.com/fresno/ebidr...%2F30%2F40%2F60 - Bid Results

http://vendors.planetbids.com/fresno/biddt...p;Status=Closed - Amendments to RFP and listings of various questions the bidders had

A few interesting points from those links:

-New Flyer appears willing to build a 60' CNG bus by 2012.

-"BusWest" as listed in the bid results appears to be Foton Bus, as a quick search of the site listed them as a Foton sales dealer

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Interesting point here as FAX works with New Flyer with the proposed XC60 model that New Flyer could possibly launch it especially to help meet FAX's requirement.

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I've seen the bid results on another site and I think Foton has a chance with the 30 foot market.

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Interesting point here as FAX works with New Flyer with the proposed XC60 model that New Flyer could possibly launch it especially to help meet FAX's requirement.

I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that New Flyer would be somehow planning to build a CNG artic just because FAX put out a tender?

I can't imagine that New Flyer would develop a CNG artic just for a potential 9 bus order.

It's probably more so that New Flyer has been planning a CNG artic for some time with the Xcelsior platform, and the timelines for this tender fit into their plans.

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I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that New Flyer would be somehow planning to build a CNG artic just because FAX put out a tender?

Yeah, sorry about that, I was trying to mean about that if New Flyer wants to see the possibility of starting a CNG market for any potential order in California where there are potential possibility for it besides looking at FAX's interest in it.

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Gillig has won the contract for 30 and 40 foot CNG buses for Fresno Area Express. New Flyer won the bid for 60 foot CNG buses.

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Gillig has won the contract for 30 and 40 foot CNG buses for Fresno Area Express. New Flyer won the bid for 60 foot CNG buses.

Interesting contract award...but I don't get it. Why buy CNG buses made in three sizes that neither company has ever done? It would just make sense to purchase 40 foot CNG New Flyers and have them modify production to build a 30 & 60 footer instead of going with Gillig who has never built a CNG bus before...This sounds like either a good idea to launch Gillig as a serious CNG builder of this could "Blow up" in Fax's faces.

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Interesting contract award...but I don't get it. Why buy CNG buses made in three sizes that neither company has ever done? It would just make sense to purchase 40 foot CNG New Flyers and have them modify production to build a 30 & 60 footer instead of going with Gillig who has never built a CNG bus before...

Lowest bid (probably) wins the day.

And, I don't think you can just "modify production" to build a 30' and especially a 60'.

As for Gillig having never built a CNG bus before, New Flyer has never built a 60' CNG before, so based upon that logic, FAX should have gone with NABI.

In fact, at least Gillig has indeed built a 40' CNG bus. New Flyer I don't believe has unveiled a 60' CNG bus yet.

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Where did say about this?

What in the hell are your trying to say?

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Where did say about this?
Since you did not quote who you were responding to, I must ask, what and who are you referring to!?
Lowest bid (probably) wins the day.

And, I don't think you can just "modify production" to build a 30' and especially a 60'.

As for Gillig having never built a CNG bus before, New Flyer has never built a 60' CNG before, so based upon that logic, FAX should have gone with NABI.

In fact, at least Gillig has indeed built a 40' CNG bus. New Flyer I don't believe has unveiled a 60' CNG bus yet.

From what I recall, that D60 demo that Vancouver looked at back in 1989-90, was originally built as a CNG demo. This is the same demo that ran for Community Transit in Washtington State for some time.

However I am starting to reakize that maybe that D60 demo was a methanol or ethonol demo. I am not quite sure at this moment.

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From what I recall, that D60 demo that Vancouver looked at back in 1989-90, was originally built as a CNG demo. This is the same demo that ran for Community Transit in Washtington State for some time.

However I am starting to reakize that maybe that D60 demo was a methanol or ethonol demo. I am not quite sure at this moment.

That D60 was methanol from what I recall.

It would have been significantly different than a C60LFR anyways, in particular, there would have been tanks on the roof, not to mention 20 years between them!

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Since you did not quote who you were responding to, I must ask, what and who are you referring to!?

I meant about this news of that bus order. Pardon my language.

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Does anyone know if FAX still has their hybrid Orion V?

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Does anyone know if FAX still has their hybrid Orion V?

According to the Wiki, I believe those were Orion VI HEV's, unless of course it is missing from the roster...

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According to the Wiki, I believe those were Orion VI HEV's, unless of course it is missing from the roster...

0306 is the hybrid V. As far as I know, there was only one. I've never seen photos of the hybrid VIs, but that would be interesting to see.

fax-0306-32-2.jpg

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When would these buses be arriving?

I havent heard anything in the paper about the RFP or anything.

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The contract was awarded over a year ago. How long does it take for buses to arrive....?

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Does anyone know anything about Fresno FAX's retired fleet?

9001-9023 = 1990 Flxible Metro 40102-6T (Detroit Diesel 6V92TA / Voith D863.2-W7) (y'know, same as Miami-Dade Transit 9067-9073; Bee Line Transit 760-874)

9101-9112 = 1991 Gillig Phantom 40102TB6V92 (Detroit Diesel 6V92TA / Voith D863.2) (same as AC Transit 2601-2650, 2701-2765 and 2801-2860)

9301-9320 = 1993 Gillig Phantom 40102TBL10 (Cummins L10E CELECT / Voith D863.2) (same as TriMet 1401-1463 and 1601-1643; OCTA 4123-4152 and 4201-4263) (most of these units were repowered to Cummins ISM EPA 2003 engines)

9401-9412 = 1994 Gillig Phantom M11T40102 (Cummins M11E CELECT / Voith D863.2) (same as TriMet 2101-2160)

9601-9606 = 1996 Gillig Phantom S50T40102 (Detroit Diesel Series 50 / Voith D863.3) (same as Montgomery County RideOn 5360-5397, 5400-5409)

9701-9720 = 1997 Gillig Phantom C21D102N4 (Cummins M11E Plus / Voith D863.3) (same as TriMet 2101-2160)

9901-9910 = 1999 Gillig Advantage G18D102N4 (Cummins ISC / Voith D863.3)

According to the latest revision of the CPTDB Wiki FAX roster, it looks like they currently do not run any diesel transit buses, only CNG.

Still, I find their diesel fleet of buses they purchased throughout the 1990s to copy TriMet's, since they seemed to use Voith transmissions on these fleets.

~Ben

Edited by Benjamin

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Does anyone know anything about Fresno FAX's retired fleet?

9001-9023 = 1990 Flxible Metro 40102-6T (Detroit Diesel 6V92TA / Voith D863.2-W7) (y'know, same as Miami-Dade Transit 9067-9073; Bee Line Transit 760-874)

9101-9112 = 1991 Gillig Phantom 40102TB6V92 (Detroit Diesel 6V92TA / Voith D863.2) (same as AC Transit 2601-2650, 2701-2765 and 2801-2860)

9301-9320 = 1993 Gillig Phantom 40102TBL10 (Cummins L10E CELECT / Voith D863.2) (same as TriMet 1401-1463 and 1601-1643; OCTA 4123-4152 and 4201-4263) (most of these units were repowered to Cummins ISM EPA 2003 engines)

9401-9412 = 1994 Gillig Phantom M11T40102 (Cummins M11E CELECT / Voith D863.2) (same as TriMet 2101-2160)

9601-9606 = 1996 Gillig Phantom S50T40102 (Detroit Diesel Series 50 / Voith D863.3) (same as Montgomery County RideOn 5360-5397, 5400-5409)

9701-9720 = 1997 Gillig Phantom C21D102N4 (Cummins M11E Plus / Voith D863.3) (same as TriMet 2101-2160)

9901-9910 = 1999 Gillig Advantage G18D102N4 (Cummins ISC / Voith D863.3)

According to the latest revision of the CPTDB Wiki FAX roster, it looks like they currently do not run any diesel transit buses, only CNG.

For what it's worth, I saw a 9900 in service in Fresno last Sunday, so those buses are not yet retired.

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FAX's new Gillig BRT CNG is in service. Video courtesy of youtube user BusTVChan

This bus has the Cummins Westport ISL-G and Voith DIWA D864.5. Nice video of that bus as it passby with that great engine and transmission sound.

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FAX's new Gillig BRT CNG is in service. Video courtesy of youtube user BusTVChan

This bus has the Cummins Westport ISL-G and Voith DIWA D864.5. Nice video of that bus as it passby with that great engine and transmission sound.

During your trip there, were there any 1993-97 Gillig Phantoms left in service? I know a few '93 Phantoms did exist as of 2012, but I don't think they have them now. Most of them also were given replacement engines (Cummins ISM EPA 2003).

~Ben

Edited by Benjamin

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According to the Short Range Transit Plan adopted 6/27/13 there were 25 Phantoms remaining on the roster: 8 9300s, 6 9400s, 1 9600 and 10 9700s. Appendix D in the back of the SRTP indicates that 15 are part of a contingency fleet. In October I saw some of all types except the 9600 operate.

2 new 40' Gilligs were to arrive late last year. 7 40' Gilligs and a 30' Gillig are to be delivered this year. Also, the first of 17 60' coaches for future BRT service is due in August.

http://www.fresno.gov/NR/rdonlyres/2835317B-1DB7-42CE-831C-8BB41657F0FB/0/20142018ShortRangeTransitPlanFCMA.pdf

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That ‘new bus’ smell: FAX service reduces wait times to and from Fresno State

http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article125510249.html

Its the start of FAX15, "a new bus service with more buses, greater frequency and shorter waiting times for passengers.

The city’s transportation department bought 20 new buses for the service, which will roll on portions of Shaw and Cedar avenues to and from the university every 15 minutes. . .

The increased service began at 6 a.m. Monday, and will run from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. on weekdays."

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