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Hamilton Transit Centre


Enviro 500

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HTC is coming along nicely, I can't wait to check out the depot when I transfer there in September.  

As of right now, these are the routes that will be there for sure.  Some could still change, but I doubt it at this point.

100 101 104 106 110 112 116 123 125 128 129 134 136 144 155 410 430.  

Left out 123 by accident.

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For reference Sake:

HTC will run 100 101 104 106 110 112 116 125 128 129 134 136 144 155 410 430.  

BTC loses 106 110 112 116 125 129 134 136

BTC keeps 026 027 028 029 044 123 130 135 145 in addition to gaining 209 210 211 214 228 229 230 231 232 236 239 240 241 242 246 247.

As mentioned before, headways are too tight to interline 130/28.

I see 123 work being completely separate - all interlines involving a 123 involve a 106. Could allow for service increases. 

Bold - high frequency routes

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I edited my post.  I forgot to put in the 123 which will be run entirely out of HTC.  

It is mostly on its own with a few trips at the start of some runs.  For example, a trip from New West to Brentwood then go on to do a 134 or 136.  

Lots of interesting interlines, it will be neat to drive in Burnaby/New West then head out to Richmond on the 410.  

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Those route seem like good choice for this transit centre. I wonder why CMBC did put the 301, and 340? Those routes seems like good for this transit centre. Will CNG buses be safe under trolley wires? Will CNG be able to fit in Metrotown bus loop with trolley wires under the mall?

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Considering they had an Enviro 500 double decker go through Metrotown a number of years ago as a demo, without issue as far as I know, I'm sure an XN40 will fit just fine.  I don't think they are that much higher than a Nova HEV or the XDE60's.

Also, part of the metrotown station upgrades is having the buses on Central Blvd under the SkyTrain.  As per that plan, only the 19 106 and 130 will go into the current loop. 

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Just now, Brando737 said:

Considering they had an Enviro 500 double decker go through Metrotown a number of years ago as a demo, without issue as far as I know, I'm sure an XN40 will fit just fine.  I don't think they are that much higher than a Nova HEV or the XDE60's.

Also, part of the metrotown station upgrades is having the buses on Central Blvd under the SkyTrain.  As per that plan, only the 19 106 and 130 will go into the current loop. 

Ok, thank you. Why aren't they moving the 19, 106 and 130 to under the SkyTrain station? 

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20 minutes ago, Blue Bus Fan said:

Ok, thank you. Why aren't they moving the 19, 106 and 130 to under the SkyTrain station? 

 

23 minutes ago, Brando737 said:

Also, part of the metrotown station upgrades is having the buses on Central Blvd under the SkyTrain.  As per that plan, only the 19 106 and 130 will go into the current loop. 

I thought it was the 110 going into the loop; not 130?

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Screenshot_20160608-220223.png

Yes I stand corrected.  It'll be the 19 110 and 144 into the loop as per this current plan.  I see this plan possibly changing depending on how the HTC interlining at metrotown works out.  It'll take some time to work out the kinks of new interlining.

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While the 19 staying in the loop makes sense (would be a large capital cost for new wires), the 110 and 144 makes less sense. Are they planning on keeping the loop at its current size for a mere 3 routes, or does the mall have plans to cut it in half or something?

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On December 15, 2015 at 11:39 PM, Brando737 said:

BTC will be getting 12 XDE60's early next year so you'll see them on the 43 44 99 135 145. It seems like all future orders of artics will be XDE, possibly XN if RTC and STC get the upgrade.

Back on topic. RTC will keep the 480 as it's own run and if they transfer artics to VTC for the 49, chances are they will be the XDE's.

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

Why transfer the XDE60's to VTC and not the D60LF's where the 620 would benfit from the A/C more than the 49

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2 minutes ago, Xcelsior Bus Fan said:

Why transfer the XDE60's to VTC and not the D60LF's where the 620 would benfit from the A/C more than the 49

We've been down this road too.

When you have a small isolated subfleet of coaches, there is frequently a smaller variation of run types for them to operate.

For example, the artics at STC, on the 96 B-Line, operate almost exclusively all-day runs. There are few/no trippers available. Thus the average usage of the subfleet is much higher than it would be at a garage with a large fleet and a larger pool of runs. The 1998 D60LFs struggled, badly, to keep up with the service demands on the 96. They would have been much better off at BTC where they could rotate through a variety of work, from short trippers to all day pieces, given their age.

 

The fleet going to VTC will see similar demands (though there are some trippers on the 49). Thus, a newer fleet should be assigned, because of the increased usage of the fleet.

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3 minutes ago, northwesterner said:

We've been down this road too.

When you have a small isolated subfleet of coaches, there is frequently a smaller variation of run types for them to operate.

For example, the artics at STC, on the 96 B-Line, operate almost exclusively all-day runs. There are few/no trippers available. Thus the average usage of the subfleet is much higher than it would be at a garage with a large fleet and a larger pool of runs. The 1998 D60LFs struggled, badly, to keep up with the service demands on the 96. They would have been much better off at BTC where they could rotate through a variety of work, from short trippers to all day pieces, given their age.

 

The fleet going to VTC will see similar demands (though there are some trippers on the 49). Thus, a newer fleet should be assigned, because of the increased usage of the fleet.

I've used the 620 many times and isn't it also all day? As well the buses used on the 620 often have no recovery time as they often leave right away after arriving at Tsawwassen ferrey terminal unlike the 49 which gets recovery at both ends. In that case doesn't is seem like it's better to have the D60LF's on the 49 where there is always recovery which allows the buses to rest and have the XDE60's on the 620 where there is less recovery?

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Having the XDE60's on the 620 defeats the purpose of the savings that a hybrid bus offers.  They are only used on the 620 currently because they are available for use.  

The 49 is the perfect route for a hybrid bus and is hard on a straight diesel.  There is no stop and go on the 620, just get up to speed and the bus can cruise along which is less wear on a diesel compared to a route that is always packed and makes every stop.  Also, on the 620, you can get a nice breeze through there bus while on the highway to keep the bus cooler.  On the 49, that doesn't happen so the A/C is needed more on the 49.  And I'd say the 620 has more recovery than the majority of 49 runs.

To the point, the newer buses will go where the work is the hardest to prolong the life of the aging fleet and have more reliable service.

Back on topic of HTC, the 301 and 340 could be transferred to HTC at a future date as well as a few other routes.  They are only running HTC at 50% capacity to start to ease the transit center into service and make sure everything works out OK.  Along with the 301 and 340, I could see the 156 sent to HTC as it could be interlined with the 155 & 128 at braid and 101 110 136 at lougheed.

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4 hours ago, Brando737 said:

Having the XDE60's on the 620 defeats the purpose of the savings that a hybrid bus offers.  They are only used on the 620 currently because they are available for use.  

The 49 is the perfect route for a hybrid bus and is hard on a straight diesel.  There is no stop and go on the 620, just get up to speed and the bus can cruise along which is less wear on a diesel compared to a route that is always packed and makes every stop.  Also, on the 620, you can get a nice breeze through there bus while on the highway to keep the bus cooler.  On the 49, that doesn't happen so the A/C is needed more on the 49.  And I'd say the 620 has more recovery than the majority of 49 runs.

To the point, the newer buses will go where the work is the hardest to prolong the life of the aging fleet and have more reliable service.

Back on topic of HTC, the 301 and 340 could be transferred to HTC at a future date as well as a few other routes.  They are only running HTC at 50% capacity to start to ease the transit center into service and make sure everything works out OK.  Along with the 301 and 340, I could see the 156 sent to HTC as it could be interlined with the 155 & 128 at braid and 101 110 136 at lougheed.

Guess i'm avoiding the 620 once the XDE60's get transferred out. I hate the D60LF's and cant stand them. And according to the schedules the 49 in fact actually get more recovery time than the 620. The 620 hardly has recovery time at the Tsawwassen ferry terminal. Currently I've noticed the XDE60's get b/o'ed on the 49 more than the 620 which already seems like they are more suited on the 620 than the 49. 

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8 hours ago, Stormscape said:

While the 19 staying in the loop makes sense (would be a large capital cost for new wires), the 110 and 144 makes less sense. Are they planning on keeping the loop at its current size for a mere 3 routes, or does the mall have plans to cut it in half or something?

What I had heard was the loop will eventually be gone entirely. Once the station construction is complete, or closer to, the stops and new curbside bays will be used on the south side of Central. Once that happens, the north side would be reconfigured to have bays for the 19, 110, 144. Essentially, the 110/144 will come in west bound and continue to McKay, turn right to Kingsway then left on Nelson. The 19 would continue to Nelson, right Bennett, right Central. The other buses would come in east bound and then continue on to turn right at Imperial and back to their normal routing. Basically all buses would travel in only one direction when servicing the station.

This is all third-hand info, but I don't think it's a big secret that the mall doesn't want the loop there anymore and would rather build out. That loop has been there since before the mall was built and I think they grudgingly over the years had to work around it. This plan would make sense if mall has anything to do with it. If they want it moved so badly, maybe they could chip in for the cost of moving the trolley overhead...

This is obviously a ways away still but for the short-term, I think the plan is that the current loop will be used for the 19 and layover. I still believe the 110/144 will be moved to the north side of Central sooner than later.

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49 minutes ago, Xcelsior Bus Fan said:

Guess i'm avoiding the 620 once the XDE60's get transferred out. I hate the D60LF's and cant stand them. And according to the schedules the 49 in fact actually get more recovery time than the 620. The 620 hardly has recovery time at the Tsawwassen ferry terminal. Currently I've noticed the XDE60's get b/o'ed on the 49 more than the 620 which already seems like they are more suited on the 620 than the 49. 

just for you   

 

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Out of curiousity, what busses will run out of HTC/BTC once HTC is open?

Will NVTC Nova's transfer to BTC, and the existing BTC Nova's transfer to HTC, plus get BTC's Articulated fleet? Also, will the HTC/BTC mean a return of some D40LF's to Burnaby?

Any insight would be great!

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HTC will be getting about 50 XN40 delivered new for September so there is a guarantee that New Flyers will return to Burnaby for local routes.  I don't know what type or depot the rest of the buses needed will come from.  

I would assume that NVT Nova's would transfer directly to HTC as that would be easier than doing a double transfer to BTC then from BTC to HTC.  With all the shuffling around and 45 XD40's being delivered shorty (planned for RTC, but that could change) it's hard to tell exactly what will happen.  But at least there is the guarantee of the XN40's out of HTC. 

I'm planning on transferring to HTC in September and will most likely post in here of what the equipment will be when I know.

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