Motor Coach Industries general discussion

[Chinese Daniel]

http://www.mcicoach.com/media-center/2017-06-22-2018-J4500.htm

http://www.mcicoach.com/luxury-coaches/passengerJ4500.htm

2018 MCI J4500 look like so nice, i can't wait i can get a ride in those bus, Sky window roof.

http://www.mcicoach.com/media-center/2017-06-22-2018-J4500.htm

http://www.mcicoach.com/luxury-coaches/passengerJ4500.htm

2018 MCI J4500 look like so nice, i can't wait i can get a ride in those bus, Sky window roof.

[A. Wong]

Definitely looks like some nice improvements! http://www.j4500-enlightened.com/

Optional rear window now available too.

[northwesterner]

14 minutes ago, A. Wong said:

Definitely looks like some nice improvements! http://www.j4500-enlightened.com/

Optional rear window now available too.

Twenty years to shave a little off the top of the "great wall of China" dashboard and add a few more A/C vents.

 

I guess it'll be 20 more to get some decent mirrors and do something about the angled bar at the top of the ticket window...

[Transit geek]

That 12-inch full-color HD TFT instrument panel alone is already giving me that "I want it" feeling. Completely ditches analog instruments, just like what in a high-end BMW or Tesla these days. Let's see how long it takes before we see that in the D-series.

[Chinese Daniel]

they are looking is way better than provost.

[A. Wong]

A new commuter coach coming! Appears to have the design cues of that camouflaged unit.

http://www.mcicoach.com/media-center/2017-09-22-commuter.htm

[Chinese Daniel]

19 minutes ago, A. Wong said:

A new commuter coach coming! Appears to have the design cues of that camouflaged unit.

http://www.mcicoach.com/media-center/2017-09-22-commuter.htm

That look very cool, i can't wait they show up.

[TheAverageJoe]

On 9/27/2017 at 7:30 PM, A. Wong said:

A new commuter coach coming! Appears to have the design cues of that camouflaged unit.

http://www.mcicoach.com/media-center/2017-09-22-commuter.htm

MCI D45 CRT LE

 

Newly reimagined, the MCI D45 CRT LE is built for Commuter Rapid Transit (CRT) delivering all the advantages of our proven D4500, combined with a breakthrough Low Entry vestibule design for unprecedented accessibility.

• Second door with automatic ramp. 32” clear-width, mid-coach with ADA compliant 6:1 sloped ramp rated to 1,000 lbs.
• Low-Entry first-of-its-kind vestibule area. Patent-pending design seats five passengers, or two with mobility devices, plus one attendant; and developed in consultation with representatives from the accessibility community.
• Seats 54 passengers (52 with two mobility devices). High-capacity seating offers a lower cost per seat advantage versus other transit vehicles. Provides passengers with unrivaled comfort and personal space.
• Boarding times match low floor transit. Two points of ingress and egress, significantly improve dwell times versus a traditional commuter coach.
• Captivating design. Eye-appealing style with the rugged and reliable operational qualities for which MCI is known.
• Your choice including all-electric. Available in clean-diesel, hybrid-electric and CNG engine configurations, with a battery-electric version planned for production in early 2020.
• ADA and Buy America compliant. Rigorously tested at Altoona and proudly assembled in America, the new MCI D45 CRT LE proves itself as a worthy successor to the MCI D4500.

 

https://apta.newflyer.com/buses/mci-45-lightspeed/

[Transit geek]

On 10/6/2017 at 4:54 PM, TheAverageJoe said:

MCI D45 CRT LE

 

Newly reimagined, the MCI D45 CRT LE is built for Commuter Rapid Transit (CRT) delivering all the advantages of our proven D4500, combined with a breakthrough Low Entry vestibule design for unprecedented accessibility.

• Second door with automatic ramp. 32” clear-width, mid-coach with ADA compliant 6:1 sloped ramp rated to 1,000 lbs.
• Low-Entry first-of-its-kind vestibule area. Patent-pending design seats five passengers, or two with mobility devices, plus one attendant; and developed in consultation with representatives from the accessibility community.
• Seats 54 passengers (52 with two mobility devices). High-capacity seating offers a lower cost per seat advantage versus other transit vehicles. Provides passengers with unrivaled comfort and personal space.
• Boarding times match low floor transit. Two points of ingress and egress, significantly improve dwell times versus a traditional commuter coach.
• Captivating design. Eye-appealing style with the rugged and reliable operational qualities for which MCI is known.
• Your choice including all-electric. Available in clean-diesel, hybrid-electric and CNG engine configurations, with a battery-electric version planned for production in early 2020.
• ADA and Buy America compliant. Rigorously tested at Altoona and proudly assembled in America, the new MCI D45 CRT LE proves itself as a worthy successor to the MCI D4500.

 

https://apta.newflyer.com/buses/mci-45-lightspeed/

The bold-looking design definitely complements the new J4500!

I hope that they bring the look to the conventional D4500 soon.

[XN40]

I believe MCI will have a version of this without the LF vestibule by 2019. 

[HoustonMETROFan]

On page 26 of the brochure, you'll be able to see what all variants will be available and when those will start production.

For example, a battery-electric variant of this exact model - called the D45 CRTe LE - will start production in the year 2020.

[Antarctica]

https://www.newflyer.com/2018/01/mci-cease-distributing-daimlers-setra-coaches/

Quote

MCI To Cease Distributing Daimler’s Setra Coaches

January 4, 2018 | New Flyer

DES PLAINES, ILLINOIS, JANUARY 4, 2018 – (TSX: NFI) Motor Coach Industries, Inc. (“MCI”), the U.S. subsidiary of New Flyer Industries Inc. (“NFI Group”), the largest transit bus and motor coach manufacturer and parts distributor in North America, announced today that EvoBus GmBH (“Daimler”) has terminated the distribution rights agreement (“DRA”) for German built Setra motor coaches in the United States and Canada effective June 29, 2018.

Under previous private equity ownership, MCI entered into the DRA as part of a transaction that resulted in Daimler owning 10% of the equity of MCI in 2012. When New Flyer acquired 100% of the equity of MCI in December 2015, the DRA remained in place. The models covered by the agreement were the Setra S 407 and S 417 motor coaches, introduced by Daimler in North America in 2003. Since 2012, MCI has sold only 282 new Setra coaches.

Daimler advised MCI their decision was based on its belief that MCI’s own competing motor coach models did not allow for sufficient attention to the Setra brand in Canada and the US. The decision comes as MCI is expanding its own motor coach lineup and service network. Among recent moves, MCI has redesigned its best-selling J4500 model, has recently introduced a new 35-foot coach, its fully accessible D45 CRT LE commuter coach, and has announced plans to introduce a battery-electric motor coach by 2020.

Sales of new Setra coaches will transfer to Daimler’s new North American distributor immediately, while parts sales, service and warranty support for Setra coaches in service will remain with MCI and then transfer mid-2018. Under the terms of the DRA and as part of the transition, Daimler will re-purchase all new Setra coaches and service parts inventory on hand at MCI.

“We appreciated our relationship with Daimler, and will fully support the DRA transition for our mutual customers. Most importantly, we will continue to focus on building our industry leading MCI coach brand, along with offering service and parts support for operators throughout North America,” said Patrick Scully, MCI Executive Vice President Sales and Marketing.

About NFI Group

NFI Group and its subsidiaries comprise the largest bus and motor coach manufacturer and parts distributor in North America, with 32 fabrication, manufacturing, distribution, and service centers located across Canada and the United States and employing nearly 6,000 team members.

NFI Group provides a comprehensive suite of mass transportation solutions under several brands: New Flyer (heavy-duty transit buses), ARBOC (low-floor cutaway and medium-duty buses), MCI (motor coaches), and NFI Parts (bus and coach parts, support, and service). NFI Group’s vehicles incorporate the widest range of drive systems available, ranging from clean diesel, natural gas, diesel-electric hybrid, trolley-electric, battery-electric and fuel cell.

• New Flyer is North America's heavy-duty transit bus leader and offers the most advanced product line under the Xcelsior and Xcelsior CHARGE brands. New Flyer actively supports over 44,000 heavy-duty transit buses (New Flyer, NABI, and Orion) currently in service, of which 6,400 are powered by electric and battery propulsion.
• ARBOC is North America’s low-floor, body-on-chassis (“cutaway”) bus leader serving transit, paratransit, and shuttle applications. With more than 2,500 buses in service, ARBOC leads the low-floor cutaway bus market providing unsurpassed passenger accessibility and comfort over traditional high-floor cutaway vehicles. ARBOC also offers a medium-duty bus for transit and shuttle applications.
• Motor Coach Industries is North America’s motor coach leader, offering the J-Series, the industry’s best-selling intercity coach for 11 consecutive years, and the D-Series, the industry’s best-selling motor coach line in North American history. MCI actively supports over 28,000 coaches currently in service.
• NFI Parts is North America's most comprehensive parts organization, providing replacement parts, technical publications, training, service, and support for NFI Group’s bus and motor coach product lines.

Further information is available at www.newflyer.com, www.arbocsv.com, and www.mcicoach.com. The common shares of NFI Group are traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange under the symbol NFI.

Forward-Looking Statements

This press release may contain forward-looking statements relating to expected future events and financial and operating results of NFI Group that involve risks and uncertainties. Although the forward-looking statements contained in this press release are based upon what management believes to be reasonable assumptions, investors cannot be assured that actual results will be consistent with these forward-looking statements, and the differences may be material. Actual results may differ materially from management expectations as projected in such forward-looking statements for a variety of reasons, including those risks and uncertainties discussed in the materials filed with the Canadian securities regulatory authorities and available on SEDAR at www.sedar.com.  Due to the potential impact of these factors, NFI Group disclaims any intention or obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, unless required by applicable law.

For further information, please contact:

Patricia Plodzeen, MCI Public Relations,                         Jon Koffman, New Flyer Investor Relations
Tel: 847-283-0883                                                                 Tel: 320-316-4964
E-mail: pat.plodzeen@mcicoach.com                             E-mail: investor@newflyer.com

 

[Shaun]

I'm not sure if Serra would be successful in North America, even with a successful marketing campaign. Volvo is aggressively staring to penetrate the market also with their own brand and Prevost. 

[Doppelkupplung]

11 hours ago, Shaun said:

I'm not sure if Serra would be successful in North America, even with a successful marketing campaign. Volvo is aggressively staring to penetrate the market also with their own brand and Prevost. 

I think Setra would have been successful if they marketed and introduced more vehicles here. However, all those decisions would have had to have been coordinated with Daimler to bring them over here, and to NF/MCI to distribute them. For one, they certainly could have competed with VanHool with their S431DT (or even the new 531DT for that matter) for Megabus purchases, especially since MCI doesn't offer a double deck coach. Their new TopClass 500 coaches have been a hit throughout Europe, but I suppose MCIs fear of competition in the market stopped anything like that happening here, especially with VanHool, Volvo, and Prevost starting to make competition serious with new entries. 

Its too bad, because Setra's product offering over here never really changed. Was always the same coach with few modifications. Would have loved to see them expand here, but I guess MCI thought otherwise. 

[smallspy]

7 minutes ago, MiWay0310 said:

Its too bad, because Setra's product offering over here never really changed. Was always the same coach with few modifications.

You realize that having a product that's largely static in its development is exactly what most properties look for, right?

 

Dan

[Doppelkupplung]

36 minutes ago, smallspy said:

You realize that having a product that's largely static in its development is exactly what most properties look for, right?

 

Dan

Oh I agree with you, but I should have worded that statement better.

I know I said that the product offering never changed, but what I also meant was they never moved forward in terms of design, or in other words, they didn't improve the appeal of the coach to any possible clients. Let's be honest here, because since 2003, when the S417 was introduced here, designwise, it hasn't changed much (in fact, at all). Even design aside, were there any new developments for it since 2003, save the introduction of a new engine, 7 years later, and perhaps better frontal collision protection program? I know that too much development may deter some clients, but we can't be stuck in a rut from 2003. There needs to be some development, like better aero, better cooling, less weight etc. which is what the latest S5xx entries from Setra offer. And sure, newer Setras here in NA may be marginally more efficient than older ones, but the overall appeal of the coach hasn't changed, compared to say, a newer VanHool, Prevost or Volvo. And don't get me wrong, I completely understand that the aesthetic design isn't as important as the actual product development, but look elsewhere in the world, and you'll see how popular their newest release has been, not only due to new engines, technology, efficiency, pax comfort etc, but also because its a fresh model.

Of course, the market for coaches in Europe is much more competitive, and there are many many many more coach operators competing there compared to over here, in North America. 

 

[smallspy]

25 minutes ago, MiWay0310 said:

Oh I agree with you, but I should have worded that statement better.

I know I said that the product offering never changed, but what I also meant was they never moved forward in terms of design, or in other words, they didn't improve the appeal of the coach to any possible clients. Let's be honest here, because since 2003, when the S417 was introduced here, designwise, it hasn't changed much (in fact, at all). Even design aside, were there any new developments for it since 2003, save the introduction of a new engine, 7 years later, and perhaps better frontal collision protection program? I know that too much development may deter some clients, but we can't be stuck in a rut from 2003. There needs to be some development, like better aero, better cooling, less weight etc. which is what the latest S5xx entries from Setra offer. And sure, newer Setras here in NA may be marginally more efficient than older ones, but the overall appeal of the coach hasn't changed, compared to say, a newer VanHool, Prevost or Volvo. And don't get me wrong, I completely understand that the aesthetic design isn't as important as the actual product development, but look elsewhere in the world, and you'll see how popular their newest release has been, not only due to new engines, technology, efficiency, pax comfort etc, but also because its a fresh model.

Of course, the market for coaches in Europe is much more competitive, and there are many many many more coach operators competing there compared to over here, in North America.

You've totally missed the point of the comment.

 

Barring any marketing wank, any device whereby the design stays static is more likely to get repeat sales. Buyers won't have to go through new training in order to operate and maintain them.

 

In the case of something like highway coaches, unless there is one glaring reason why they shouldn't (say, for instance, price) they will try and stick with one brand/type for that reason. Having a wholesale redesign or the introduction of a replacement model can actually be detrimental to sales. People will buy what they know and like.

 

Dan

[Doppelkupplung]

47 minutes ago, smallspy said:

You've totally missed the point of the comment.

 

Barring any marketing wank, any device whereby the design stays static is more likely to get repeat sales. Buyers won't have to go through new training in order to operate and maintain them.

 

In the case of something like highway coaches, unless there is one glaring reason why they shouldn't (say, for instance, price) they will try and stick with one brand/type for that reason. Having a wholesale redesign or the introduction of a replacement model can actually be detrimental to sales. People will buy what they know and like.

 

Dan

Yeah that makes more sense, thanks. I suppose I'm mixing in the car industry a bit too much here...

[Chinese Daniel]

1 hour ago, MiWay0310 said:

Yeah that makes more sense, thanks. I suppose I'm mixing in the car industry a bit too much here...

What you think?

I think Now Prevost and MCI was way better than Setra caoch.

MCI J4500 almost was the best bus in north america.

[smallspy]

3 hours ago, Chinese Daniel said:

MCI J4500 almost was the best bus in north america.

And on what do you base that on? Your countless hours behind the wheel of one? All of the time you've spend underneath them?

 

I know a number of mechanics that wouldn't touch an MCI with a 10 foot pole, and much prefer other brands to them.

 

Dan

[Doppelkupplung]

51 minutes ago, smallspy said:

And on what do you base that on? Your countless hours behind the wheel of one? All of the time you've spend underneath them?

 

I know a number of mechanics that wouldn't touch an MCI with a 10 foot pole, and much prefer other brands to them.

 

Dan

Could you list some of the major reasons why?

Is what you said exclusively directed at the J series, or do you include the D series as well?

[translink fan]

2 hours ago, smallspy said:

And on what do you base that on? Your countless hours behind the wheel of one? All of the time you've spend underneath them?

 

I know a number of mechanics that wouldn't touch an MCI with a 10 foot pole, and much prefer other brands to them.

 

Dan

I find the engine compartment in the new Js are really busy. Kinda a wall of "where the F is this and that." Prevost cleaned it up a lot too but they still moved the coolant fill and stuff higher above. The new axles are kinda complicated too. I think they're ZF axles? I looked at one up on a hoist and saw more moving parts and made it a bit harder to get to the components in the undercarriage.

[Bus_Medic]

I can only speak up to 2004, but I rather liked the MC-9 and incarnations of the 102 and found them pretty straightforward and reliable.

having both PMCL and Can-ar in my résumé, the bigger share of my knowledge base is biased to MCI.

one gripe was more of the electrical components, namely relays, were proprietary to MCI and could only be sourced through them, as opposed to Prevost who has used run o’ the mill Bosch relays that were available everywhere.

MCI’s tag steering mechanisms could be an expensive headache, prevost’s tag lift solution using regular air brake components was elegant in it’s simplicity.

DD3 brake chambers, common as they were back in the 70s,80s and ‘90s were petty expensive (@$500 without a core to return back in 2000) and required periodic greasing, as opposed to 30/30 spring brake chambers that trucks used, and Prévost adopted sooner. MCI continued with the DD3 later because of their compact size On the drive axle, were room (for them) was tight. They switched to 30/30s in the early 2000s.

the E model was the maligned orphan, with next to no parts commonality with the DL3. They were just awkwardly designed. The Lucas disc brakes on all axles were a pet peeve of mine. The J came soon after, basically took the styling and interior cues of an E model and married them to DL3 underpinnings.

the G model? Only saw one up close once, but I think the Wikipedia article is accurate.

hmm... in hindsight, maybe my review of MCI products isn’t so glowing after all.

....the H5-60 was um....BIG.  Shared some front end ideas with twin steering concrete trucks....only way to extract the engine should one need to was to lift the bus around it....thankfully everything short of line boring the block, including changing the crank, pistons, heads and cylinder liners could be done in situ. Lots of specialized stuff too like the hydraulic rad drives and tiller steering for the trailer. Good thing I only ever worked on the one....the independent owner who bought it went bankrupt before the second year of owning it.  Shocking.

[Shaun]

There where a lot of comments on this board with the lack of reliability with the Setra units, and the companies that took them on mostly had them sitting around more than they where on the road. 

I doubt that going out in their own will improve sales but perhaps the European transit busses they have might have a place in the north American market? 

[Bus_Medic]

Cause people were lining up to purchase the citaro after demoing it, right?