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Thanks for posting the link. I wonder why MTA is proposing to cut back service on the 534 related to phase 2 of the Expo Line in June 2014, when Expo Phase 2 won't be operating until late 2015 at the earliest (more likely sometime in 2016).

It sounds bs that Metro would reduce service on express line 534, in anticipation of phase 2 of the Expo line, which be open until late 2K15 to early 2K16, at the earliest. Also, it seems that the agency is planning to implement a so-called 'Valley U' corridor that would link Metro Rapid lines 741 and 761 as one unique line that would improve rapid, frequent, and enhancement service to both Valley corridors. With that said, Metro Local line 233 could be replaced by line 234 (by 1 #) as an owl line service to Westwood. Same concept could also occur on Metro Rapid line 761, that would by replaced by 734 going to Westwood.

Express line 588(X) is mentioned as potential line to link the Valley to the Westside of L.A.

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I'm not too keen on the Line 577 changes, first they cut back service in Long Beach, then a permanent side street detour away from the 10 and a good portion of the 605, and now they want to make permanent more travel time. If they do it on select trips, then I would have no problem, but for every trip in addition to all this, come on man.

The 534 change makes a lot of sense, although I think it doesn't go far enough. I'm surprised they're even keeping the express portion considering the existing service overlap with Rapid 20 between Culver City Station and Santa Monica; and that ridership will drop dramatically once Expo Phase 2 comes in. I think Line 534 service would make more sense if the original express portion were restored or the express portion eliminated entirely with improved connections to Washington/Fairfax. Since the last changes to the 534, the vast majority of customers on the express portion exit at Venice/Robertson (Culver City station) so there isn't much use for the Washington/Fairfax <--> Culver City portion of the line.

Edited by George L.

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Looks like some serious proposed line modifications are being proposed for the June '14 schedule. http://www.metro.net...ro-bus-service/

No XN40 buses have started service, until early January at the earliest. It will depend how they perform when they hit L.A. streets soon, since the Nabi 45c buses are dominating the streets of L.A. Those powerful tanks can't be touched.

Indeed, I'm loving the 45Cs, they are absolutely superb.

I'm not too keen on the Line 577 changes, first they cut back service in Long Beach, then a permanent side street detour away from the 10 and a good portion of the 605, and now they want to make permanent more travel time. If they do it on select trips, then I would have no problem, but for every trip in addition to all this, come on man.

The 534 change makes a lot of sense, although I think it doesn't go far enough. I'm surprised they're even keeping the express portion considering the existing service overlap with Rapid 20 between Culver City Station and Santa Monica; and that ridership will drop dramatically once Expo Phase 2 comes in. I think Line 534 service would make more sense if the original express portion were restored or the express portion eliminated entirely with improved connections to Washington/Fairfax. Since the last changes to the 534, the vast majority of customers on the express portion exit at Venice/Robertson (Culver City station) so there isn't much use for the Washington/Fairfax <--> Culver City portion of the line.

Why the Washington/fairfax hub still exists is beyond me. Ridership for both bus and the Expo Line would increase if there was a single hub at Culver City. Instead you either change buses or wait under a horrible looking concrete freeway overpass. The area around the station would serve allot more people than being a parking lot. IMO, they could have easily made a parking garage while turning the area directly adjacent to the station(The strip of parking spots next to station) into a transit center.

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The 534 change makes a lot of sense, although I think it doesn't go far enough. I'm surprised they're even keeping the express portion considering the existing service overlap with Rapid 20 between Culver City Station and Santa Monica; and that ridership will drop dramatically once Expo Phase 2 comes in. I think Line 534 service would make more sense if the original express portion were restored or the express portion eliminated entirely with improved connections to Washington/Fairfax. Since the last changes to the 534, the vast majority of customers on the express portion exit at Venice/Robertson (Culver City station) so there isn't much use for the Washington/Fairfax <--> Culver City portion of the line.

Rapid 20 is not a good replacement for 534 because it only runs in one (wrong) direction during peak hours. Rapid 20 was implemented so BBB can position empty buses at Culver City Station for north bound R12 and #12 in the morning, and send empty south bound R12 and #12 buses back to Santa Monica in the evening. They figured why run empty buses on I-10 when they can pick up some passengers... It's pretty useless as express bus service goes.

When phase 2 starts, 534 should be replaced as 134 and just run between Malibu and Downtown Santa Monica Station @ 4th and Colorado.

Indeed, I'm loving the 45Cs, they are absolutely superb.

Why the Washington/fairfax hub still exists is beyond me. Ridership for both bus and the Expo Line would increase if there was a single hub at Culver City. Instead you either change buses or wait under a horrible looking concrete freeway overpass. The area around the station would serve allot more people than being a parking lot. IMO, they could have easily made a parking garage while turning the area directly adjacent to the station(The strip of parking spots next to station) into a transit center.

The main purpose of Washington/Fairfax is for bus layover. The problem with relocating all bus service to Culver City station is you need to add a long detour to line like 35, 37, 38, 217 or 705. Those lines are better off connecting to other Expo stations (like La Cienega). And relocating all these lines to Culver City Station will create another problem with too much bus traffic because Culver City Station did not have a bus bay for layovers. Lines like 780 would be difficult to operate if there is no layover at the end for accurate departure time.

In a perfect world, 35/37/38 (east-west service on Washington/Adams/Jefferson) would be combined with CC #1 (Washington) or CC #6 (Culver) to offer thru-service on east-west corridors and you can eliminate the Washington/Fairfax forced transfer entirely but we say the same thing about BBB #7 and Metro 30 at Rimpau as well.

Politics always trump the needs of transit riders.

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Rapid 20 is not a good replacement for 534 because it only runs in one (wrong) direction during peak hours. Rapid 20 was implemented so BBB can position empty buses at Culver City Station for north bound R12 and #12 in the morning, and send empty south bound R12 and #12 buses back to Santa Monica in the evening. They figured why run empty buses on I-10 when they can pick up some passengers... It's pretty useless as express bus service goes.

When phase 2 starts, 534 should be replaced as 134 and just run between Malibu and Downtown Santa Monica Station @ 4th and Colorado.

In that case, MTA should just give the whole thing to Santa Monica. It could be their line 15.

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In that case, MTA should just give the whole thing to Santa Monica. It could be their line 15.

Logically, after Expo 2 opens, BBB would be the best agency to serve the PCH corridor but BBB has declined to take over the PCH bus service from Metro several times now because they don't have the resources to serve it properly, which means the City of Santa Monica will have to subsidize it.

It's somewhat unlikely that City of Santa Monica would pay for this service that impacts primarily Malibu. Unlike Line 12 (Westwood Blvd) or 14 (Bundy) which run entirely outside City of Santa Monica but have very high ridership to that feeds into/from other BBB lines (e.g. 1/2/3/5/7), there is not much upside for BBB to take over 534 (or 134 if freeway portion is chopped). PCH is not a critical part of BBB's network. Most of the BBB passengers are coming from/going to east of Santa Monica. Very few passengers transfer from 534 to BBB system and vice versa.

~~~~

Unrelated subject

Interesting video of the new rear doors in action on the Orange Line NABI BRT60: http://transittalk.p...&scrollTo=33791

 

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Thanks for posting the link. I wonder why MTA is proposing to cut back service on the 534 related to phase 2 of the Expo Line in June 2014, when Expo Phase 2 won't be operating until late 2015 at the earliest (more likely sometime in 2016).

Metro should refrain from doing line changes to express line 534, until phase 2 is extended to Downtown Santa Monica in early 2K16. Who knows if express line 534 will be changed as local line 134. Although, there's another express line 534, which is operated by LADOT Commuter Express that runs between DTLA and Century City via Olympic Bl. on weekday rush hours. It's the only 500 express line that serves DTLA.

A bit more room inside the bus! Very cool.

Very nice that they changed the rear doors on some of these overhaul nabi 60ft. artics.

Okay, these buses have been repowered to Cummins Westport ISL-G engines from Cummins L Gas + engines, but why do these overhaul artics sounds like they still have their old engines and not sound like the 9500s?

Logically, after Expo 2 opens, BBB would be the best agency to serve the PCH corridor but BBB has declined to take over the PCH bus service from Metro several times now because they don't have the resources to serve it properly, which means the City of Santa Monica will have to subsidize it.

It's somewhat unlikely that City of Santa Monica would pay for this service that impacts primarily Malibu. Unlike Line 12 (Westwood Blvd) or 14 (Bundy) which run entirely outside City of Santa Monica but have very high ridership to that feeds into/from other BBB lines (e.g. 1/2/3/5/7), there is not much upside for BBB to take over 534 (or 134 if freeway portion is chopped). PCH is not a critical part of BBB's network. Most of the BBB passengers are coming from/going to east of Santa Monica. Very few passengers transfer from 534 to BBB system and vice versa.

~~~~

Unrelated subject

Interesting video of the new rear doors in action on the Orange Line NABI BRT60: http://transittalk.p...&scrollTo=33791

 

Having for SM's BBB to operate on the portion of the I-10 Santa Monica freeway is costly, should another BBB line [15] half replaces express line 534 in the next bus line changes.

Indeed, I'm loving the 45Cs, they are absolutely superb.

Why the Washington/fairfax hub still exists is beyond me. Ridership for both bus and the Expo Line would increase if there was a single hub at Culver City. Instead you either change buses or wait under a horrible looking concrete freeway overpass. The area around the station would serve allot more people than being a parking lot. IMO, they could have easily made a parking garage while turning the area directly adjacent to the station(The strip of parking spots next to station) into a transit center.

Indeed, I'm loving the 45Cs, they are absolutely superb.

Why the Washington/fairfax hub still exists is beyond me. Ridership for both bus and the Expo Line would increase if there was a single hub at Culver City. Instead you either change buses or wait under a horrible looking concrete freeway overpass. The area around the station would serve allot more people than being a parking lot. IMO, they could have easily made a parking garage while turning the area directly adjacent to the station(The strip of parking spots next to station) into a transit center.

You got that right, the Nabi 45c buses (well mostly the 8400s, 8500s, and 8600s, in my opinion) are currently the superior tanks that are dominating the streets of L.A., along with it's nabi cousins (the artics and the lfws) that have been working their asses off despite the recent incidents they've been involved and some were taken out of service and went to storage. While the NFI c40hfs and c40lfs are looking forward to be being retired later this year and next year. Glad that the c40lfs are closed to meet it's final days since I can't stand those inferior buses that look squared with boring style and personality.

Since the superior nabi 45c buses are on top of the game, the nfi xn40 buses have yet to show their performances when they enter into revenue service very soon. They better have the same powertran as the nabi 45cs.

What's next for the proposed Metro Rapid lines?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Rapid#Proposed.2FFuture_Routes

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Having for SM's BBB to operate on the portion of the I-10 Santa Monica freeway is costly, should another BBB line [15] half replaces express line 534 in the next bus line changes.

Well, that's what we were talking about... BBB already operates Rapid 20 which duplicates 534 on I-10 but it is mostly to position the empty buses for the service on Line 12.

If Metro wants to hand over 534 to BBB (and if BBB wants to take it), it has to wait until Expo phase 2 opens so a local line on PCH can be added to avoid the pointless freeway running.

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For example, the line 4 has begun to use high capacity 60ft. artics again, division 5 and 18 have transferred a few more of the NFI C40 Hfs to division 7, to make way for more newer Nabi 45Cs buses (upper 8500s and 85)600s) to those divisions. P.S. the upcoming of the NFI XN40 series are already to make their debut early next month.

Line 4 actually still uses 40-foot buses.

You got that right, the Nabi 45c buses (well mostly the 8400s, 8500s, and 8600s, in my opinion) are currently the superior tanks that are dominating the streets of L.A., along with it's nabi cousins (the artics and the lfws) that have been working their asses off despite the recent incidents they've been involved and some were taken out of service and went to storage. While the NFI c40hfs and c40lfs are looking forward to be being retired later this year and next year. Glad that the c40lfs are closed to meet it's final days since I can't stand those inferior buses that look squared with boring style and personality.

Don't forget that the 2000 NABI 40-LFW (#7000-7214) are also slated to be replaced by the XN40's too.

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Digging into my stash of LA bus photos from February 2011, and here are some neat ones that caught my attention:

#4518, Tap Mobile Customer Centre:

4518.jpg

Veolia Training bus, 35ft Gillig Phantom:

Training_B.jpg

The same bus with a 31ft NABI before making the turn:

Training_A.jpg

NABI 60BRT on tow:

Tow.jpg

Enjoy! =)

Dave

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Line 4 actually still uses 40-foot buses.

Don't forget that the 2000 NABI 40-LFW (#7000-7214) are also slated to be replaced by the XN40's too.

Yup, line 4 started using Nabi 60ft. brt artics once again after being removed a few years ago, except on rapid line 704, which it got several artics that operate on that route and sometimes Nabi 45Cs, where there aren't enough artics around. I believe that div. 10 now operates line 4, with divisions 2 and 4.

Damn, I hate to see the 2000 Nabi-lfw (7000-7214) buses go, as their lifespan is almost up. Although a few of them have already been taken out of service due to accidents, engine problems, structural issues, and already reached over 500,000 milage that have plagued these units.

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Yup, line 4 started using Nabi 60ft. brt artics once again after being removed a few years ago, except on rapid line 704, which it got several artics that operate on that route and sometimes Nabi 45Cs, where there aren't enough artics around. I believe that div. 10 now operates line 4, with divisions 2 and 4.

Damn, I hate to see the 2000 Nabi-lfw (7000-7214) buses go, as their lifespan is almost up. Although a few of them have already been taken out of service due to accidents, engine problems, structural issues, and already reached over 500,000 milage that have plagued these units.

The 2001 Orion VI (#11001-11067) 2001 NABI 40-LFW #7300-7514 series as well are slated to be replaced by the XN40's, but I believe under the option order of 350 buses for FY16. So soon you can say bye to the 1999-2000 NFI C40HF (#5000-5222), 2001 New Flyer C40LF (#5300-5522) and 2000 NABI 40-LFW (#7000-7214) as they will be replaced by base order of 550 XN40's (2014-2015).

For example, the line 4 has begun to use high capacity 60ft. artics again, division 5 and 18 have transferred a few more of the NFI C40 Hfs to division 7, to make way for more newer Nabi 45Cs buses (upper 8500s and 85)600s) to those divisions. P.S. the upcoming of the NFI XN40 series are already to make their debut early next month.

Do you have numbers of the C40HF units from D5 and D18 at D7? I know 5116, 5202 are a few of the C40HF from D5 and D18 that came to D7 last year...

Now speaking of D5, and D18, I heard they will get the XN40's first, but not 100% sure yet.

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The 2001 Orion VI (#11001-11067) 2001 NABI 40-LFW #7300-7514 series as well are slated to be replaced by the XN40's, but I believe under the option order of 350 buses for FY16. So soon you can say bye to the 1999-2000 NFI C40HF (#5000-5222), 2001 New Flyer C40LF (#5300-5522) and 2000 NABI 40-LFW (#7000-7214) as they will be replaced by base order of 550 XN40's (2014-2015).

Do you have numbers of the C40HF units from D5 and D18 at D7? I know 5116, 5202 are a few of the C40HF from D5 and D18 that came to D7 last year...

Now speaking of D5, and D18, I heard they will get the XN40's first, but not 100% sure yet.

If you have a LosAngelBus app on your phone, then it will help you notify of which nfl c40hf (5000-5222) have been transferred from divisions 5 and 18 to division 7 several months ago. Don't forget that divisions 2 and 6 are going to be shut down due to the opening of division 13 near Union Station this summer. Although div. 2 may be opened for training buses and possibly turned into storage.

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ALSO: The 2K05-06 LACMTA Nabi 60ft. brt artic buses (9200-9399, 9400-9494) have been and/or are about to be repowered with Cummins Westport ISL-G engines from Cummins L Gas + engines, which is supposed to last this year.

Since they are being repowered with new engines, why do those artics sound like they still have their old engines? I thought they would sound like the 2K07-08 nabi brt artics (9500-9594) which would delivered with Cummins Westport ISL-G engines?

By the way, As of 12/15/13, Line 130 is operated by MV Transportation again so l the 11 Orion's (#11057-11067) I believe are back at MV Transportation.

No, those Orion buses are still operated by Southland Transit, since ST started operated line 130 a year and a half ago, thus the contractor got 10 Orions from MV Transportation.

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If you have a LosAngelBus app on your phone, then it will help you notify of which nfl c40hf (5000-5222) have been transferred from divisions 5 and 18 to division 7 several months ago. Don't forget that divisions 2 and 6 are going to be shut down due to the opening of division 13 near Union Station this summer. Although div. 2 may be opened for training buses and possibly turned into storage.

So what happened to the plans to relocate Division 6 to east of Culver City?

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By the way, As of 12/15/13, Line 130 is operated by MV Transportation again so l the 11 Orion's (#11057-11067) I believe are back at MV Transportation.

No, those Orion buses are still operated by Southland Transit, since ST started operated line 130 a year and a half ago, thus the contractor got 10 Orions from MV Transportation.

User "Orion V 1400" is correct. The 130 line IS back to MV Transportation meaning that the 10 Orions @ Southland have been transferred back to MV.

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So what happened to the plans to relocate Division 6 to east of Culver City?

No idea what will happen to the Venice division. Though, those 8100s will probably be relocated to the new division 13 or at different divisions.

User "Orion V 1400" is correct. The 130 line IS back to MV Transportation meaning that the 10 Orions @ Southland have been transferred back to MV.

ORLY? Are you really sure about it?

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ORLY? Are you really sure about it?

1000% correct. Line 130 is once again operated by MV and the Southland operated Orions have been returned to MV as well. I have seen this with my own eyes everyday since the service change in December.

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1000% correct. Line 130 is once again operated by MV and the Southland operated Orions have been returned to MV as well. I have seen this with my own eyes everyday since the service change in December.

That's a good boy, then. I guess you have been keeping score with line 130 for quite sometime and probably took notes that MV Transportation did indeed got it's old line and it's 10 Orion buses back from Southland Transit last month, that you claimed it happened.

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Yes that's correct, MV is indeed running the 130

And yes D5 / D18 get XN40's first to replace C40's

Will be nice to see the XN 40's in service soon. They will be a great addition to Metro's fleet. Love that the South Bay area will get them first. That means I will be seeing them quite a bit everyday.

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Don't forget that divisions 2 and 6 are going to be shut down due to the opening of division 13 near Union Station this summer. Although div. 2 may be opened for training buses and possibly turned into storage.

I'm not surprised that D6 is going, MTA has been planning that for years. But D2?!? Again?!? (some of you may recall that Div. 2 shut down as an operating division from September 1985 until December 1990 (although the location hosted Division 1 buses from late 1986 until sometime in 1987 due to some work (never knew exactly what) at the D1 location that required the facility to close). At the 12/90 shakeup, the reopened D2 ran weekday only helper runs on the 420 and 424 (what I heard it was to cut down on the long deadheads from Terminal 28 to Div. 8 in Chatsworth). D8 sent 1984 Neoplans 3441-3471 to cover this. Since 31 buses don't take up much room in a yard designed to hold over 100, D2 continued to be used as a staging area for new buses (I remember seeing the 2800s (1990 Flxible Metros) there, as well as the 2900s (1992 Metros) and even the LADOT Neoplan AN340As in 1992, some of which RTD (and later MTA) operated out of D8 under contract to LADOT on the 574 (I think). D2 becamse a full-service division at the 6/92 shakeup, with pretty much the lines it runs now, with some changes (they picked up the 60 from D10 at some point, I think there were other changes). Apparently, MTA feels they don't need it (again). At least this time there is a replacement in D13, the last time, D1, D3, D5 and D10 had to pick up the slack (with D18 picking up some lines/runs from D5 to help out).

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Will be nice to see the XN 40's in service soon. They will be a great addition to Metro's fleet. Love that the South Bay area will get them first. That means I will be seeing them quite a bit everyday.

That could of been the Gillig Brt CNG plus series be ready to be put in service early month month, instead of these XN40, but it's what it is though.

Too many of you are avoiding this question: The 2K05-06 LACMTA Nabi 60ft. brt artic buses (9200-9399, 9400-9494) have been and/or are about to be repowered with Cummins Westport ISL-G engines from Cummins L Gas + engines, which is supposed to last this year.

Since they are being repowered with new engines, why do those artics sound like they still have their old engines? I thought they would sound like the 2K07-08 nabi brt artics (9500-9594) which would delivered with Cummins Westport ISL-G engines?

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