JCL Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 Thread bump. An announcement from Mayor Watson to allow open payment: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTAmissions1 Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, JCL said: Thread bump. An announcement from Mayor Watson to allow open payment: After so many years, they finally are able to implement a solution to enable open payment (mobile devices, debit and credit cards). Doing a trial at one station (to be confirmed) by the end of this year with all stations and buses accepting open payment by the end of next year. The promise of this capability when Presto was being rolled out. The current method at stations is purchasing a ticket (contactless payment or cash) in order to access the fare gate by scanning the QR code. Presto and multi-day pass holders just tap on the gate and it will open. I assume that if you use contactless payment, the transfer will just be on your payment method noting that Translink has had this system since 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flalex72 Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 53 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said: After so many years, they finally are able to implement a solution to enable open payment (mobile devices, debit and credit cards). Doing a trial at one station (to be confirmed) by the end of this year with all stations and buses accepting open payment by the end of next year. The promise of this capability when Presto was being rolled out. The current method at stations is purchasing a ticket (contactless payment or cash) in order to access the fare gate by scanning the QR code. Presto and multi-day pass holders just tap on the gate and it will open. I assume that if you use contactless payment, the transfer will just be on your payment method noting that Translink has had this system since 2018. They key here is that it isn't PRESTO implementing this, it's OC Transpo locally. The open payments will be separate from PRESTO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud-Invero Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Flalex72 said: They key here is that it isn't PRESTO implementing this, it's OC Transpo locally. Which is the annoying part. I don't even understand why Presto couldn't have lead the initiative so they can set a standard amongst all transit agencies that use Presto. Then again, you can't even use their app to use your card, let alone any device through mobile payment processor. I'm of the opinion; while this is a good step the city is taking, I also think they should try to push metrolink to adopt virtual cards (Google, Apple, Samsung pay, etc). They've been putting the idea aside for too long and I'm sure it's starting to irritate many users Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flalex72 Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 On 8/21/2020 at 11:27 AM, Loud-Invero said: Which is the annoying part. I don't even understand why Presto couldn't have lead the initiative so they can set a standard amongst all transit agencies that use Presto. Then again, you can't even use their app to use your card, let alone any device through mobile payment processor. I'm of the opinion; while this is a good step the city is taking, I also think they should try to push metrolink to adopt virtual cards (Google, Apple, Samsung pay, etc). They've been putting the idea aside for too long and I'm sure it's starting to irritate many users PRESTO is a mess. At the time, it was somewhat novel and did some things that were not common on the market. The market quickly caught up though, and PRESTO started to look archaic. The system is also stuck under the control of Metrolinx, who contracts its operation out to Accenture. Accenture is well known for nickel and diming their customers, and this is primarily done through change orders. The TAs have little control because they have to go to Metrolinx, and Metrolinx farms everything out to Accenture at great expense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTAmissions1 Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 10 hours ago, Flalex72 said: PRESTO is a mess. At the time, it was somewhat novel and did some things that were not common on the market. The market quickly caught up though, and PRESTO started to look archaic. The system is also stuck under the control of Metrolinx, who contracts its operation out to Accenture. Accenture is well known for nickel and diming their customers, and this is primarily done through change orders. The TAs have little control because they have to go to Metrolinx, and Metrolinx farms everything out to Accenture at great expense. Especially with the cost being almost $1.2 billion dollars to develop the platform from the last reported figure. Can't forget that the two hour transfer for TTC cost $5 million to develop and program. Removing the transfer points code in exchange, programming two hours from the first tap. I don't blame transit agencies for figuring out ways to not deal with certain products on the Presto platform. With the large interchange fee (commission) for each transaction conducted on the Presto platform. On top, the rumour was if Presto was not adopted, the gas tax funding for public transit would be withheld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsbuspage Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 IMHO, OC would have done better to have adopted the Multi card system used by the STO, as far more Ottawa residents use the STO than the TTC or GO Transit. At the very least, there could have been an e-purse option that would have allowed OC riders to start a trip on the STO and vice versa, and Multi cards can also store (multi-)day passes as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting for 30 Minutes Posted August 27, 2020 Report Share Posted August 27, 2020 More information has been posted on OC Transpo's website regarding the new payment options. It says the program will apply to adult single-ride fares only for now, with expansion to other fare classes in the future. Also, Apple Pay and Google Pay will also be accepted, which might mean Interac and American Express will also be indirectly accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flalex72 Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 17 hours ago, Waiting for 30 Minutes said: More information has been posted on OC Transpo's website regarding the new payment options. It says the program will apply to adult single-ride fares only for now, with expansion to other fare classes in the future. Also, Apple Pay and Google Pay will also be accepted, which might mean Interac and American Express will also be indirectly accepted. Apple and Google pay still process transactions over the network of the card they are emulating, so it is unlikely that Amex and Interac will be a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting for 30 Minutes Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Flalex72 said: Apple and Google pay still process transactions over the network of the card they are emulating, so it is unlikely that Amex and Interac will be a go. Good to know. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTAmissions1 Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 Minimum Presto loads via online channels is going down to a minimum five cents versus $10. Mobile app requires a new update being pushed out next week to process value loads under the new system. Hoping that the remaining channels are pushed to the new threshold minimum of loading value. On top, if you report your card lost or stolen, you won't be responsible for any charges. It was previously that the first 24 hours of the card being reported, the customer is responsible for any charges. Especially with auto-load kicking in when the balance reaches a certain amount, it would cause concern especially with debit or credit card info saved. https://blog.metrolinx.com/2020/09/23/how-low-can-you-go-presto-reduces-the-minimum-load-on-online-channels/ At the same time, the minimum value load will be $5 at ticket vending machines. Will take some time to provide the ability at ticket machines. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flalex72 Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 14 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said: Minimum Presto loads via online channels is going down to a minimum five cents versus $10. Mobile app requires a new update being pushed out next week to process value loads under the new system. Hoping that the remaining channels are pushed to the new threshold minimum of loading value. On top, if you report your card lost or stolen, you won't be responsible for any charges. It was previously that the first 24 hours of the card being reported, the customer is responsible for any charges. Especially with auto-load kicking in when the balance reaches a certain amount, it would cause concern especially with debit or credit card info saved. https://blog.metrolinx.com/2020/09/23/how-low-can-you-go-presto-reduces-the-minimum-load-on-online-channels/ At the same time, the minimum value load will be $5 at ticket vending machines. Will take some time to provide the ability at ticket machines. I can't see them changing to $.05 at the ticket machines. The machines only load in $5 amounts, they are simplified compared to other options where you can enter dollars and cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud-Invero Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 I'm really starting to like these pro consumer moves! My biggest problem (other than the lack of Phone NFC payment) was the minimum load of $10. WIth Equipass (which I have), I only need $5 to take 3 trips so this is a welcoming change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCL Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 OC Transpo has now begun testing on Open Payment at Rideau Station. https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/new-way-to-pay-at-rideau-station/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud-Invero Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 So how exactly would someone have P.O.P if they use their credit card during the trial period? Let's say I'm at Rideau and pay with credit card and I get off at Lees to take a 55 to Elmvale. After I leave the LRT to board a bus at Lees Station, how do I provide P.O.P to the bus operator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTAmissions1 Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, JCL said: OC Transpo has now begun testing on Open Payment at Rideau Station. https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/new-way-to-pay-at-rideau-station/ Nice to see they finally rolled it out at the one turnstile. Noting that Rideau doesn't have a fare paid zone which is one of the highest volume stations. Tunney's, Hurdman and Blair have fare paid zones (I am aware one side of Blair still requires front door boarding/proof of payment fares) where most of the passengers transfer without needing to show/verify fare. Reminds me of OMNY (One Metro New York) which has a similar setup. 1 minute ago, Loud-Invero said: So how exactly would someone have P.O.P if they use their credit card during the trial period? Let's say I'm at Rideau and pay with credit card and I get off at Lees to take a 55 to Elmvale. After I leave the LRT to board a bus at Lees Station, how do I provide P.O.P to the bus operator? This isn't intended for people who are transferring to another bus or doing another trip within the transfer time yet. Once the infrastructure is installed, then you would just tap on the next enabled bus. Presto/ticket is the best option in this station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting for 30 Minutes Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, GTAmissions1 said: This isn't intended for people who are transferring to another bus or doing another trip within the transfer time yet. Once the infrastructure is installed, then you would just tap on the next enabled bus. Presto/ticket is the best option in this station. Further to the point, pilot projects are often deliberately designed with several limitations as a way to assess if the technology works as intended. Expanded features and/or availability will come with a "soft launch" (not all companies undertake soft launches), then fully as advertised when it formally launches. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCIBUS Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 Not foe me. Don't trust using a debit or credit card on that type of system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting for 30 Minutes Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 47 minutes ago, MCIBUS said: Not foe me. Don't trust using a debit or credit card on that type of system. Duly noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Walton Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 12:32 PM, JCL said: OC Transpo has now begun testing on Open Payment at Rideau Station. https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/new-way-to-pay-at-rideau-station/ Will the smartphone version be anything like Calgary's myFare? I used that app on my last visit to Calgary last summer (I didn't go there at Christmas as I usually do), using a day pass for each day, and it worked well enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flalex72 Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mark Walton said: Will the smartphone version be anything like Calgary's myFare? I used that app on my last visit to Calgary last summer (I didn't go there at Christmas as I usually do), using a day pass for each day, and it worked well enough for me. The system just takes a credit card, so there's no OC Transpo app - it just uses Apple Pay / Google Pay like any other transaction. OC Transpo is in a good place to implement app based ticketing as the faregates support barcodes, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards at the moment. Edited February 18, 2021 by Flalex72 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudebrains Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 16 hours ago, Flalex72 said: The system just takes a credit card, so there's no OC Transpo app - it just uses Apple Pay / Google Pay like any other transaction. OC Transpo is in a good place to implement app based ticketing as the faregates support barcodes, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards at the moment. The system itself seems to be pretty good. My biggest concern is that the system doesn't appear to support Debit cards. It's also going to be interesting to see how PoP is issued so that people can't just say "I used my Visa" to get away with fare evasion... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud-Invero Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 39 minutes ago, dudebrains said: the system doesn't appear to support Debit cards It only supports Visa or Mastercard Credit Cards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flalex72 Posted February 19, 2021 Report Share Posted February 19, 2021 20 hours ago, dudebrains said: The system itself seems to be pretty good. My biggest concern is that the system doesn't appear to support Debit cards. It's also going to be interesting to see how PoP is issued so that people can't just say "I used my Visa" to get away with fare evasion... There are different ways to handle open payments. Critical to keeping things moving quickly is that they don't usually process payments in real-time. This means that when you tap, your card is recorded and the the gate opens, but there's no guarantee you have credit available to pay immediately. Often, the system records credit cards throughout the day and might run an authorization shortly after you tap, but will only total up your purchases overnight and then finally bill you for your usage. There's a balance in these systems between fraud prevention and low costs. Each transaction costs money, so if you can gather a few of them up and process one customer's trips at the end of the day, that is cheaper. It comes with a risk that they don't have available credit, but when that happens or when the authorization fails they usually blacklist the card so you can't get on again. The issue is fare inspection. Because data is not recorded onto the card, the fare inspectors often just tap your card and can;t see if you've tapped on. One solution is to record that your card was presented for inspection, and then bill you for the fine amount at the end of the day if you hadn't tapped on earlier. Debit creates a host of issues because of the need to extend credit to users until the system reconciles at the end of the day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureHeartsJunkie Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 11:25 PM, Flalex72 said: The system just takes a credit card, so there's no OC Transpo app - it just uses Apple Pay / Google Pay like any other transaction. OC Transpo is in a good place to implement app based ticketing as the faregates support barcodes, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards at the moment. I've inquired through OC Transpo's Twitter page - if the new system will accept "Samsung Pay" (Yes, I have a Samsung device but they both support Samsung Pay along with Google Pay)? They told me that they will get back into the issue. 48 hours later, they advised me that their new system handles Samsung Pay. That being "unadvertised" however - is anyone's guess. If any folks have a Samsung device and have a Visa or MasterCard linked to Samsung Pay, use it at your own risk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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