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9803 made it safely to its destination to Europe !

Dayton RTA revealed a new paint scheme for the new NexGen dual-mode battery electric trolleybuses today. This scheme will be used on the production units that we should start seeing next year. Attache

Found out they are at least keeping 2 Skodas when all the Next Gens get here

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  • 2 months later...

Lot of news from Dayton since the post. Luckily etbetb has been keeping a current blog selection on his Dayton site: http://daytontrolleys.net/pictures/dtnet_sub_misc_trolleystatus.htm

Also I've been keeping a good count of what ETIs we've seen on the road. Thanks to the local group for spotting a few: http://cw.daytontrolleys.net/

Of course out of all the good news there is bad. Route 5 will be put back as a diesel due to more construction projects on Brown St. Statement can be seen here: http://www.i-riderta.org/service_advisory_brown_street_.aspx

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  • 1 month later...

That's correct. This is the second round for the proposal, however, some specs have changed: 4 Dual-Mode ETBs (2 battery, 2 diesel), 39,100 GVWR max., 40' coach, seating capacity 40, and 60mph off wire down to 55 mph for express service.

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So it's possible New Flyer or maybe DesignLine will be interested in it?

I wonder if New Flyer would even be interested in producing only 4 buses, since they do not normally churn out dual-mode buses, as far as I know. I'm disappointed that no one submitted the first time.

Maybe the specs have changed because a manufacturer told the RTA that they would be interested if they could offer a battery electric bus (no diesel). . .

Am I right in concluding that Dayton plans to test 2 of each (catenary/battery vs. catenary/diesel-electric hybrid) and decide on a winner?

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I wonder if New Flyer would even be interested in producing only4 buses, since it sounds like they would have to be highly customized.

Perhaps the possibility of selling 75 more later will be enough though.

Am I right in concluding that Dayton plans to test 2 of each (catenary/battery vs. catenary/diesel-electric hybrid) and decide on a winner?

Comes down to price as long New Flyer could sell them for the price to cover their cost , they would bid.

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@MAX / @Joe. New Flyer dual modes as delivered to Philadelphia are 44,100 lbs GVWR. Ohio law dictates that no two-axle vehicle can weigh more than 40000 lbs GVWR. Unless New Flyer can find a way to remove about 10% of their vehicle's weight, we have a problem.

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@MAX / @Joe. New Flyer dual modes as delivered to Philadelphia are 44,100 lbs GVWR. Ohio law dictates that no two-axle vehicle can weigh more than 40000 lbs GVWR. Unless New Flyer can find a way to remove about 10% of their vehicle's weight, we have a problem.

Very interesante, etb. New Flyer touts their weight reduction for Xcelsior vs. LFR but I'd guess that under 40k is not going to happen for a dual mode. I don't know if a battery bus can do it. . . I just hope somebody can meet the specs. If its not going to be New Flyer, its going to be something very interesting and probably something unproven.

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Unproven, yes. Gillig hasn't ever built a trolleybus. If you read the RFP closely, one way to interpret is that the bus is a "glider" (everything but the engine), where another entity will install the power system.

That is what Seattle did by installing the motors from their old AMG trolleybuses into Gillig Phantom shells (link to wiki).

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Unproven, yes. Gillig hasn't ever built a trolleybus. If you read the RFP closely, one way to interpret is that the bus is a "glider" (everything but the engine), where another entity will install the power system.

Any particular reason you bring up Gillig?

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Unproven, yes. Gillig hasn't ever built a trolleybus. If you read the RFP closely, one way to interpret is that the bus is a "glider" (everything but the engine), where another entity will install the power system.

That's not uncommon, both Edmonton and Toronto purchased trolleybuses this way.

I remember hearing rumours that Dayton and Seattle were considering a joint trolley order. Did anything come of that?

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  • 2 weeks later...

If CCW comes up with a drop in ETB propulsion system for Gillig Low Floor/BRT units, or any general low floor for that matter, that could be very interesting! I could see operators especially taking an interest if they could send in older diesel buses with frames and components that are still in good shape for refurbishment and repowering to ETB. (Assuming the cost wasn't too high)

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MVT, I like the way you think. CCW does refurbishment and TA's are known to go for that where electric trolleys are concerned! As far as cost, CCW certainly crows about their cost savings when it comes to their electric bus (refurbished from a D40LF).

Maybe CCW is collaborating with Vossloh for the ETB propulsion system. Vossloh was also at the meeting.

I still don't know what the RFP actually says about Gillig, need to look that up.

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@Max: It's a Gillig glider. Or equivalent. Page 98.

Gillig dual modes today appear to also (along with New Flyer) break the 40K GVWR number for a two axle vehicle in the state of Ohio. I *suppose* the RTA could limit the number of standees or could pull seats in order to make weight. I don't know how they can run on the street today, but I lack inside knowledge.

http://146.186.225.57/buses/reports/360.pdf?1279656219

Bear in mind that it's one thing to build an electrical system which expects to get a nice controlled consistent 3-phase 480V out of a charger in the garage, but quite another to let the electrical system be exposed to power anywhere from 450V DC (Route 5 going up the Oakwood hill) to 1000+V DC (as you're going up the Oakwood hill, an inbound bus passes you in the other direction going down the hill and regenning. Oddly, the simple way to deal with a battery bus could be to not let the bus charge off the overhead.

120 miles is on the hairy edge of usably being able to run several of the long GDRTA routes without having to go to the garage too often. As an example, a route like Rt 14 (Trotwood-Centerville) runs a little less than half under wire, with two 7 seven mile loops at either end. Figure 30 miles of route without wire per round trip. I suppose it could run 4 trips per day, assuming running under wire for about half the time did a partial recharge. However, if there was a power problem, this 24 mile one-way route could at most have one full trip (long hills both ways out of downtown, plus several other hills) before you had to take a 120 mile battery bus back to the barn for a recharge.

In other Dayton news

- Many of the overhead line poles on Brown St (Route 5) have been replaced as part of a street reconstruction project. A few have spanwires moved.

- The traffic signal construction at Woodman and Patterson (Route 7) is completed. All but one of the overhead line poles are up out there, and most of the spanwires are in. Still need this intersection wired up, as well as a crossover at Brown and Wyoming.

- The RTA is moving ahead with the plan to accommodate service while I-75 is rebuilt (again!) thru Dayton

-- Bids out for about 12 miles of wire and a boatload of overhead line parts

-- Plan is to rewire Riverview Dr (last wired in 1960 for the old Five Oaks loop) in order to preserve trolley service on Salem Ave (Rt 8)

-- Also wiring Edwin C Moses Blvd for a path for Rt 1/2/3/4 trolleys to get to downtown

etbetb

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