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One of the reason NFI is doing poorly in the BRT market is that it didn't have a CNG or LNG version avaialble. Santa Monica's Big Blue Bus (photo of one appeared in the Denver Post article above) was a great example... BBB wanted to stick with NFI which was the majority of BBB's 40ft fleet. But NFI declined to make the LNG or CNG drivetrain available on their 60ft bus. So BBB end up going to NABI, which they had a real rocky relationship.

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When was that bzcat?

This quote pulled from this board (APTA Expo 2011) leaves me to believe that New Flyer is offering a 60 foot artic with CNG drivetrain now:

"The Xcelsior artic at APTA 2011 was a CNG model. According to the information on the builder plate it was classified as an XN60 CNG Transit with a build date of Sept 2011."

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When was that bzcat?

This quote pulled from this board (APTA Expo 2011) leaves me to believe that New Flyer is offering a 60 foot artic with CNG drivetrain now:

"The Xcelsior artic at APTA 2011 was a CNG model. According to the information on the builder plate it was classified as an XN60 CNG Transit with a build date of Sept 2011."

I think he was refering to before 2011

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There's all sorts of incorrect photos of which bus is being shown in Denver. Here is the real deal.

RTD is looking for feedback on the features commuter buses serving Boulder County should have. The bus on display is destined for San Antonio's transit system and was built to that city's specifications.

Source: http://www.timescall.com/ci_20795577/rtds-bus-rapid-transit-demo-vehicle-display-boulder?source=most_viewed

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When was that bzcat?

This quote pulled from this board (APTA Expo 2011) leaves me to believe that New Flyer is offering a 60 foot artic with CNG drivetrain now:

"The Xcelsior artic at APTA 2011 was a CNG model. According to the information on the builder plate it was classified as an XN60 CNG Transit with a build date of Sept 2011."

This was in 2010, at that time NFI didn't offer a CNG/LNG artic (SoCal Diesel ban anyone?), so instead they got 60BRT's and 40LFW's (all CNG powered)

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http://www.viaprimo.com/FredRoad/Vehicles.aspx

"VIA is planning to purchase 16 Stylized-compressed natural gas (CNG) Bus Rapid Transit vehicles for the launch of service on Fredericksburg Road."

"The Primo vehicles will use a CNG propulsion system. Using this type of power will save on fuel costs and contribute to a cleaner environment by reducing emissions."

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Hi! With Orion's imminent demise, how would you guys diagnose the future of NABI? In my opinion, they are the weakest of the remaining North American bus manufacturers, as their buses seem to have little appeal outside a few core customers like Broward County Transit, Dallas DART, Foothill Transit, LACMTA and NJ Transit. I just wonder how the future will bode for them after orders from these customer are fulfilled. While it's true that it's BRT line (especially the 60-BRT) can attract niche orders from some non-core customers (like Chapel Hill Transit in North Carolina, Nashville MTA, Orlando's LYNX, Puerto Rico's AMA and San Antonio's VIA), it's really hard to immagine a solid future for them if they don't succeed in broadening its customer base.

For comparison (in the US market only), all of NABI's rivals have its unique strengths:

  • New Flyer can rely on massive orders from mega-agencies plus a band of smaller but staunchly loyal agencies (like Austin's Capital Metro, Milwaukee's MCTS, Omnitrans and Phoenix's Valley Metro to name a few)
  • Gillig has a loyal following in a huge diversity of transit, college and shuttle users in every single state but New Jersey.
  • NovaBus is now highly competitive with NFI for mega-agency orders.
  • ElDorado National has a price-competitive profolio of low floor buses targeting operators with less ample budgets.

Comments are welcome as always. Thanks!

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LACMTA has the second largest bus fleet in North America (after New York), so if they are faithful to NABI, I think the company would survive.

LYNX is getting 2 LFS Artic HEVs now, so I don't know what that says about the NABI 60-BRTs they have. They also have a ton of Gilligs.

I think a really huge blemish on the NABI reputation was Chicago's failed 60LFW order. 226 buses rejected due to structural failure = bad news. The 60-BRTs seem to be fine though.

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LACMTA has the second largest bus fleet in North America (after New York), so if they are faithful to NABI, I think the company would survive.

LYNX is getting 2 LFS Artic HEVs now, so I don't know what that says about the NABI 60-BRTs they have. They also have a ton of Gilligs.

I think a really huge blemish on the NABI reputation was Chicago's failed 60LFW order. 226 buses rejected due to structural failure = bad news. The 60-BRTs seem to be fine though.

I been hearing the LACMTA hasnt been happy with NABI lately, kinda shocked as they seemed happy with their NABI's. NABI will be busy the next 2 years finishing the LACMTA, NJT and DART orders!

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I been hearing the LACMTA hasnt been happy with NABI lately, kinda shocked as they seemed happy with their NABI's. NABI will be busy the next 2 years finishing the LACMTA, NJT and DART orders!

NABI will remain as long as they break even with their orders and funds from their parent company back home in Hungary.

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I been hearing the LACMTA hasnt been happy with NABI lately, kinda shocked as they seemed happy with their NABI's. NABI will be busy the next 2 years finishing the LACMTA, NJT and DART orders!

Well, whatever the RFP they went, they are stuck with it!

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For comparison (in the US market only), all of NABI's rivals have its unique strengths:

New Flyer can rely on massive orders from mega-agencies plus a band of smaller but staunchly loyal agencies ... Milwaukee's MCTS,

Actually from what I've heard both NABI and Nova Bus had quite a few questions concerning MCTS' latest bus procurement contract. (The RFP has since been closed so we'll probably find out who gets it in the coming months.) It was also rumored* that MCTS isn't as happy with their D40LFR order as previous orders.

*rumor only, take it for what it's worth, not absolute truth.

At any rate, MCTS may not be as loyal to NFI as we think.

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Actually from what I've heard both NABI and Nova Bus had quite a few questions concerning MCTS' latest bus procurement contract. (The RFP has since been closed so we'll probably find out who gets it in the coming months.) It was also rumored* that MCTS isn't as happy with their D40LFR order as previous orders.

*rumor only, take it for what it's worth, not absolute truth.

At any rate, MCTS may not be as loyal to NFI as we think.

Most systems tend to be loyal to either who can build to the RFP or who wins the lowest compliant bid!

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Actually from what I've heard both NABI and Nova Bus had quite a few questions concerning MCTS' latest bus procurement contract. (The RFP has since been closed so we'll probably find out who gets it in the coming months.) It was also rumored* that MCTS isn't as happy with their D40LFR order as previous orders.

*rumor only, take it for what it's worth, not absolute truth.

At any rate, MCTS may not be as loyal to NFI as we think.

I wouldn't be surprised if MCTS goes with someone other than NFI. But given that they have ordered buses from them since 1996 they might be looking to mix things up a bit. They also have Gillig Advantages for the Ozaukee County routes in their roster, so it'll be surprising if they look into adding Gilligs down the road.

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