GRT Route Discussion

[rivercat]

Route 3 Ottawa South to Forest Glen turns into the 4 Glasgow at the terminal every day, from 6:15am to 5:45pm, with two exceptions:

7:00am leaving from Forest Glen (still goes to the Terminal, but continues as the 3)

7:15am leaving from the Terminal (continues as the three)

Any other 'secrets' any of you have found out, either the hard way or by calling the Terminal? Let's keep each other informed!

[Guest GRT Kid]

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[Transit 20]

hey everybody when the fall schedule starts the

2 Forest Hill changes to the 18 Guelph Street till 3 pm

3 Ottawa South Changes To 16 Conestoga College At Forest Glen

and over Christmas the

21 Elmira at 12.40 pm changes to 9 Lakeshore To UW

16 Conestoga College Changes to The 10 Fairview Park At Conestoga College for the summer

8 Fairview Via Franklin Changes to the 17 Heritage Park

[Greater Golden Horseshoe Transit]

On the old style pocket schedules for Cambridge, GRT used to have "interlining notes". I wish they did that for the K-W pocket schedules (unless they're changing them this fall to the new style)

The Headway Reports (the master schedules for the system) include in them all the interlining information for every trip, it would not be difficult to add a column before and after the main schedule saying where the bus came from and where it's going to. I usually keep copies of them on my desk at home for reference, but I may start printing 1/2 size bound copies to keep with me on the bus.

Interlining isn't actually a "secret" it's just not as well advertised as it should be.

[mpd618]

Interlining isn't actually a "secret" it's just not as well advertised as it should be.

Conveniently, interlining is included in Google transit directions. (Which, I guess, are themselves currently a bit of a secret.)

[GRT 9401]

I'm not sure what times they start and stop interlining, but:

- 16 Forest Glen departs from Conestoga College (as the 16 Conestoga College) and turns into 3 Ottawa South to Downtown

- 3 Ottawa South to Forest Glen turns into 16 Conestoga College

- 24 Highland turns into 1 Stanley Park, so does 25 Queen South

- 33 Huron stays as 33 Huron

I would of listed more, but they are already mentioned above.

Also welcome to the board rivercat.

[Nova4]

I'm not sure what times they start and stop interlining, but:

24 Highland turns into 1 Stanley Park, so does 25 Queen South

Also welcome to the board rivercat.

The 24 Highland has no interlining route until 7:45pm Monday to Saturday. The 7:30 25 Queen South to Downtown turns into the 24 Highland upon arrival at the terminial. The 24 leaving HHM at 7:40 goes out of service once it reaches the terminal. The routing for these 2 routes can be very confusing in the evenings. I've had to direct drivers before so they don't get lost!

[D4500]

Conveniently, interlining is included in Google transit directions. (Which, I guess, are themselves currently a bit of a secret.)

I wonder how much ridership would increase if the interlining stopped? Hmmmm?

[mpd618]

I wonder how much ridership would increase if the interlining stopped? Hmmmm?

I... don't follow. Why would it?

[D4500]

I... don't follow. Why would it?

Well if all the buses turned around and went back from whence they came, ie; 24 Highland, the customers would then have to transfer to another bus in effect raising "transfer" ridership.

The way it is now, for example the 7C Conestoga Mall and the 14 Bathurst during the am peak service, the 7C picks up all the way up to the mall and then turns into the 14 when it gets there. Now assuming that 3/4 of the people stay on to go out to work and 2 people get on from other routes at the mall the farebox ridership for the 14 Bathurst is 2.

If the 7 went back out as a 7 then the customers would have to transfer to the 14 increasing the farebox ridership to say 30, as an estimate, thus increasing the 14's ridership by 300% (ballpark figure, please don't do the math and correct me )

[Greater Golden Horseshoe Transit]

Well if all the buses turned around and went back from whence they came, ie; 24 Highland, the customers would then have to transfer to another bus in effect raising "transfer" ridership.

The way it is now, for example the 7C Conestoga Mall and the 14 Bathurst during the am peak service, the 7C picks up all the way up to the mall and then turns into the 14 when it gets there. Now assuming that 3/4 of the people stay on to go out to work and 2 people get on from other routes at the mall the farebox ridership for the 14 Bathurst is 2.

If the 7 went back out as a 7 then the customers would have to transfer to the 14 increasing the farebox ridership to say 30, as an estimate, thus increasing the 14's ridership by 300% (ballpark figure, please don't do the math and correct me )

This is exactly the kind of thing the Automatic Passenger Counters (APC's) are supposed to correct. Less and less will the farebox be the ridership counter and will be relied on only for rough financials (ie. what "kinds" of boardings there are). Since the APC's track both boarding and alighting of passengers they will record those people who, in the 7C/14 example, disembark at Conestoga Mall but there will still be numbers of peeps remaining on the count of those on the bus for the next trip. I've already been told by the planners and schedulers that the data they're collecting from the APC's installed so far (they get put in at the same time as the rest of the INIT system) is like comparing night and day with what they had before.

[mpd618]

I've already been told by the planners and schedulers that the data they're collecting from the APC's installed so far (they get put in at the same time as the rest of the INIT system) is like comparing night and day with what they had before.

That's really good to hear, considering most of the fleet should get INIT this year. I would like to see this fine-grained data on ridership made public.

[rivercat]

Has anyone noticed that the route the number 8 buses take forms the number eight? I used to take this route all the time. I've always referred to it as the Crazy Eight, because of the long routes and he numerous 8 routes there are.

[Felix]

Yes, the route has been configured like that ever since the Kitchener Transit days.

[Transit 20]

hey everybody i live on the 8 Fairview Via Courtland i like this route because if i need to get to fairview mall i dont have to run up to the terminal all the time

[Transit Man]

Has anyone noticed that the route the number 8 buses take forms the number eight? I used to take this route all the time. I've always referred to it as the Crazy Eight, because of the long routes and he numerous 8 routes there are.

Wow! How long has it taken you to figure that out? Just look at a Rt. 8 Schedule map and it's pretty obvious it's a figure 8! Defiantely "CRAZY"! That's for sure.

[Guest GRT Kid]

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[rivercat]

Wow! How long has it taken you to figure that out? Just look at a Rt. 8 Schedule map and it's pretty obvious it's a figure 8! Defiantely "CRAZY"! That's for sure.

About eight seconds after looking at the route map! I wonder if they called it the 8 because of the shape of the route, or because it travels near Highway Eight? Maybe there's truth in both?

Too bad that 8 Franklin and 8 Courtland run every 30 minutes all day Monday to Saturday (every 45 on Sundays). I'm moving onto 8 Courtland next Saturday - it's going to be quite a change from 7B

The 7's are great, I agree. No point in looking at the schedules really, since they run so regularly. Although, if you need to meet a connection, as I often do, I found that its best to be armed with a 7 Schedule.

[Jason L]

Yes, it's numbered like that because it travels roughly in the figure 8. It says so on the Wikipedia page for GRT xD. Just like the other routes, there really is only one 8 eight route, (except perhaps that variation at East Ave.), as in when it comes into Charles Terminal it will always go out the opposite "corner" (unless it's signed 8 Downtown, where you don't know what it'll do after arriving at Charles Terminal.) - so it travels in a figure 8, and it's not just shaped like it . All the different destination signs are to reduce confusion. I still feel that the printed schedule brochure to be kinda confusing though . I almost always just text the stop when needed.

[Greater Golden Horseshoe Transit]

Yes, it's numbered like that because it travels roughly in the figure 8. It says so on the Wikipedia page for GRT xD. Just like the other routes, there really is only one 8 eight route, (except perhaps that variation at East Ave.), as in when it comes into Charles Terminal it will always go out the opposite "corner" (unless it's signed 8 Downtown, where you don't know what it'll do after arriving at Charles Terminal.) - so it travels in a figure 8, and it's not just shaped like it . All the different destination signs are to reduce confusion. I still feel that the printed schedule brochure to be kinda confusing though . I almost always just text the stop when needed.

Really? From the average plain Joe's point of view (ie. the average customer, not the bus fans who spend hours studying these things and the transit employees who've been driving the route for years) this route is a pain in the arse to figure out. Examples (all of which I have been asked)...

"8 Fairview via Weber and Courtland" - they're parallel roads on the opposites sides of town, which way do you go Courtland or Weber?

"8 University via Weber" - No I'm sorry, I don't go past the VIA Station, or the Service Canada office, yeah I know they're on Weber Street, I actually go up Margaret Ave.

"8 Downtown" - There's two 8 Downtown's, one on each side of the road, which one is "really" the one that goes downtown?...well, they both do actually.

My opinion (at least until the system is redsigned to feed the rapid transit network, then the existing routing will probably go bye-bye anyways) is to give each of the 4 legs of the route a seperate name and number and their own timetable. Most people using the route only use a quarter of the information in the schedule anyways, and operationally the routing of the buses themselves wouldn't need to change, they're just "interlining" at Charles Street, Fairview and King/Univ.

[Jason L]

Really? From the average plain Joe's point of view (ie. the average customer, not the bus fans who spend hours studying these things and the transit employees who've been driving the route for years) this route is a pain in the arse to figure out. Examples (all of which I have been asked)...

"8 Fairview via Weber and Courtland" - they're parallel roads on the opposites sides of town, which way do you go Courtland or Weber?

"8 University via Weber" - No I'm sorry, I don't go past the VIA Station, or the Service Canada office, yeah I know they're on Weber Street, I actually go up Margaret Ave.

"8 Downtown" - There's two 8 Downtown's, one on each side of the road, which one is "really" the one that goes downtown?...well, they both do actually.

My opinion (at least until the system is redsigned to feed the rapid transit network, then the existing routing will probably go bye-bye anyways) is to give each of the 4 legs of the route a seperate name and number and their own timetable. Most people using the route only use a quarter of the information in the schedule anyways, and operationally the routing of the buses themselves wouldn't need to change, they're just "interlining" at Charles Street, Fairview and King/Univ.

okay, fine... *attempt* to reduce confusion by showing the two sides it'll take xD. Just trying to explain why there are so many destination signs

And why doesn't it go to the VIA station anyway but "conveniently" go around it when it says via Weber? Just wondering...

Well I've read that we used to have 8A and 8B... then GRT decided to go the opposite way and merge them...

But yeah, your idea would probably be better... and the sign changes for each of the 4 sections of the route anyway.... though.... it could bring up more confusion for those wanting to travel more than 1 leg of the route, with people not sure where it'll go after it passes Charles Terminal/Fairview/University because it'll be harder to make that mental connection between the one route path and the overall path...

[Greater Golden Horseshoe Transit]

okay, fine... *attempt* to reduce confusion by showing the two sides it'll take xD. Just trying to explain why there are so many destination signs

And why doesn't it go to the VIA station anyway but "conveniently" go around it when it says via Weber? Just wondering...

Well I've read that we used to have 8A and 8B... then GRT decided to go the opposite way and merge them...

But yeah, your idea would probably be better... and the sign changes for each of the 4 sections of the route anyway.... though.... it could bring up more confusion for those wanting to travel more than 1 leg of the route, with people not sure where it'll go after it passes Charles Terminal/Fairview/University because it'll be harder to make that mental connection between the one route path and the overall path...

Which brings me to the other thread, the "GRT Secrets" thread. I think that all the interlining information for all the routes should be published in the timetables as well. As I mentioned in the other thread this information is already available in the headways reports (aka the Master Schedules) and it would not be difficult to add two columns to the timetables showing where the bus came from before starting that trip and where it's going when finished. Also, with the INIT system being installed in more and more buses, the route is displayed on the interior screen when the bus is sitting with the doors open at the terminal.

[Guest GRT Kid]

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[Jason L]

Oh, here's something I've noticed...

It seems that every Sunday evening at about 7pm a Rt. 7 departs Conestoga Mall signed 7 UNIVERSITY AND KING then it short turns via King-University-Regina-Lodge-King then returns to Conestoga Mall as a 7C. Anyone know more about this particular route, what its purpose is (because I don't recall seeing passengers on it), possible interlines, and why it doesn't seem to show up on the timetable?

[taylortbb]

(bad, but trying to keep it "GRT realistic")

What constitutes "GRT realistic" is changing. The approved RTMP directs GRT to take all routes to service every 5 minutes or better during rush hour, excluding a couple which would run every 10. There's also very significant evening/weekend service increases and new routes. The RTMP plans enough service to require more than tripling the size of the GRT fleet. It will be implemented over the next 20 years, starting next year. Expect to see very significant improvements soon, much larger yearly increases than GRT has done previously.