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Yes, I would have to agree with that as well.

This is a well known problem among commercial truck drivers. Many independent owner operators are complaining about the decreased fuel economy of the 2010 compliant engines. I'm not surprised that there is a similar problem with the new buses. That having been said, the decrease in economy is relative to older "modern" engines, not relative to the 2 strokes.

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This is a well known problem among commercial truck drivers. Many independent owner operators are complaining about the decreased fuel economy of the 2010 compliant engines. I'm not surprised that there is a similar problem with the new buses. That having been said, the decrease in economy is relative to older "modern" engines, not relative to the 2 strokes.

The EGR (exhaust gas recirculation)valve is a bit of a paradox : The exhaust is ultimately cleaner, but you reduce the efficiency of the engine, burn more fuel and make even more of what you're trying to clean.

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The EGR (exhaust gas recirculation)valve is a bit of a paradox : The exhaust is ultimately cleaner, but you reduce the efficiency of the engine, burn more fuel and make even more of what you're trying to clean.

DPF equipped engines inject fuel on the exhaust stroke in order to burn off the trapped particulate. I don't know if this happens on every exhaust stroke, or just when the filter is full, but that also contributes to decreased economy.

I've actually wondered for some time if these new buses had the same economy issues experienced by long haul trucks, I guess I now have the answer to that. BC Transit corporate, and Translink, would not normally divulge this information, as they are interested in reducing emissions. (Didn't BC Transit retrofit DPF technology on some of the deckers?) I guess it took a smaller community run property to say "Hey, wait a minute..."

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This is a well known problem among commercial truck drivers. Many independent owner operators are complaining about the decreased fuel economy of the 2010 compliant engines. I'm not surprised that there is a similar problem with the new buses. That having been said, the decrease in economy is relative to older "modern" engines, not relative to the 2 strokes.

Are #'s 9319-9433 2010 compliant? For some reason I was under the impression they weren't.

True, the BCT's 2006 Novas are more fuel efficient than the 2007's and newer due to aforementioned particulate matter exhaust filter. Though I got the impression that they were comparing fleet usage with the Novas to their old Orions, since that's all they would be able to directly compare to. Nelson never ran any Flyers or older Novas...though maybe some Darts at one point, I can't remember.

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DPF equipped engines inject fuel on the exhaust stroke in order to burn off the trapped particulate. I don't know if this happens on every exhaust stroke, or just when the filter is full, but that also contributes to decreased economy.
That normally only kicks in when a back pressure sensor is triggered by excessive soot load, it'll also activate a light on the dash, so as not to park near anything combustible while it cleans itself out (that little sucker can pass 1000 degrees Fareinheit at the tailpipe while it's active)

Additionally, 2007 and newer engines still have EGRs, they just work in concert with the DPF.

To my knowledge, the only engine manufacturer to get away with eliminating the EGR for 2011 and substituting Urea injection and muffler after treatment alone is Mercedes.

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That normally only kicks in when a back pressure sensor is triggered by excessive soot load, it'll also activate a light on the dash, so as not to park near anything combustible while it cleans itself out (that little sucker can pass 1000 degrees Fareinheit at the tailpipe while it's active)

Additionally, 2007 and newer engines still have EGRs, they just work in concert with the DPF.

To my knowledge, the only engine manufacturer to get away with eliminating the EGR for 2011 and substituting Urea injection and muffler after treatment alone is Mercedes.

I didn't think it was constant, but I didn't know for sure. Ford had some interesting "temperature" problems when they introduced DPF on the all new 2008 SuperDuty... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v36MCcRPRTc

Parking near flammable things is always a bad idea. The catalytic converter on a gas engine can sometimes get hot enough to ignite dry leaves (Jaguar had this problem with their V12 engines. Some years had dual distributors, one for each bank, and if one distributor malfunctions, the engine will run, but it will dump raw fuel down the exhaust, resulting in a VERY hot cat...)

Would urea injection and muffler after treatment help with the fuel economy issues?

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I didn't think it was constant, but I didn't know for sure. Ford had some interesting "temperature" problems when they introduced DPF on the all new 2008 SuperDuty... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v36MCcRPRTc

Parking near flammable things is always a bad idea. The catalytic converter on a gas engine can sometimes get hot enough to ignite dry leaves (Jaguar had this problem with their V12 engines. Some years had dual distributors, one for each bank, and if one distributor malfunctions, the engine will run, but it will dump raw fuel down the exhaust, resulting in a VERY hot cat...)

Would urea injection and muffler after treatment help with the fuel economy issues?

Yeah, I've seen that video too. :P Has some serious fuel knock, I'd be looking at the engine injectors also.

If is eliminates the EGR, definitely. With the entire system still in place, not so much.

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New Buses Cost More than Expected - The Nelson Post

http://thenelsonpost.ca/2011/02/01/new-bus...-than-expected/

The debt service for buses has bit Victoria as well:

http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/Olympi...5100/story.html

http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/Editor...1899/story.html

(Check out the category on this. Transit apparently is a sport. Maybe a blood sport?)

see this letter to the editor, which expresses the same sentiment about "sending them back to the province":

http://www.timescolonist.com/Send+Olympic+...3962/story.html

Personally, we should be glad we live in BC, where the province shares the operational costs on a fairly consistent basis. Pity poor Alberta, whose communities have to ask individually for help, or Toronto, which gets none at all from Ontario.

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Personally, we should be glad we live in BC, where the province shares the operational costs on a fairly consistent basis. Pity poor Alberta, whose communities have to ask individually for help, or Toronto, which gets none at all from Ontario.

Yes, but why should new buses be bought when they don't need them?

I don't know how everyone else runs their life, but if you can't afford or don't need something, you don't get it :angry:

Chris Cassidy

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I knew something had to be a bit off, BC Transit rented and leased so many buses from outside sources (like the Prevost coaches) and even bought some older buses at low cost (ex-STM LFSs) but still found it necessary to buy hundreds of new ones? I didn't understand where all the buses would go and who'd pay for them... look like the whole plan is collapsing in on itself now. I never heard of ANY of the ex-STMs in service except for the one Chris fell asleep on, they just sat in storage during the games then went to scrap.

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Yes, but why should new buses be bought when they don't need them?

I don't know how everyone else runs their life, but if you can't afford or don't need something, you don't get it :angry:

Chris Cassidy

I guess that is the crux of the argument, about whether or not we needed the buses. Given the age of the New Flyers, MCIs, and Orions they replaced, I think there is a pretty good case that we did.

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I knew something had to be a bit off, BC Transit rented and leased so many buses from outside sources (like the Prevost coaches) and even bought some older buses at low cost (ex-STM LFSs) but still found it necessary to buy hundreds of new ones? I didn't understand where all the buses would go and who'd pay for them... look like the whole plan is collapsing in on itself now. I never heard of ANY of the ex-STMs in service except for the one Chris fell asleep on, they just sat in storage during the games then went to scrap.

They were used on and off in Victoria during the games.

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From 02 July 2013 the transit systems in Nelson, Castlegar, Trail, and Kaslo - Nakusp formally roll out as one entity, West Kootenay Transit. The underlying operating contracts with Trail Transit Services Inc., Arrow & Slocan Lakes Community Services and the City of Nelson continue.

wkt_map_region.gif

BC Transit link

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A week? Seems like more than a year later!

HAHA! I was out there last year too, didn't see much. I'm in the area now and spotted the Yaxing yesterday.... its actually a real nice bus looks like it's built pretty solid!

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Hello Everyone,

My name is Gerry and I'm the Transit Leadhand for the City of Nelson.

I thought you might like to see some pictures from a drivetrain swap we recently did on one of our 2009 Novas, (Olympic stock)

20180125_134936.thumb.jpg.940fa769d33d6094a71c1d0ae3e48d73.jpg20180125_134852.thumb.jpg.0ae631577fff44eef95e9bfd1c13a054.jpg20180110_123327.thumb.jpg.61623b090eed848f38729441e61e4f33.jpg20180110_123318.thumb.jpg.4d91258d2e020dcaff1033828f5dc7eb.jpg20180110_123304.thumb.jpg.b1ebb0ee2d14a6cc0e85c29872124914.jpg20180110_123242.thumb.jpg.2480f5a15c732dfa108ac0e3c456df31.jpg20180129_141913.thumb.jpg.ab56f8d02921b8f62e6fc492631d2668.jpg

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2 hours ago, Gerry T said:

Hello Everyone,

My name is Gerry and I'm the Transit Leadhand for the City of Nelson.

I thought you might like to see some pictures from a drivetrain swap we recently did on one of our 2009 Novas, (Olympic stock)

20180125_134936.thumb.jpg.940fa769d33d6094a71c1d0ae3e48d73.jpg20180125_134852.thumb.jpg.0ae631577fff44eef95e9bfd1c13a054.jpg20180110_123327.thumb.jpg.61623b090eed848f38729441e61e4f33.jpg20180110_123318.thumb.jpg.4d91258d2e020dcaff1033828f5dc7eb.jpg20180110_123304.thumb.jpg.b1ebb0ee2d14a6cc0e85c29872124914.jpg20180110_123242.thumb.jpg.2480f5a15c732dfa108ac0e3c456df31.jpg20180129_141913.thumb.jpg.ab56f8d02921b8f62e6fc492631d2668.jpg

Thanks for the update Gerry! 

How are the 2013 Vicinitys holding up? 

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45 minutes ago, Matt Dunlop said:

Thanks for the update Gerry! 

How are the 2013 Vicinitys holding up? 

Pretty good considering they were from the first batch purchased by BC Transit.

I hear the newer models have many improvements over the first ones put in service.

 

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