New Flyer Industries Discussion and Photos

[BusRider]

Did hear rumours that this might be possible at some point.

Nope, I just went there, took photos, and left. I don't know any more about this bus than the next guy.

[DE40LFR]

For the HVAC, does it have to be positioned at the front of the bus?

Yes. The new HVAC system that is positioned in the front is going to be installed on the YRT orders, as well as the Winnipeg Transit order and the Austin, TX order!

[A. Wong]

One thing I noticed: those centre axle wheel wells are HUGE!! I just hope NFI isnt gonna put rear facing seats there. No need to Nova-ize the 60ft Xcelsior...... But it looks good so far.

Probably the same size as a D60LF wheel well. They will likely be putting side-facing seats there like on the D60LF.

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

DRT #8472 spotted completed in full livery at NFI earlier today along with a couple of plain white DRT spec'ed D40LF's.

OOPS! A correction to my above post... DRT was spotted and it was #8472 as mentioned above, but the other plain white units that I saw are not DRT units. I am 98% sure they are Burlington units as they pretty much match other Burlington units that I have seen.

[general682002]

OOPS! A correction to my above post... DRT was spotted and it was #8472 as mentioned above, but the other plain white units that I saw are not DRT units. I am 98% sure they are Burlington units as they pretty much match other Burlington units that I have seen.

The latest Burlington order has decalled from factory!

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

The latest Burlington order has decalled from factory!

Correct. These were not decalled yet when I saw them.

[Mr. Engineer]

Probably the same size as a D60LF wheel well. They will likely be putting side-facing seats there like on the D60LF.

Im not so sure that sideways facing seats can fit, at least on this prototype. There's no space next to wheel well for feet, like there is on D60LFs. And if you compare them to the rear most wheel wells, they are much wider. They remind me of the wheel wells at the back of VIVA's Vanhools.

[2044]

Wow!!! XC60 looks HOT!! Its obviously still in development stages though. I thought it might be almost ready for market.... One thing I noticed: those centre axle wheel wells are HUGE!! I just hope NFI isnt gonna put rear facing seats there. No need to Nova-ize the 60ft Xcelsior...... But it looks good so far. Did you manage to get any info on when its going for Altoona testing? Or is it too early in development to even consider that? If only ZUM in Brampton could get their hands on a few of these bad boys. The 501A would run a lot smoother. Did hear rumours that this might be possible at some point. Any more pics where these came from??

It was confirmed by various members a while ago that the XC60 was under development. One member linked to a press release about Omnitran's order, one linked to an RFP for Fresno, and one spoke to an NFI rep during a demo and was told to expect to see production of the XC60 in 2012.

[Mr. Engineer]

It was confirmed by various members a while ago that the XC60 was under development. One member linked to a press release about Omnitran's order, one linked to an RFP for Fresno, and one spoke to an NFI rep during a demo and was told to expect to see production of the XC60 in 2012.

Im more concerned about the overall production of the Xcelsior artic. I already knew we'd see the CNG artic by 2012. But, is 2012 the first we will see specifically the CNG version, or is that earliest possible for any artic X_60's?

[ieko]

If I recall correctly the D and I *think* DE versions are basically finished, the CNG version is still in engineering.

[MT0603]

Probably the same size as a D60LF wheel well. They will likely be putting side-facing seats there like on the D60LF.

Coming from someone who rides D60LF/Rs everyday, those wheelwells are definitely a lot bigger than on the current artics, both in width and height. As you can see, the ledge where you put your feet on when sitting on those sideways facing seat is almost non-existent (2-3 inches) on the Excelsior Artic while on the current artics you have about 9-10 inches of space. The wheelwells are also definitely higher.

I figure they've made the wheelwells bigger because of the suspension issues presented by the current lack of space, anyone who rides New Flyer artics knows what I'm talking about, there is absolutely no suspension give on older artics (1997-2004). The newer artics have quite a bit more give which is probably because of the raised floor around the wheel wells to allow more space for suspension, but it's still not enough on really bumpy roads yet still a major improvement from the older artics. They're probably looking at bringing the iconic New Flyer soft bouncy rear suspension to the center wheelwells.

[Mr. Engineer]

If I recall correctly the D and I *think* DE versions are basically finished, the CNG version is still in engineering.

Ok. I hope you're right. Brampton really needs these.... If they even get any, that is. When the first ZUM bus was unveiled, the driver did mention that they were already looking into XDE60's. He even knew how many cameras they would have and where they would be . I hope he was right.

Coming from someone who rides D60LF/Rs everyday, those wheelwells are definitely a lot bigger than on the current artics, both in width and height. As you can see, the ledge where you put your feet on when sitting on those sideways facing seat is almost non-existent (2-3 inches) on the Excelsior Artic while on the current artics you have about 9-10 inches of space. The wheelwells are also definitely higher.

I figure they've made the wheelwells bigger because of the suspension issues presented by the current lack of space, anyone who rides New Flyer artics knows what I'm talking about, there is absolutely no suspension give on older artics (1997-2004). The newer artics have quite a bit more give which is probably because of the raised floor around the wheel wells to allow more space for suspension, but it's still not enough on really bumpy roads yet still a major improvement from the older artics. They're probably looking at bringing the iconic New Flyer soft bouncy rear suspension to the center wheelwells.

I rode one of MTs 2010 D60LFRs yesterday and the centre suspension seemed ok. I sat in the seat right after the joint area. But I did notice that the flooring on each side of the centre wheel wells was raised a bit. But those wheel wells are absolutey narrower than the XC60's. Im not sure about the actual height though...

[smallspy]

When the first ZUM bus was unveiled, the driver did mention that they were already looking into XDE60's.

Any artics that Brampton might get will only be ordered once the three-year contract with New Flyer for 40-foot Xcelsiors is completed.

Dan

[DL1892]

Any artics that Brampton might get will only be ordered once the three-year contract with New Flyer for 40-foot Xcelsiors is completed.

Dan

second hand OC transpo for the remainder of their life?

[Mr. Engineer]

Any artics that Brampton might get will only be ordered once the three-year contract with New Flyer for 40-foot Xcelsiors is completed.

Dan

What makes you say that?

second hand OC transpo for the remainder of their life?

I hope not. If they get any, they should be LFRs at the very least....

[DE40LFR]

second hand OC transpo for the remainder of their life?

I actually wouldn't mind Winnipeg gettin some of those old artics! Any Artic Will be fine nowadays!! That would a good idea!

[smallspy]

What makes you say that?

My connection at Brampton Transit.

Dan

[Mr. Engineer]

My connection at Brampton Transit.

Dan

Well that's unfortunate. BT should have put some artic options into the contract. Especially since the NFI production sched for the new year doesn't seem to be as busy. That means shorter turn around...... Well, hopefully BT changes its mind about this one. The artics really are needed. Anyone who rides Zum during the week can tell you that.

What's your contact's opinion of the Xcelsiors now though?

[general682002]

Well that's unfortunate. BT should have put some artic options into the contract. Especially since the NFI production sched for the new year doesn't seem to be as busy. That means shorter turn around...... Well, hopefully BT changes its mind about this one. The artics really are needed. Anyone who rides Zum during the week can tell you that.

What's your contact's opinion of the Xcelsiors now though?

An artic orders will have to be work for another tender! Once you signed and deal this current contract, you do not change it!

There's isn't any plans for Brampton getting an artic, you have to deal with so much length size change such as bus stop platform, hoist facility, etc.

[Mr. Engineer]

An artic orders will have to be work for another tender! Once you signed and deal this current contract, you do not change it!

There's isn't any plans for Brampton getting an artic, you have to deal with so much length size change such as bus stop platform, hoist facility, etc.

What I meant was before the current contract was signed, they should have also speced in some artic options. Plus, if they really needed artics, could they not just tender for an new, separate artic contract?

Both of the Zum platforms at BCC are already built for artics. There are actually 4 artic platforms at that terminal (18/18A and the 15 use the other two). The 501A platform at York U appears to be able to handle an artic (its definately bigger than a 40 footer), and even if it couldn't, the Viva Orange (westbound) platform definately can anyways. Zum also has two 40 foot platforms reserved at Downtown Brampton, which are easily convertable into a single artic stop. The Sandalwood Garage (where the Xcelsiors are stored) also has artic hoists built in IIRC. And, with the Centre Street stop perhaps being an exception, all the on street stops are big enough to hold 2 to 3 40 footers, let alone an artic. With all this in mind, its very hard for me to imagine that BT was not planning for the eventual purchase of artics. All they need to do is get the buses and train the drivers/mechanics. If they had the money for artics, there would be very little else to stop them.

[smallspy]

Well that's unfortunate. BT should have put some artic options into the contract. Especially since the NFI production sched for the new year doesn't seem to be as busy. That means shorter turn around...... Well, hopefully BT changes its mind about this one. The artics really are needed. Anyone who rides Zum during the week can tell you that.

You think that's unfortunate. I'm sure that the guys who actually make the decisions don't mind, as having a homogenous fleet makes life a hell of a lot easier for almost everyone. Do you have any idea what it entails to actually operate and maintain articulated buses?

What's your contact's opinion of the Xcelsiors now though?

The last I talked to him - and this was in the summer - was that they were nothing more than glorified D40LFs. As for whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know.

Dan

[ORION]

You think that's unfortunate. I'm sure that the guys who actually make the decisions don't mind, as having a homogenous fleet makes life a hell of a lot easier for almost everyone. Do you have any idea what it entails to actually operate and maintain articulated buses?

The last I talked to him - and this was in the summer - was that they were nothing more than glorified D40LFs. As for whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know.

Dan

Poor Workmanship in the Xcelsior from what i'm seeing.

[Mr. Engineer]

You think that's unfortunate. I'm sure that the guys who actually make the decisions don't mind, as having a homogenous fleet makes life a hell of a lot easier for almost everyone. Do you have any idea what it entails to actually operate and maintain articulated buses?

The last I talked to him - and this was in the summer - was that they were nothing more than glorified D40LFs. As for whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know.

Dan

Oh, Im well aware that maintaining artics is far more 'involved' than maintaining 40 footers; that's a given. All Im saying is that if they're needed to get service to where it should be, then they should be bought, ASAP. At the very least, the service model should have been better planned before making the order, or the number of vehicles in the initial order should have been increased to provide a cushion in case of unexpectedly high usage.

And Im not sure about anyone else here, but to me, the Xcelsior never really seemed like it would end up being much different than the D40LF. I doubt that NFI meant for it be much more than that. Even the literature about the Xcelsior lends to the idea that it wasn't meant to be more. From a user's persepctive, I kinda glad that its not a significant departure from the D40LF. It didn't need to be. Its still better than riding brand new Novas with leaking roofs. And yes, its happened more than once. In fact, I rode an 06 Nova today that was leaking in 2 places, and at least one of our late 2009 novas leaks as well. Of course, I can't really speak from the maintenance side of things.

Poor Workmanship in the Xcelsior from what i'm seeing.

My main concerns with the Xcelsiors centre around some pretty sizeable gaps around the doors, and a strange vibration coming from the engine under acceleration. Other than those two things, Im pretty good with them. The HVAC issues seem be being dealt with. Whenever the drivers have been running the heat, the noise seems to be less than before. And with the engine vibrations, some buses are better than others. But the overall situation seems to be improving somewhat....

[transit boy]

I was by flyer yesterday and I think I saw a Xcelsior in Brampton Transit colours

[Mr. Engineer]

I was by flyer yesterday and I think I saw a Xcelsior in Brampton Transit colours

How'd she look (any pics)??.