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Thanks for the explanation. Hope to see other agencies deploy the technology with Orion out of the picture.

IIRC, Hybridrive is available on New Flyer, Gillig and probably Nova and NABI as well. TriMet and Metro Transit are currently testing the most advanced versions yet.

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As far as most of the posts here indicate, series hybrids save the most fuel in stop-and-go service while parallel hybrids do better saving fuel at higher speeds.

It is recommended to use parallel hybrids on stop and go routes as well. The electric motors are most utilized at low speeds when the bus first takes off. But I am not familiar with the BAE set up, guess both perform poorly during high speeds. Just to show how two manufacturers market their Hybrid buses.

Here is an old shot of a NovaBus Allison Hybrid...

7390499570_44b5da317c_s.jpg

And being an Orion thread, a bad shot of an Hybrid Orion Demo..

7390492158_7327279a8d_s.jpgForgot what it said on the side. Something 2010.

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There seems to be thing ongoing stigma of "hybrids being bad at high speed".

Okay, maybe stigma isn't the right word in this situation, but it does get the point across well.

In any case - Why then, are they so prevalent in railroad service, that in some cases are expected to operate at much higher speeds than will ever been seen on a road?

Dan

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There seems to be thing ongoing stigma of "hybrids being bad at high speed".

Okay, maybe stigma isn't the right word in this situation, but it does get the point across well.

In any case - Why then, are they so prevalent in railroad service, that in some cases are expected to operate at much higher speeds than will ever been seen on a road?

Dan

I think that 'stigma' applies to parallel hybrids, and locomotives use the series hybrid system?
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I think that 'stigma' applies to parallel hybrids, and locomotives use the series hybrid system?

Locomotives aren't hybrids for one....there is no ability to store power generated from braking.

But from what I have read here and on other enthusiast forums, it seems that all hybrid buses, regardless of their manufacture or configuration, have this stigma attached to them.

Dan

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It basically comes down to without the regular braking of the bus to assist in charging, the downsized engine does not have the power to sustain voltage all by itself indefinitely. Even an engine not performing at its best will cause this in city traffic.

Think of the batteries like a bank account. Engine makes deposits, traction motor can make deposits or withdrawals. In high speed running, the withdrawal rate of the motors marginally exceeds the ability of the engine to deposit. It could take several hours, but the overall balance of the battery will drop steadily.

Eventually, the batteries become depleted, voltage drops, and amperage goes up.

Then things start to cook.

Keep in mind that a 40 foot bus has a much lower power to weight ratio than the automobile versions.

If the engine was the same rating as its non hybrid counterparts, then 1:1 generation/consumption becomes feasible.

Until then, a hybrid will never be suited to high speed use.

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Auction of all the Orion equipment...

Due to plant closing, Daimler Buses North America – Oriskany, NY

4000 Lots of Bus Manufacturing & Assembly Equipment

TREMENDOUS OFFERING OF HIGHEST QUALITY ASSETS - 2 Days, OVER 4,000 lots

PARTIAL LISTING ONLY - PLEASE SEE CATALOG FOR COMPLETE LISTING

• GREENFIELD NGV Refueling System

• (3) DeVilbiss Large Capacity Drive-Thru Paint and Finishing Booths + Paint Kitchen, Pumps, Mixers, etc.

• (14) GORBEL, SPANCO, P&H free Standing Crane Systems, Monorails and Gantry Cranes

• (16) GORBEL Fall Arrest Systems

• (2) QUINCY 50 hp Rotary Screw Air Compressors & (2) Dryers

• 2010 QUINCY 30 hp Rotary Screw Air Compressor

• MOHAWK 35,000 lb. Large Vehicle Lift

• (15) MOHAWK Metro Vehicle LIFTING Jacks (sets of 4)

• (2) TRUCK SYSTEM microline5000 Wheel Alignment Systems

• MUSTANG Dynanometer

• BA AUTOTEKNIK Breaktest System

• NEWAGE Indentron Digital Hardness Tester

• CLECO Automatic Torque Wrench System

• (2) PIRANHA Ironworkers, Cold Saws, Brakes, Shears, Angle Rolls, Milling Machines, Bandsaws, Shop Presses, Drill Presses

• 2002 GMC 6500 Stake Truck (low mileage)

• 1998 FREIGHTLINER FL60 Stake Truck (low mileage)

• 2000 JCB 532 7000 lb. Diesel Telehandler

• 2006 LINDE H60D 6,000 lb. Diesel Outside/Inside Forklift

• BOBCAT S220 Skidsteer Loader

• (3) PRO-TECH Snow Blades + Pick-Up Snow Plow w/ Harness, Salt Spreader

• (2) 2009 RICO HLP-40 4,000 lb. Electric Walky-Type Scissor Lifts

• GENIE Snorkel Boom

• (2) JLG Scissor Lifts

• Forklifts, Reach Trucks, Order Pickers, Tow Truck Floor Sweepers, Floors Scrubbers, Golf Carts, Pallet Jacks, Hand Truck

• ALSO; (2) ShelterLogic Truss Frame Storage Buildings, RAM-JET Hydraulic Garbage Compactor, 10,000 gal. DIESEL Fuel Tank

• Top Of The Line Executive Office Suites, Boardroom Suites, Training Centers, Modular Office Suites, Computers, Printers, etc.

Location of assets: Oriskany, New York

http://www.go-dove.c...1995F8461278H3V

In the picture of the Dodge Sprinter van, there is a New York Orion VII hybrid in the background... 4417?

Screen Shot 2013-02-20 at 7.59.23 PM.png

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There had been speculation here about the Orion parts business. Looks like New Flyer is taking over that business.

http://newflyer.com/...on_from_daimler

Under the terms of the transaction with DBNA, New Flyer has:

• acquired DBNA’s Orion aftermarket parts inventory, accounts receivable and assumed certain obligations under its parts contracts with transit customers,

• acquired an exclusive license to use DBNA’s proprietary part designs for Orion buses in connection with New Flyer’s aftermarket parts business, and

• entered into an arrangement under which New Flyer will be the exclusive supplier of parts required by DBNA for customer warranty support, under Orion bus purchase contracts and pre-closing parts contracts.

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There had been speculation here about the Orion parts business. Looks like New Flyer is taking over that business.

http://newflyer.com/...on_from_daimler

Under the terms of the transaction with DBNA, New Flyer has:

• acquired DBNA’s Orion aftermarket parts inventory, accounts receivable and assumed certain obligations under its parts contracts with transit customers,

• acquired an exclusive license to use DBNA’s proprietary part designs for Orion buses in connection with New Flyer’s aftermarket parts business, and

• entered into an arrangement under which New Flyer will be the exclusive supplier of parts required by DBNA for customer warranty support, under Orion bus purchase contracts and pre-closing parts contracts.

I smell down the road Daimler buying a stake in New Flyer.

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The sale does not appear to include the designs for the buses themselves, only the parts to repair them.

Exactly.

I think it was RailBus fan who said that the parts business is a good money-maker.

Making Orion buses, unfortunately, was not.

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New Flyer acquires Orion aftermarket parts business

The purchase was funded by using proceeds from the recently announced equity investment by Marcopolo S.A., one of the world's leading global bus manufacturers, which made the first tranche of its investment in New Flyer, totaling approximately $51 million, in February. Read More »

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So in theory, and just to say it out loud, TTCs warranty is with NFI and no longer Daimler? Is Daimler completely out of the picture when it comes to all their warranty work. Because even though NFI is taking up responsibilty for Warranty work, how will they get money, especially when some warranty work is done for free (?). I understand the after market stuff, but how they will handle the warranty is what I don't understand. Uhnless daimler gives NFI money to do warranty work? Or is probably under the agreement, but they will never revel all that to the public.

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So in theory, and just to say it out loud, TTCs warranty is with NFI and no longer Daimler? Is Daimler completely out of the picture when it comes to all their warranty work. Because even though NFI is taking up responsibilty for Warranty work, how will they get money, especially when some warranty work is done for free (?). I understand the after market stuff, but how they will handle the warranty is what I don't understand. Uhnless daimler gives NFI money to do warranty work? Or is probably under the agreement, but they will never revel all that to the public.

The press release states that NFI is assuming the parts business, and that any parts that are the result of a warranty claim will be manufactured by New Flyer; basically, New Flyer is acting as a contractor to Daimler. There is nothing in that release that states NFI is taking over the warranty claims of Daimler.

Outstanding warranties would probably be viewed as a liability on Daimler's books (a future cost to the company), so New Flyer would not be paying Daimler money to assume their liabilities.

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  • 3 weeks later...

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