Vancouver-Naniamo SERVICE changing??

[roeco]

Greyhound will change the way they operate their Vancouver to Nanaimo service...From what I hear they will have the majority of their runs just drop at one ferry terminal (Horseshoe Bay or Departure Bay) and pick up at the other, with NO BUS ON THE FERRY,Except for two runs per day from each terminal which will go on the Ferry!! IS RIDERSHIP REALLY THAT BAD on this run?? Cause I know People use that service especially for the Convenience of being on the bus all the way, If you wanted to be a foot passenger u would, but people who choose to ride with Greyhound do so cause they dont want to walk on!!

Greyhound will change the way they operate their Vancouver to Nanaimo service...From what I hear they will have the majority of their runs just drop at one ferry terminal (Horseshoe Bay or Departure Bay) and pick up at the other, with NO BUS ON THE FERRY,Except for two runs per day from each terminal which will go on the Ferry!! IS RIDERSHIP REALLY THAT BAD on this run?? Cause I know People use that service especially for the Convenience of being on the bus all the way, If you wanted to be a foot passenger u would, but people who choose to ride with Greyhound do so cause they dont want to walk on!!

I know Pacific Coach Lines would see an increase in business as many people will go take them from Vancouver to Victoria then take the bus up to Nanaimo just for the convenience! Are they even allowed to do this?? Many people will NOT BE HAPPY!! Can Greyhound even do this does it not affect their Passenger Transportation license??? Cause any one can take people to Horseshoe or Departure Bay drop them off and pick up on the other side!

[A. Wong]

I guess they can do whatever they want - unless of course providing that service is a condition of their license.

People should be getting off the bus anyways on the ferry, so they just have to walk off the ferry and catch a bus at another location rather than board the bus again on the boat itself.

[airwolf]

This change is NOT happening folks! It was supposed to start on July 12th, but after a meeting with Greyhound Management, BC Ferries Management, and the Ministry of Transportation, Greyhound has rescinded this notice of change.

BTW Ridership on this run is VERY low. The two runs a day they were planning to send on the boat are the only runs with an average passenger count of 20 or more. Every other run averages 6-12 passengers.

[roeco]

This change is NOT happening folks! It was supposed to start on July 12th, but after a meeting with Greyhound Management, BC Ferries Management, and the Ministry of Transportation, Greyhound has rescinded this notice of change.

BTW Ridership on this run is VERY low. The two runs a day they were planning to send on the boat are the only runs with an average passenger count of 20 or more. Every other run averages 6-12 passengers.

wow...passenger counts have dropped alot...I lived on the island for many many years and commuted back and forth on the bus at least 3 times a month and thats when Maverick had the Vancouver to Nanaimo run, however thats also when connections we're much better and prices we're reasonable, they then had no less than 20 people per bus. I can't believe that weekends and long weekends are even that bad especially in summer and over school holidays.

I wonder what made them change their minds?? Hmm..maybe B.C. Ferries is giving them a discounted rate...and I bet BC Ferries were the ones to initiate the meeting. If the rates were a little lower then Im sure you would see more people riding the bus all the way across.

[airwolf]

wow...passenger counts have dropped alot...I lived on the island for many many years and commuted back and forth on the bus at least 3 times a month and thats when Maverick had the Vancouver to Nanaimo run, however thats also when connections we're much better and prices we're reasonable, they then had no less than 20 people per bus. I can't believe that weekends and long weekends are even that bad especially in summer and over school holidays.

I wonder what made them change their minds?? Hmm..maybe B.C. Ferries is giving them a discounted rate...and I bet BC Ferries were the ones to initiate the meeting. If the rates were a little lower then Im sure you would see more people riding the bus all the way across.

The only time passenger counts are way up is at Christmas time when we really need to send two buses. BTW PCL is in some financial trouble too. Effective Aug 1 PCL no longer has a bus on the even hour sailings between Tsawwassen and Swartz Bay.

[roeco]

The only time passenger counts are way up is at Christmas time when we really need to send two buses. BTW PCL is in some financial trouble too. Effective Aug 1 PCL no longer has a bus on the even hour sailings between Tsawwassen and Swartz Bay.

I was wondering about PCL for quite some time now, they buy all those newer buses and I was wondering how they could pay for them all(well not new but i bet they cost alot). They should sell off some of their newer stuff, cause really Victoria to Vancouver you dont need no fancy newer buses. Their older fleet does ok and I'm assuming thats why they've kept alot of the old MC8's cause they work why change them! Same with the Nanaimo to Vancouver run, Maverick never ran newer buses, sure they were old but they did the job and were paid for.

[MCW Metrobus]

I was wondering about PCL for quite some time now, they buy all those newer buses and I was wondering how they could pay for them all(well not new but i bet they cost alot). They should sell off some of their newer stuff, cause really Victoria to Vancouver you dont need no fancy newer buses. Their older fleet does ok and I'm assuming thats why they've kept alot of the old MC8's cause they work why change them! Same with the Nanaimo to Vancouver run, Maverick never ran newer buses, sure they were old but they did the job and were paid for.

Those newer buses are all still under lease, they were never purchased outright as the company simply took over the leases from Perimeter when they acquired the buses in December of 2008. PCL gave up on the YVR-Nanaimo service after barely a year due to poor ridership, but I attribute this mostly to poor marketing. PCL and marketing never really did get along very well.

[roeco]

Those newer buses are all still under lease, they were never purchased outright as the company simply took over the leases from Perimeter when they acquired the buses in December of 2008. PCL gave up on the YVR-Nanaimo service after barely a year due to poor ridership, but I attribute this mostly to poor marketing. PCL and marketing never really did get along very well.

Any idea how many people they were carrying per trip, I thought something like the YVR-Nanaimo would do well, however Marketing is a Key thing as well as using the right kind of equipment, A full size bus was just way too big for that service. Something around 15-20 passenger would have been quite sufficent.

[Dane]

Would be a way of saving the fee for carrying the bus itself on those runs

I liked the PCL, left my luggage down below and away I went, would hate to even think about having to schlep my luggage with me on board

The fee for carrying the bus must be very high. No idea what it is, but it can't be cheap unless it is subsidized. BC Ferries, in its current bogus form has no mandate to provide cheap service for anyone except a very small group which is in legislation and the contract with the Province. There are no bus lines in that contract. Given the BCF has checked baggage available the loss of the bus on the ferry certainly wouldn't be that bad - particularly if ridership was that low. An empty-ish bus just takes up deck space.

Those newer buses are all still under lease, they were never purchased outright as the company simply took over the leases from Perimeter when they acquired the buses in December of 2008. PCL gave up on the YVR-Nanaimo service after barely a year due to poor ridership, but I attribute this mostly to poor marketing. PCL and marketing never really did get along very well.

That said the ridership stats on the ferry route would also demonstrate fairly low traffic for that type of service... low foot pax count and a lot of through commercial/personal trips traffic that isn't actually bound for Nanaimo, or the airport.

[airwolf]

After the decision this past spring to reverse the decision to change to a pick and drop service on this corridor, Greyhound suddenly changed this morning to a pick and drop service on the Vancouver-Nanaimo route. Two buses a day still board the ferry in each direction. There is definitely alot of anger so far from both passenger and employees who were notified of this change this morning. Passengers who have tickets that include the Ferry Tolls but are taking one of the trips that doesn't board the ferry can take their ticket into the ticket office and have the ferry tolls refunded. Times they are a changing. This was done with out any authorization from the Passenger Transportation Board. This may be a direct challenge to the authority of the Passenger Transportation Board, who showed last November that even though Greyhound went further with their cuts on the Sea-to-Sky corridor, they would turn a blind eye even with public complaints being filed.

[roeco]

After the decision this past spring to reverse the decision to change to a pick and drop service on this corridor, Greyhound suddenly changed this morning to a pick and drop service on the Vancouver-Nanaimo route. Two buses a day still board the ferry in each direction. There is definitely alot of anger so far from both passenger and employees who were notified of this change this morning. Passengers who have tickets that include the Ferry Tolls but are taking one of the trips that doesn't board the ferry can take their ticket into the ticket office and have the ferry tolls refunded. Times they are a changing. This was done with out any authorization from the Passenger Transportation Board. This may be a direct challenge to the authority of the Passenger Transportation Board, who showed last November that even though Greyhound went further with their cuts on the Sea-to-Sky corridor, they would turn a blind eye even with public complaints being filed.

Obviously Greyhound doesn't want to run the Island or the cross water service at all, well maybe they should give up their license for the Island and cross water service to someone who will run it! The simple solution on the Nanaimo to Vancouver service if some runs dont have alot of passengers then run smaller buses...thats not rocket science..Especially if its consistent passenger numbers.. For the cross water service you dont have to get fancy...just decent vehicles...Simple and they dont even have to be new or elaborate. A service could be run very profitable to a smaller operator if Greyhound has no desire to run it. Same with the Island, someone could make some serious competition on the cross water as well as a sea to sky commuter from Squamish to Vancouver in the am and back in the pm if they had the right plan and right equipment.

I think PCL needs to seriously look at expanding their services, maybe in partnership with someone to buy out Greyhounds licences on the Island and cross water Vancouver to Nanaimo service.

THE PTB will NOT take a blind eye to this one as its a very important service to many people, just ask Pacific Coach Lines if they would ever consider what Greyhound is doing, It would never happen.

[airwolf]

THE PTB will NOT take a blind eye to this one as its a very important service to many people, just ask Pacific Coach Lines if they would ever consider what Greyhound is doing, It would never happen.

I am hoping that they take action soon. I would personally like to start my own company and show Greyhound how this business shoud be run. Maybe this can be a way for that to happen but I would definitely need some financial assistance to do that.

[canuck600]

Re the smaller vehicles that will just add to Greyhounds debt load unless they use money from selling older full size coaches. Also another point you can only put 24 passengers on a mini, so if you have more then that you need another bus and what about luggage/freight capacity? For a company like greyhound sticking with bigger buses makes more sense operationally. Also mini buses don't have the long term durability that a coach has.

[roeco]

Re the smaller vehicles that will just add to Greyhounds debt load unless they use money from selling older full size coaches. Also another point you can only put 24 passengers on a mini, so if you have more then that you need another bus and what about luggage/freight capacity? For a company like greyhound sticking with bigger buses makes more sense operationally. Also mini buses don't have the long term durability that a coach has.

You just think smart...buy short wheel based buses like an MCI-5 or something similar that is shorter and costs less on the ferry..then its a little easier to justify running the service vs a 40 foot 47 or even more seat coach. An Independent company running smaller coaches like i said an MCI-5 or something like Malaspina has with No Union..provide good customer service and offer family deals or off peak deals and draw more customers. Like I said before you dont need to have an elaborate operation. Customer service is KEY!! And being on all the sailings is important(you may be able to get away with not being on 1 during the off peak season) and in the summer being on every sailing..people like convenience and thats what the service offers.

Also their are mini buses out their that hold more than 24 passengers and some even have a luggage area in the back. In terms of freight on the runs you use larger buses you could send the freight over on them and even send a 1 ton or cube van or something over if theirs really that much freight or even have a combo bus in the fleet to use to carry freight, they carry usually about 31 people and that should be sufficent for most sailings.

Also a Squamish to Vancouver commuter service would be a nice compliment leave Squamish 6:30 into Vancouver at 8... leave Vancouver around 5 and back into Squamish by 630. And while in Vancouver do a couple ferry crossings to Nanaimo and back, a very good and resourcefull use of Equipment. I bet a Squamish to Vancouver commuer could do very well, as it was very well patronized before Greyhound cut it...on average 20 people or so per trip and they still chopped it.

[roeco]

Since this has been implemented how is the public re-acting, Im assuming pretty upset. However you know Ive noticed something, If they have buses going the Vancouver depot to Horseshoe Bay and dropping off on 4 of the runs, Are they also picking up people from Horseshoe Bay?? Same with Departure Bay?? Cause on some of the drop offs their was technically no bus on that ferry or vice versa, Are they now providing service on more ferry sailings by picking up people.

[airwolf]

Since this has been implemented how is the public re-acting, Im assuming pretty upset. However you know Ive noticed something, If they have buses going the Vancouver depot to Horseshoe Bay and dropping off on 4 of the runs, Are they also picking up people from Horseshoe Bay?? Same with Departure Bay?? Cause on some of the drop offs their was technically no bus on that ferry or vice versa, Are they now providing service on more ferry sailings by picking up people.

You are correct in assuming that they are also picking up from Horseshoe Bay. You are also correct in assuming the same with Departure Bay. Unfortunately there is no increase in service this way. It would be against condidtions of licence to pick up off any other ferries than the Horseshoe Bay-Departure Bay route.

The public is re-acting as expected. Our drivers are bearing the brunt of the wrath of an illinformed decision of some paperpusher in Dallas.

[roeco]

You are correct in assuming that they are also picking up from Horseshoe Bay. You are also correct in assuming the same with Departure Bay. Unfortunately there is no increase in service this way. It would be against condidtions of licence to pick up off any other ferries than the Horseshoe Bay-Departure Bay route.

The public is re-acting as expected. Our drivers are bearing the brunt of the wrath of an illinformed decision of some paperpusher in Dallas.

I know the last time they were going to do this they we're going to have buses leaving Vancouver at 7:30 am to catch the 8:30 am sailing and I believe at 11:45 am to catch the 12:50 pm sailing...and from Nanaimo I believe it was 12:20 pm to catch the 12:50pm sailing and 2:45 pm to catch the 3:10 sailing. And those were the only ones that were going to go on the ferry. However they never used to have a bus on the 5:20 pm sailing from Horseshoe Bay however they would have to have a bus leaving Vancouver to pick up the people from the 310 Departure Bay sailing that gets into Horseshoe Bay at around 4:50pm so would they not also pick up people in Vancouver to take them to the 5:20 sailing from Horseshoe Bay,cause I wouldnt think they would Deadhead to Horseshoe Bay.Also the 7:30 sailing that leaves Departure Bay on the weekends in the winter would they not also connect with that one as they would have to be at Horseshoe Bay anyways to take people to the 9:35 sailing. The only sailing they would have to deadhead back is the bus that would leave at 5:30 am from Vancouver catching the 6:20 am sailing. As well as the 9:35 sailing getting into Departure Bay at 11pm they would have to deadhead from Nanaimo to Departure Bay to pick up for that sailing. So in reality this would provide service to ALL sailings except the 6:30 am out of Departure Bay.

I know the last time they were going to do this they we're going to have buses leaving Vancouver at 7:30 am to catch the 8:30 am sailing and I believe at 11:45 am to catch the 12:50 pm sailing...and from Nanaimo I believe it was 12:20 pm to catch the 12:50pm sailing and 2:45 pm to catch the 3:10 sailing. And those were the only ones that were going to go on the ferry. However they never used to have a bus on the 5:20 pm sailing from Horseshoe Bay however they would have to have a bus leaving Vancouver to pick up the people from the 310 Departure Bay sailing that gets into Horseshoe Bay at around 4:50pm so would they not also pick up people in Vancouver to take them to the 5:20 sailing from Horseshoe Bay,cause I wouldnt think they would Deadhead to Horseshoe Bay.Also the 7:30 sailing that leaves Departure Bay on the weekends in the winter would they not also connect with that one as they would have to be at Horseshoe Bay anyways to take people to the 9:35 sailing. The only sailing they would have to deadhead back is the bus that would leave at 5:30 am from Vancouver catching the 6:20 am sailing. As well as the 9:35 sailing getting into Departure Bay at 11pm they would have to deadhead from Nanaimo to Departure Bay to pick up for that sailing. So in reality this would provide service to ALL sailings except the 6:30 am out of Departure Bay.

Obviously they would not have a bus connecting with the two evening schedules that are cancelled in the winter months 935 from HB and 730 from Departure Bay, Mon to Thurs.

[airwolf]

Effective immediately, all picks and drops on the Vancouver-Nanaimo service are cancelled. BC Ferries has served Greyhound with a letter stating that they are prohibited from entering the Terminal unless the coach is boarding the ferry. There is also a dispute going on between BC Ferries and the Nanaimo area taxi companies. They as well are prohibited from entering the terminal property. Apparently BC Ferries wants to charge both Greyhound and the taxi companies for the "privellege" of entering the terminal to drop off or pick up. Neither Greyhound nor the taxi companies are willing to pay. This now leaves Greyhound with two buses a day in each direction between Vancouver and Nanaimo, a clear violation of Greyhound's conditions of licence, which require's six buses daily in each direction.

[roeco]

Effective immediately, all picks and drops on the Vancouver-Nanaimo service are cancelled. BC Ferries has served Greyhound with a letter stating that they are prohibited from entering the Terminal unless the coach is boarding the ferry. There is also a dispute going on between BC Ferries and the Nanaimo area taxi companies. They as well are prohibited from entering the terminal property. Apparently BC Ferries wants to charge both Greyhound and the taxi companies for the "privellege" of entering the terminal to drop off or pick up. Neither Greyhound nor the taxi companies are willing to pay. This now leaves Greyhound with two buses a day in each direction between Vancouver and Nanaimo, a clear violation of Greyhound's conditions of licence, which require's six buses daily in each direction.

You we're one step ahead of me I was going to post just that, anyways heres a bit more to add;

The schedules they have are

Lv Vancouver 7:30am, Arrive Nanaimo 10:25am

Lv Vancouver 11:30am, Arrive Nanaimo 2:25pm

Lv Nanaimo 12:pm Ar Vancouver 2:55pm

Lv Nanaimo 4:30pm, Arr Vancouver 7:25 pm

And you're Not kidding its a CLEAR VIOLATION of Greyhound's Transportation Licence, I believe the pickup and drop offs is where the Violation started, Cause If I dont remember correctly it stated that It MUST run 6 buses daily in each direction that Board the Ferry! Anyways Im sure it wont take long for the Passenger Transportation Board of BC to Take some action...And Im sure that they will. Horseshoe Bay shouldn't be much of an issue as they can just go right into Horseshoe Bay village and drop off but Departure Bay on the other hand will.

Greyhound got themselves into this mess to begin with by not wanting to run buses on all 6 sailings in each direction. How hard would it be for them to buy like mini buses that hold like up to 24 passengers and use them for the run.

I guess Pacific Coach Lines will see an increase in business on the Vancouver to Victoria run as will Greyhound on their runs between Nanaimo and Victoria cause everyone will just go through Victoria.

[airwolf]

And you're Not kidding its a CLEAR VIOLATION of Greyhound's Transportation Licence, I believe the pickup and drop offs is where the Violation started, Cause If I dont remember correctly it stated that It MUST run 6 buses daily in each direction that Board the Ferry! Anyways Im sure it wont take long for the Passenger Transportation Board of BC to Take some action...And Im sure that they will. Horseshoe Bay shouldn't be much of an issue as they can just go right into Horseshoe Bay village and drop off but Departure Bay on the other hand will.

When I contacted the Passenger Transportation Board about what I believed was a violation of Greyhound's conditions of licence, I was informed that the pick & drop service was actually within their conditions. Nowhere in their conditions of licence does it say that the bus must board the ferry. The violation occured as soon as they cancelled the picks and drops.

[roeco]

When I contacted the Passenger Transportation Board about what I believed was a violation of Greyhound's conditions of licence, I was informed that the pick & drop service was actually within their conditions. Nowhere in their conditions of licence does it say that the bus must board the ferry. The violation occured as soon as they cancelled the picks and drops.

ohh..sorry i must have mis-read. However Now they are in serious violation, It's gonna be interesting what the PTB has to say, Im very sure someone will bring it to their attention. And I'm wondering if Greyhound does not correct their issue if the PTB can pull their licence?? And if someone else can pick it up?

I dont think their would be any shortage of takers for the Vancouver-Nanaimo service, It can be highly profitable for a company with smaller buses and good customer service. However if Greyhound lost their licence for this run, their buses would be virtually stranded on the Island, unless they used their Nanaimo to Vancouver licence via the Duke Point Ferry. They could just run a couple schedules a day and that would get their buses back and forth.

[323 Surrey Ctrl Stn]

However if Greyhound lost their licence for this run, their buses would be virtually stranded on the Island, unless they used their Nanaimo to Vancouver licence via the Duke Point Ferry. They could just run a couple schedules a day and that would get their buses back and forth.

Can't Greyhound buses simply run empty without a license? It's only when you carry passengers when you need a license, corret?

Chris Cassidy

[roeco]

Can't Greyhound buses simply run empty without a license? It's only when you carry passengers when you need a license, corret?

Chris Cassidy

Yes they can run empty without a license, but then that would mean Deadheading back and forth, where is if they had a couple scheduled runs they would at least make some revenue! Thats why right now at least they can rotate buses on and off the Island to use elsewhere or go in for maintenance in Vancouver or repairs.

[roeco]

I have just read that Greyhound Canada has Now applied to reduce it's frequency from 6 trips per day in each direction to 2 trips per day in each direction. And they have on their application to the PTB that the public has access to BC Transit on both sides of the water to get to the ferries, plus it claims its loosing money. However 4 of the 6 runs are doing ok, Only the 5:30am out of Vancouver and the 9:30 am out of Vancouver plus the 8am out of Nanaimo and 830 pm from Nanaimo are doing the worst. I can't see the PTB allowing this Drastic change as it would not be in the best interest of the public, alot of people use the service especially weekends and holidays, People take the bus on the ferry for the convenience, If Greyhound doesnt want to run this corridor give up their licence to someone who does want to run it with smaller vehicles too. A 24 passenger mini bus that can hold luggage would be quite sufficent for this run.

I can see the PTB letting them do 4 a day each way but not 6. I wonder if PCL has the same operating costs?? hmm..I think their costs are out of the water.

[airwolf]

I wonder if PCL has the same operating costs?? hmm..I think their costs are out of the water.

Operating costs are the reason why PCL discontinued their YVR-Nanaimo service as well as the service they were running on the even hour sailings between Tsawwassen and Swartz Bay. Apparently they wanted to change to a pick and drop service but decided against it after BC Ferries made the same threats to them that they made to Greyhound Canada. As you are all now aware, they have acted on the threats against Greyhound.