orionbuslover Posted June 9, 2020 Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 These are all pretty good changes. It shouldn't have taken Centro so long to react to the decline of Shoppingtown. I do think riders would be better served by having the #168 and #176 serve Wegmans as well. EDIT: Thinking more about it, the James St bus should probably end at Home Depot/Widewaters area as well to serve that newer shopping center. Riders from Eastwood and E. Syracuse would now be inconvenienced by having to ride downtown and then back out to reach that plaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted June 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 Despite its continued decline, Shoppingtown had value as an east side hub to allow transfers between routes. I was able to use the trip planner on the website with next Monday's date to see the new schedules - it appears that the route 530 buses and some route 168 and route 176 trips will service both Home Depot and Walmart to allow for connections with the James St. buses. The 168 and 176 will pass Walmart on select outbound trips only, but the 530 will terminate there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionbuslover Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 Operationally, Shoppingtown was an excellent terminal. It was no longer a destination, but still offered ample layover space and easy access to restrooms for operators. Centro loves to interline their routes. I can't wait to look over the new schedules and see the news service patterns. EDIT: The new schedules are posted. I didn't catch it before but service is being expanded with midday Manlius trips serving downtown again. I think those trips were cut to begin/end at Shoppingtown about 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted June 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 On 6/10/2020 at 5:44 PM, orionbuslover said: Operationally, Shoppingtown was an excellent terminal. It was no longer a destination, but still offered ample layover space and easy access to restrooms for operators. Centro loves to interline their routes. I can't wait to look over the new schedules and see the news service patterns. EDIT: The new schedules are posted. I didn't catch it before but service is being expanded with midday Manlius trips serving downtown again. I think those trips were cut to begin/end at Shoppingtown about 10 years ago. Yes, I had noticed interlines before at Shoppingtown - route 530 outbound buses becoming route 223 inbound and the like. Given the new setup with the 123 and 530 terminating at Walmart while the 168 and 176 terminate at Home Depot, that will limit interlines to those locations I assume, unless a bus goes out of service at one location and deadheads to the other. It would be good if a new east side hub could be found - I think that Marshalls Plaza on Erie Boulevard would be an ideal location. I noticed that the 462 Manlius buses will go express from Wegmans Dewitt to downtown via I-481 and I-690. Still just the four midday trips, with time changes (the two morning trips run earlier than the old schedules). Also, trips have been added on the 36 Camillus and 46 Liverpool routes to replace the previous service on 236 Auburn and 246 Oswego which ran local in Onondaga County, since those intercity services remain suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionbuslover Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 With the 123 and 530 both ending at Walmart, it looks like that interline remains intact. 168 and 176 trips serve Home Depot but I'm going to assume the trips end at Marshall's Plaza. Based off the schedules, 168/176 trips don't actually end at Marshall's Plaza because they are "live-looped" back downtown. The last two time points of outbound trips are the first two time points of inbound trips and they arrive/depart at the same times. Like most Centro routes, the schedules for routes 168/176 are heavily padded with extra time to ensure they arrive back downtown at the same time as all of the other routes. I'd expect to see the majority of 168/176 trips laying over at Marshall's plaza. As long as management at the plaza allows the buses into the property, the plaza is a defacto hub, I don't think any money should be spent on making it an official hub. If Centro ever moves away from its hub and spoke system focused on downtown and offered crosstown routes/routes that don't serve downtown, then outlying hubs might be warranted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.A Posted June 29, 2020 Report Share Posted June 29, 2020 On 6/13/2020 at 10:59 AM, orionbuslover said: With the 123 and 530 both ending at Walmart, it looks like that interline remains intact. 168 and 176 trips serve Home Depot but I'm going to assume the trips end at Marshall's Plaza. Based off the schedules, 168/176 trips don't actually end at Marshall's Plaza because they are "live-looped" back downtown. The last two time points of outbound trips are the first two time points of inbound trips and they arrive/depart at the same times. Like most Centro routes, the schedules for routes 168/176 are heavily padded with extra time to ensure they arrive back downtown at the same time as all of the other routes. I'd expect to see the majority of 168/176 trips laying over at Marshall's plaza. As long as management at the plaza allows the buses into the property, the plaza is a defacto hub, I don't think any money should be spent on making it an official hub. If Centro ever moves away from its hub and spoke system focused on downtown and offered crosstown routes/routes that don't serve downtown, then outlying hubs might be warranted. How are the Orion 7's doing at Centro? Are they treating them well? Hopefully better then SCT or NICE bus (SCT ordered 81 of these buses back in 2010 and already about a dozen or so have been retired either due to mileage reasons or various mishaps over the years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionbuslover Posted July 4, 2020 Report Share Posted July 4, 2020 On 6/29/2020 at 5:40 PM, Chris.A said: How are the Orion 7's doing at Centro? Are they treating them well? Hopefully better then SCT or NICE bus (SCT ordered 81 of these buses back in 2010 and already about a dozen or so have been retired either due to mileage reasons or various mishaps over the years). I was last in Syracuse about two years ago. It was apparent then that CNG Gilligs have become the workhorses of the fleet. With SU and school trippers cancelled, I would imagine the Orions have been resting nicely during this pandemic. There's still 2-4 years left to go for them to reach 12 years old. With the effects the pandemic might have on future budgets, I can see the Orions sticking around atleast another five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.A Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 On 7/4/2020 at 12:15 PM, orionbuslover said: I was last in Syracuse about two years ago. It was apparent then that CNG Gilligs have become the workhorses of the fleet. With SU and school trippers cancelled, I would imagine the Orions have been resting nicely during this pandemic. There's still 2-4 years left to go for them to reach 12 years old. With the effects the pandemic might have on future budgets, I can see the Orions sticking around atleast another five years. Yeah, especially when you consider that the last of the Orion VII CNGs (be it NG or 3G, or even OG) should have atleast 15 years on the tanks, so these buses should be here in theory through atleast 2025. The ones at NICE bus may also be there for that long if the tanks hold up (which they should, whether or not the actual buses themselves do is a subject for another day, but they could possibly outlast their hybrid counterparts in the city, especially the 2011 CNGs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6025 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 http://web.archive.org/web/20200709013712/https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=2595544 Ex-CENTRO 2522 is on the auction block. Appears it was purchased for use as a parts bus by CATA in State College, PA. I wonder what the former centro #s for the c40lf that they did place in service were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.A Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 21 hours ago, Orion6025 said: http://web.archive.org/web/20200709013712/https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=2595544 Ex-CENTRO 2522 is on the auction block. Appears it was purchased for use as a parts bus by CATA in State College, PA. I wonder what the former centro #s for the c40lf that they did place in service were Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6025 Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Interestingly, Orion 1267 is on the Oswego 1D right now. I thought Oswego was 100% Gillig, guess I was wrong about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.A Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Orion6025 said: Interestingly, Orion 1267 is on the Oswego 1D right now. I thought Oswego was 100% Gillig, guess I was wrong about that. Depot transfer maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionbuslover Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Orion6025 said: Interestingly, Orion 1267 is on the Oswego 1D right now. I thought Oswego was 100% Gillig, guess I was wrong about that. I'm sure it's been noted on this forum before, but Centro has always rotated random 40 footers from Syracuse to operate in Auburn, Oswego and even Utica when needed. Centro has announced it will resume it's long distance routes to Auburn and Oswego. They tweaked the service for both routes. There will now be an express version of the Oswego route and a weekend only version of the Auburn route that connects to Camillus Commons and Township 5 where transfers can be made to connect to Syracuse. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6025 Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 I recently received a roster from CENTRO and since I give a hoot about the system, I've taken the liberty of summarizing the bus/city assignments. For more details see the wiki. A few notes - 1. There is the conspicuous absence of 671 and the various 2500s in the contingency fleet. It's unclear to me if they simply did not choose to include contingency fleet or if they retired them, since with the 2020 State Fair cancelled and 2021 Gilligs on the way, there's not much of a reason to keep them around. I'm tempted to go with the latter (Especially since the vast majority of rosters that have come across my "desk" include contingency vehicles), but i don't know for sure... 2. Since I feel most enthusiasts (including myself) couldn't care less about paratransit cutaways, I have/will not make note of them below (and on the wiki). That said, if anyone in the topic is interested, specify the city or division and I can provide fleet #s/models here. 3. I have in service dates for each bus that can be provided on request (I have not put them on the wiki due to the amount of time it would take to add them all). -------- SYRACUSE 682-686 2009 MCI D4000CT 1000-1017 2010 Orion VII NG CNG 07.501 1200-1255 2012 Orion VII EPA10 CNG 07.501 1269 2010 Orion VII EPA10 CNG 07.501 xOrion 1270 2011 Orion VII EPA10 CNG 07.501 xOrion 1271-1272 2012 Orion VII EPA10 CNG 07.501 xMTA 1625-1631 2016 Gillig LF CNG G27D102N4 1709 2017 Gillig LF G27E102N2 1750-1781 2017 Gillig LF CNG G31D102N4 1900-1913 2019 Gillig LF CNG G31D102N4 2800, 2802 2008 Gillig LF G27D102N4 2900-2902, 2904 2009 Gillig LF G27D102N4 OSWEGO 1267-1268 2010 Orion VII EPA10 07.501 xOrion 1700-1704 2017 Gillig LF G27E102N2 1800-1804 2018 Gillig LF G27D102N4 AUBURN 690-696 2015 MCI D4000CT 1705-1708 2017 Gillig LF G27E102N2 1805-1809 2018 Gillig LF G27D102N4 2801 2008 Gillig LF G27D102N4 UTICA 1019 2010 Orion VII NG 07.502 1101-1112 2011 Orion VII EPA10 07.502 1260-1261, 1263 2012 Orion VII EPA10 07.502 1920-1921 2019 Gillig LF G27B102N4 2903 2009 Gillig LF G27D102N4 2905-2908 2009 Gillig LF G27B102N4 ROME 1262, 1264 2012 Orion VII EPA10 07.502 1266 2012 Orion VII EPA10 07.503 2810-2812 2008 Gillig LF BRT G27E102R2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionbuslover Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 With the start of Syracuse University's academic year, Centro is back to full operations in Syracuse (minus city school trips that won't be operating due to remote learning) and I took the opportunity to check out the tracker map to get a glimpse at operations. I was able to confirm my previous suspicion that routes #123/#530 are interlined during the day at Walmart. The benefit appears to be a longer layover for operators as they switch back and forth from routes throughout the day. Usually routes are interlined to reduce the number of buses needed to operate the combined route vs. the number needed to operate the routes separately. The #343 E. Genesee - Westcott is a new campus shuttle route. It operates during the day and early evening in a clockwise direction from campus to Syracuse Stage and Westcott/Euclid area then back to campus. In the evening the service switches to the counter-clockwise #243 East Campus route, connecting the campus with the Euclid/Westcott/E. Genesee area, then the residence halls west of Irving Ave and back to campus, operating to about 3AM. No James St route this fall; makes sense because students who live that far from campus probably have a car. Also, students can no longer ride free on route #240 all the way to Nob Hill apartments, only to the Jamesville Rd. area. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionbuslover Posted September 11, 2020 Report Share Posted September 11, 2020 Recently, The Post Standard/Syracuse.com editorial board expressed their opinion about the retirement of CEO Rick Lee and how the Centro board handled the hiring of the former board chairman as his replacement without a replacement search. Centro board members who approved the hire feel the pandemic necessitated the rather hasty hire. I agree with the board on the point that a formal search for candidates would've been worthwhile. This set off a letter to the editor by one of the city's common councilors calling for Centro to redesign the system to better serve CNY. It's encouraging to know that at least one elected official knows Centro could better address its shortcomings. Centro's board responded with their own letter to the editor showing their full support of the new CEO Brian Schultz exclaiming his dedication to the communities served by Centro and revealed they are committed to addressing rider's number one request of increased service along the busiest routes. Along with a new downtown circulator; these improvements would be the biggest service increase in 20 years and should be coming in 2021. I came across this blog: https://inthesalt.city/. I can't tell who or what organization is behind it. They have some thoughtful posts that pretty much sums up all the ways Centro could improve the network if it had proper funding. While the system will always suffer from it's hub and spoke nature, Centro historically had frequent service. Which is important to any transit network regardless if it's grid based system or a spoke and hub system. Run the buses where people are to the places people actually want to go and do so frequently and watch the ridership grow. I'm sure the staff at Centro knows this and hopefully the community supports them in their efforts to improve the service and naturally the quality of life for many in the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted November 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 Centro has received three new 40-foot CNG buses from Gillig, numbered 2020-2022. Bus #2020 has four wheelchair securement positions instead of the normal two positions and will be available for Carrier Dome shuttles and other special event services (similar to what Orion V #9977 was used for prior to its retirement). These buses also have a restyled roof tank enclosure that goes all the way to the back of the roof. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionbuslover Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 It's a little disappointing that Centro is slowly becoming an Gillig outfit. I know smaller systems seem to have an affinity for Gillig, but the styling of their buses is just so plain Jane. When the Orion VII's come up for replacement, hopefully New Flyer of Nova can find a way in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edison Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 10 hours ago, orionbuslover said: It's a little disappointing that Centro is slowly becoming an Gillig outfit. I know smaller systems seem to have an affinity for Gillig, but the styling of their buses is just so plain Jane. When the Orion VII's come up for replacement, hopefully New Flyer of Nova can find a way in. I agree. Eldorado is winning some small contracts that compete with Gillig, like PG County-The Bus, Central Maryland Reginal Transit to name a couple. I thought (just speculation) Gillig was attractive to Centro because they had the option of purchasing 30ft, 35ft, and 40ft buses from one manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionbuslover Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 15 hours ago, edison said: I thought (just speculation) Gillig was attractive to Centro because they had the option of purchasing 30ft, 35ft, and 40ft buses from one manufacturer. Never thought of it like that. That does make things like maintenence easier. If Gillig would just get rid of its older styling and only offer the BRT styling they would finally be cooking with gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
map.man (Darrin) Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 As one that would roll his eyes about the "heritage trolley" styling, I do have to agree that it's a slight selling point on visitors to cities, being on a trolley-style replica over a BRT styled bus. Has any BRT-styled bus (in any of the big manufacturers) managed to do a replica trolley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionbuslover Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 I think Gillig is the only bus manufacturer that offers trolley replicas. Centro doesn't operate any, but there is a private company that uses trolley replicas for a SU shuttle around the main campus. Gillig's BRT styling is just a sleeker front end cap. It's more rounded/curved, compared to the squared/flat traditional cap. Those sleeker style elements would be lost on a trolley replica because the front end cap (and side skirts) needs to replicate the trolley look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVTArider Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 48 minutes ago, map.man (Darrin) said: As one that would roll his eyes about the "heritage trolley" styling, I do have to agree that it's a slight selling point on visitors to cities, being on a trolley-style replica over a BRT styled bus. Has any BRT-styled bus (in any of the big manufacturers) managed to do a replica trolley? Someone does operate trolley-esque Nova LFS. I think they were just wrapped regular buses though. There were also those C30LF 'trolleys' in Fort Worth, I'm not sure how extensive the styling was on them beyond the paint and bell on the roof. if there were demand I'm sure either Nova or NFI could cook up something. The key components seem to be dark green livery, gaudy old-timey fake window frame wrap, a bell, possibly some 'wood' trim slats tacked on the side, and the most uncomfortable wood benches you can find installed on the interior for seating. Oh, and bonus points for gold chrome handrails/stanchions. Then there's the ElDo thing... https://chicagonorthwest.com/schaumburg-pace-unveil-new-woodfield-trolleys/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6025 Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, MVTArider said: Someone does operate trolley-esque Nova LFS That would be Belleville, ON I think. --- Tyler, Texas has operated Phantoms and RTS in trolley replica wraps IIRC and I've seen photos of Orion 1s among others styled as trolleys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edison Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 On 11/11/2020 at 11:35 AM, map.man (Darrin) said: Has any BRT-styled bus (in any of the big manufacturers) managed to do a replica trolley? Does this count?? I see MVTArider has something similar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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