2822 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Have any of the 30" or 35" New Flyers ended up at other transit systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytonbuses Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 None that I know of. The only buses that I know that were sold to other systems are the six 40" New Flyers and a hand full of 97 NovaBus RTSs went to Nigeria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytonbuses Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Lot of news from Dayton since the post. Luckily etbetb has been keeping a current blog selection on his Dayton site: http://daytontrolleys.net/pictures/dtnet_sub_misc_trolleystatus.htm Also I've been keeping a good count of what ETIs we've seen on the road. Thanks to the local group for spotting a few: http://cw.daytontrolleys.net/ Of course out of all the good news there is bad. Route 5 will be put back as a diesel due to more construction projects on Brown St. Statement can be seen here: http://www.i-riderta.org/service_advisory_brown_street_.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 The RTA has submitted another rfp's for Dual-Mode buses...there's a pre-bid meeting July 25th and thy're due by August 10th...the complete rfp is currently on their website. I wonder who'll submit a proposal this time? I heard no one did on the first one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytonbuses Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 That's correct. This is the second round for the proposal, however, some specs have changed: 4 Dual-Mode ETBs (2 battery, 2 diesel), 39,100 GVWR max., 40' coach, seating capacity 40, and 60mph off wire down to 55 mph for express service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 So it's possible New Flyer or maybe DesignLine will be interested in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAX BRT Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 So it's possible New Flyer or maybe DesignLine will be interested in it? I wonder if New Flyer would even be interested in producing only 4 buses, since they do not normally churn out dual-mode buses, as far as I know. I'm disappointed that no one submitted the first time. Maybe the specs have changed because a manufacturer told the RTA that they would be interested if they could offer a battery electric bus (no diesel). . . Am I right in concluding that Dayton plans to test 2 of each (catenary/battery vs. catenary/diesel-electric hybrid) and decide on a winner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAverageJoe Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 I wonder if New Flyer would even be interested in producing only4 buses, since it sounds like they would have to be highly customized. Perhaps the possibility of selling 75 more later will be enough though. Am I right in concluding that Dayton plans to test 2 of each (catenary/battery vs. catenary/diesel-electric hybrid) and decide on a winner? Comes down to price as long New Flyer could sell them for the price to cover their cost , they would bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etbetb Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 @MAX / @Joe. New Flyer dual modes as delivered to Philadelphia are 44,100 lbs GVWR. Ohio law dictates that no two-axle vehicle can weigh more than 40000 lbs GVWR. Unless New Flyer can find a way to remove about 10% of their vehicle's weight, we have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAX BRT Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 @MAX / @Joe. New Flyer dual modes as delivered to Philadelphia are 44,100 lbs GVWR. Ohio law dictates that no two-axle vehicle can weigh more than 40000 lbs GVWR. Unless New Flyer can find a way to remove about 10% of their vehicle's weight, we have a problem. Very interesante, etb. New Flyer touts their weight reduction for Xcelsior vs. LFR but I'd guess that under 40k is not going to happen for a dual mode. I don't know if a battery bus can do it. . . I just hope somebody can meet the specs. If its not going to be New Flyer, its going to be something very interesting and probably something unproven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etbetb Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Unproven, yes. Gillig hasn't ever built a trolleybus. If you read the RFP closely, one way to interpret is that the bus is a "glider" (everything but the engine), where another entity will install the power system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsbuspage Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Unproven, yes. Gillig hasn't ever built a trolleybus. If you read the RFP closely, one way to interpret is that the bus is a "glider" (everything but the engine), where another entity will install the power system. That is what Seattle did by installing the motors from their old AMG trolleybuses into Gillig Phantom shells (link to wiki). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAX BRT Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Unproven, yes. Gillig hasn't ever built a trolleybus. If you read the RFP closely, one way to interpret is that the bus is a "glider" (everything but the engine), where another entity will install the power system. Any particular reason you bring up Gillig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRT_BMT_IND Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Unproven, yes. Gillig hasn't ever built a trolleybus. If you read the RFP closely, one way to interpret is that the bus is a "glider" (everything but the engine), where another entity will install the power system. That's not uncommon, both Edmonton and Toronto purchased trolleybuses this way. I remember hearing rumours that Dayton and Seattle were considering a joint trolley order. Did anything come of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAverageJoe Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 That's not uncommon, both Edmonton and Toronto purchased trolleybuses this way. Vancouver did the same in the early 1980's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytonbuses Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Article from the local newspaper about new dual-mode trolleys: http://www.daytondai...al-funds/nP2Yw/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etbetb Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Any particular reason you bring up Gillig? @Max ... the RFP specifically calls out Gillig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAX BRT Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 @Max ... the RFP specifically calls out Gillig. Thanks. So are they committed to using a Gillig bus but calling for proposals for suppliers of the drivetrain? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Hi, did anyone hear who attended the pre-bid meeting yesterday for the dual-mode trolleybus contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytonbuses Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Hi, did anyone hear who attended the pre-bid meeting yesterday for the dual-mode trolleybus contract? Sign-in sheet can be found here: http://proc.greaterdaytonrta.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Thanks for the info...it looks like next to nobody showed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAX BRT Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Sign-in sheet can be found here: http://proc.greaterdaytonrta.org/ Complete Coach Works looks to be on that list. Perhaps they will propose 2 of their remanufactured electric buses. http://www.completecoach.com/electric-bus/ This keeps getting more interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVTArider Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 If CCW comes up with a drop in ETB propulsion system for Gillig Low Floor/BRT units, or any general low floor for that matter, that could be very interesting! I could see operators especially taking an interest if they could send in older diesel buses with frames and components that are still in good shape for refurbishment and repowering to ETB. (Assuming the cost wasn't too high) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAX BRT Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 MVT, I like the way you think. CCW does refurbishment and TA's are known to go for that where electric trolleys are concerned! As far as cost, CCW certainly crows about their cost savings when it comes to their electric bus (refurbished from a D40LF). Maybe CCW is collaborating with Vossloh for the ETB propulsion system. Vossloh was also at the meeting. I still don't know what the RFP actually says about Gillig, need to look that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etbetb Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 @Max: It's a Gillig glider. Or equivalent. Page 98. Gillig dual modes today appear to also (along with New Flyer) break the 40K GVWR number for a two axle vehicle in the state of Ohio. I *suppose* the RTA could limit the number of standees or could pull seats in order to make weight. I don't know how they can run on the street today, but I lack inside knowledge. http://146.186.225.57/buses/reports/360.pdf?1279656219 Bear in mind that it's one thing to build an electrical system which expects to get a nice controlled consistent 3-phase 480V out of a charger in the garage, but quite another to let the electrical system be exposed to power anywhere from 450V DC (Route 5 going up the Oakwood hill) to 1000+V DC (as you're going up the Oakwood hill, an inbound bus passes you in the other direction going down the hill and regenning. Oddly, the simple way to deal with a battery bus could be to not let the bus charge off the overhead. 120 miles is on the hairy edge of usably being able to run several of the long GDRTA routes without having to go to the garage too often. As an example, a route like Rt 14 (Trotwood-Centerville) runs a little less than half under wire, with two 7 seven mile loops at either end. Figure 30 miles of route without wire per round trip. I suppose it could run 4 trips per day, assuming running under wire for about half the time did a partial recharge. However, if there was a power problem, this 24 mile one-way route could at most have one full trip (long hills both ways out of downtown, plus several other hills) before you had to take a 120 mile battery bus back to the barn for a recharge. In other Dayton news - Many of the overhead line poles on Brown St (Route 5) have been replaced as part of a street reconstruction project. A few have spanwires moved. - The traffic signal construction at Woodman and Patterson (Route 7) is completed. All but one of the overhead line poles are up out there, and most of the spanwires are in. Still need this intersection wired up, as well as a crossover at Brown and Wyoming. - The RTA is moving ahead with the plan to accommodate service while I-75 is rebuilt (again!) thru Dayton -- Bids out for about 12 miles of wire and a boatload of overhead line parts -- Plan is to rewire Riverview Dr (last wired in 1960 for the old Five Oaks loop) in order to preserve trolley service on Salem Ave (Rt 8) -- Also wiring Edwin C Moses Blvd for a path for Rt 1/2/3/4 trolleys to get to downtown etbetb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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