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NABI has a new Web site: http://www.nabusind.com/

It now has up to date info as well as Blue Bird commercial buses and Optima buses. It looks like they will remain their own brands. Also Blue Bird's site doesn't list commercial buses anymore.

That's because BB (school buses) and BB (commercial buses), IIRC, no longer have anything to do with one another.

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That's because BB (school buses) and BB (commercial buses), IIRC, no longer have anything to do with one another.

I just hope the Ultra LF junk can be better. Last one when I rode it was raining inside (a/c condenser was leaking), missing light cover, etc. Wasn't a pleasant ride overall and that poor driver can't do any changeover because it was Saturday on a contracted job and lack of manpower. I have to laugh at that.

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  • 10 months later...

I was wondering, is there any reason why NABI is very strong in the CNG bus market, but rather weak in the diesel-electric hybrid bus market?

It seems that New Flyer and Gillig seem to dominate most of the diesel-electric hybrid market in the U.S., however, Orion also has significant market share with its two largest U.S. customers (NYCT and MUNI). NABI, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have much market share in the diesel-electric hybrid market. I think the largest operator of NABI diesel-electric hybrids is RTC Transit (formerly Citizens Area Transit) of Las Vegas, Nevada. However, NABI is very strong in the CNG market (especially in southern California), possibly even surpassing New Flyer. NABI is the only current manufacturer of CNG artics, and they are having great success with it in southern California (where any form of diesel bus, including diesel-electric hybrids, is prohibited).

Is there any reason for this?

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Perhaps that they are pretty recent in entering the hybrid market could be a reason too. NABI only offered the hybrid option for their LFW line in 2008 (perhaps even earlier, 2007) and for their BRT line since introduction I believe. However, they have offered the CNG option for all their vehicles for a while. Most importantly they continue to be the only one offering a CNG low floor artic in North America.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I was wondering, is there any reason why NABI is very strong in the CNG bus market, but rather weak in the diesel-electric hybrid bus market?

It seems that New Flyer and Gillig seem to dominate most of the diesel-electric hybrid market in the U.S., however, Orion also has significant market share with its two largest U.S. customers (NYCT and MUNI). NABI, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have much market share in the diesel-electric hybrid market. I think the largest operator of NABI diesel-electric hybrids is RTC Transit (formerly Citizens Area Transit) of Las Vegas, Nevada. However, NABI is very strong in the CNG market (especially in southern California), possibly even surpassing New Flyer. NABI is the only current manufacturer of CNG artics, and they are having great success with it in southern California (where any form of diesel bus, including diesel-electric hybrids, is prohibited).

Is there any reason for this?

Broward County Transit in Fort Lauderdale, Florida and Westchester County Bee-Line just outside NYC also run NABI 40-LFW diesel-electric hybrids.

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  • 2 months later...
  • Board Admin
INDUSTRY NEWS

September 11, 2009

NABI marks delivery, production milestones

North American Bus Industries Inc. (NABI) marked multiple milestones this week, with order book statistics and production deliveries rolling at a record pace.

NABI recently delivered its 200th 45-foot CompoBus to the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority (Metro) and its 100th standard-floor Model 416 to New Jersey Transit (NJ Transit). Metro also recently ordered 91 more CompoBuses, which marks its fourth follow-on order for the 45-foot low-floor composite buses and brings the total units ordered to 492.

The CompoBus is a high capacity and low maintenance vehicle made from a composite structure produced from resin-reinforced silicon and carbon fiber, which makes it tough to damage and rust- and corrosion-free. NABI delivered 100 buses to Metro two years earlier, then "idled" its composite production plant, later shifting assembly operations to its Alabama facilities. Production was re-started in April of last year and is achieving record volumes, according to the company.

NJ Transit recently put its 100th NABI 416 standard-floor suburban in service and has ordered 250 more, bringing the number ordered by NJ Transit to 500. The first 250 are to be commuter buses with high-back reclining seats. Then, the recently ordered additional 250 will be configured for city transit service. NJ Transit's contract with NABI stipulates additional deliveries of 250 next year; 250 the year after; and 145 in the contract's final year for a total of 1,145 vehicles.

In addition to this week's important delivery milestones and new orders with Metro and NJ Transit, NABI announced it has delivered additional orders for its articulated 60-BRT's (Nashville and Chapel Hill, N.C.); new orders for its 42-BRT (LA Airport and Foothill Transit); and 35-foot and 40-foot low-floor buses to numerous other customers with diesel, diesel-hybrid and CNG propulsion systems.

The increase in deliveries over the past few months represent production volumes not achieved since 2002, while NABI's Metro and NJ Transit contracts are the largest contracts the company has ever secured since it was incorporated in 1992.

Source: http://www.metro-magazine.com/News/Story/2...-on-a-roll.aspx

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  • 2 weeks later...

this news is true yet false...

1. NABI didn't come around until 1997, when they brought out American Ikarus

2. on September 11th, NJ Transit already had up to 136 NABIs in service (so there's no way that they "just" put their 100th bus in service)

3. on the NJT half, their 100th bus was in service this past July (5302)

it just goes down from there....

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this news is true yet false...

1. NABI didn't come around until 1997, when they brought out American Ikarus

I think their reference to NABI being formed in 1992 is based on when Ikarus divested itself of the majority of Ikarus USA, with 75% of shares going to the First Hungary Fund, and 25% being retained by Ikarus. (Previously, Ikarus USA was completely owned by Ikarus itself.) The new company became American Ikarus.

In 1996, Ikarus sold the rest of its shares in American Ikarus to the First Hungary Fund, and the company became NABI.

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  • 5 months later...

Hi! Among America's big-4 heavy duty bus manufacturers, three of them has pretty clear paths ahead. For New Flyer, it's holding on captive giant customers (MBTA, CTA & SEPTA), loyal mid-size TA's (eg. CT Transit, MARTA in Atlanta & MCTS in Milwaukee) plus SORTA the new convert in Cincinati, TA's in regions thats has a penchant for alternative fuel (southern CA, Central Valley & Sacramento area; though Orion is competitive in the second region & dominant in the last) and a few other smaller TA's loyal to it. For Orion, it's NYCMTA, Houston METRO, a few upstate New York TA's & CNG customers in CA and little else. For Gillig, it's the hundreds of small to moderately large TA's throughout the country, particularlly in states that largely favor them (e.g. much of Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington outside Seattle Metro & Oregon to name a few).

When it comes to NABI, it seems the future is way more murky. Starting with it's BRT line, the 60-BRT excells as the only CNG artic in the market and little else, with the DE-hybrid version heavily outsold by New Flyer's LFR/LFA; and there's seem to be very little market for straight clean-diessel hybrids due to the current trend towards hybrids and that most diesel-only TA's don't seem to need artics anyway. If I'm correct, Nashville MTA and Chapel Hill Transit are the only customers for the 60-BRT in DE-hybrid & clean-diesel forms respectively. By the way, Can anyone tell if LACMTA will really order some 65-BRT's?

The 42-BRT seems to be even more a niche product, with the only customers all in LA County so far (LACMTA demos, Foothill Transit and Flyaway LAX). Smaller TA's that want to go stylish generally opt for the Gillig BRT (ocassionally Orion VII NG's or New Flyer LFR's). By the same token, the New Flyer LFA rigids also suffer in sales for the very same reason, with WMATA the only customer for the 37ft. version and it plus Long Beach Transit the only users for the 42-footers. Admittedly, the 62ft. version is somewhat successful, mostly for high profile BRT uses (WMATA's are the only ones in general service use IMHO) Notably, all LFA's regardless of lengths in service so far are either DE or GE hybrids (GE42LFA's in Long Beach)

The same can be said for the 45C-Metro, as LACMTA is pretty much the only fan on this bus with unusual length.

While the 416 is the last mainstream high floor heavy-duty bus available in this country and can rely on a massive NJ Transit order, I have a couple questions on this model:

1. Is it a 40-footer only?

2. Does it offer alternative-propulsion?

If the answer to 2.) is yes, then a wildcard exists for its future, as Dallas's DART is reconsidering its bid for RTS replacements. With the new mayor's favoritism towards CNG buses & DART's notorious resistance against low-floor buses, a CNG/LNG-powered 416 may well be its future standard bus, as it already has the last old-style 416's built before the NJ Transit order (2004 one-door suburban buses)

Turning to the LFW series, by now everyone knows the 60-LFW artic was a huge flop; the company can at least count on loyal customer bases for both the 40-LFW (Broward County Transit, Sun Metro in El Paso and Several Southern CA agencies) and to the lesser degree, the 35-LFW (Arlington ART); and is competitive for CNG buses in the Mid-South Market (Besides Sun Metro, two other Texan TA's in Fort Worth & Beaumount have them and BJCTA in Birmingham, Alabama has ordered a mix of 31-LFW's & 40-LFW's). Besides, Sportran in Shreveport, Louisana and Tulsa Transit in the Oklahoma city of the same name are both knwon to be interested in CNG buses. Together with DART(Dallas), they lack of histories in operating New Flyers or Orions (the last two agencies), geographical proximity (that may leads to operational influence among each other)and mechanical compatibility (for DART) may well give NABI a slight edge in their CNG bus orders. The only drawbacks of the LFW's seem to be late entry of the 29/30ft. segment by the 31-LFW and weakness in the 35-LFW's sales (TA's generally opt for New Flyers for early heavily-duty low-floors at these sizes crica 1995-98, and migrated to Gillig afterwards to such a extent that that new Gilligs are displacing earlier New Flyers at a few TA's, noticibly at PSTA in St. Petersburg/Clearwater) So why did NABI not promote the 35-LFW more vigorously & launch the 31-LFW during the late 1990's together with its 35 & 40-ft. brethens

The more complicated picture, however, lies with the more recently accquired Optima & Blue Bird subsidiaries. Right now, there's a bad market overlap in their main products; as both the Opus & Ultra LF seem to aim at the medium duty 30/35ft. market, a segment heavily contested by ElDorado. Before I move forward,can anyone tell me if these two & the EZ-Rider II MAX are 10 or 12-year buses?

TA's who want to go heavier duty can easily opt for Gillig, who's famously friendly to small TA's and is a dominant player in the 30/35ft. market; and also NABI's own LFW series. In fact, the 31-LFW has recently debuted with LACMTA as replacements for small contractor buses like earlier ElDorado EZ Rider II's.

This leads to another question: Should NABI keep either the Opus or Ultra LF, or discontinue both buses in favor of the 31-LFW?

Another dilemma faced by the Opus is that neither its facelifted version or HEV variant particularlly sells well, with Miami Dade Transit the only user of the former and no known users for the HEV, largely due to the effort by Gillig on the BRT-styled/hybrid sectors Can anyone find a customer for the HEV?

Overall, it seems that the 2008 buses for University of Delaware aside, there seems to be no or very few new orders for both the Opus & Ultra LF. Can anyone confirm or correct me on this count by listing the more recent orders for these types?

As for the Blue Bird division, can anyone tell if the CS series, XCel 102 and Ultra LMB are still produced or not?

The one opportunity for the Opus seems to be the trolley replica derivative, a sector that has seen vigorous pushes from Gillig at the expense of Optima's own AH-28 American Heritage trolley replica (Please put the purist sentiment on hold just for this thread, as the Opus & Gillig LF trolley replicas are both major upgrades from their truck-based brethens like the AH-28, with improved rides & wheelchair accessibility) Can anyone tell why Optima is not pushing harder in this market?

While I apologize for my thread's length, I hope everyone would enjoy my in-depth analysis of one of the big-4 American transit bus builders. Can anyone also shed some light into my questions raised above? Thanks!

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"As for the Blue Bird division, can anyone tell if the CS series, XCel 102 and Ultra LMB are still produced or not?"

The Xcel and Ultra LMB are no longer in production. Word has it that Nabi will drop the Ultra LF due to lack of interest, and mechanical issues that properties are having with them. As for the Opus I haven't heard of any new orders besides Pueblo who recently took delivery of 9 Under 35ft buses.

James Roach

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  • Board Admin
By the way, Can anyone tell if LACMTA will really order some 65-BRT's?

While the 416 is the last mainstream high floor heavy-duty bus available in this country and can rely on a massive NJ Transit order, I have a couple questions on this model:

1. Is it a 40-footer only?

2. Does it offer alternative-propulsion?

Overall, it seems that the 2008 buses for University of Delaware aside, there seems to be no or very few new orders for both the Opus & Ultra LF. Can anyone confirm or correct me on this count by listing the more recent orders for these types?

Didn't LACMTA have some 65BRTs or was that Foothill Transit?

1. The old 416 (also known as the 40SFW) was 40 feet only so I would assume this would be the same.

2. I couldn't find anything on their website or brochure about alternative propulsion, but I guess if there is enough demand for something it could get built. Of course I don't know if they had built any alternatively propelled high-floor buses in the past?

CTA had an order for 45 Optima Opus buses in 2006. That's about the last large order I know of. The Ultra LF I don't think has ever been purchased in large quantities. Milton Transit in Ontario had some but is replacing them with D40LFs I believe.

Does anyone have pictures of the 31-LFW? Would definitely be interesting to see.

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Didn't LACMTA have some 65BRTs or was that Foothill Transit?

1. The old 416 (also known as the 40SFW) was 40 feet only so I would assume this would be the same.

2. I couldn't find anything on their website or brochure about alternative propulsion, but I guess if there is enough demand for something it could get built. Of course I don't know if they had built any alternatively propelled high-floor buses in the past?

CTA had an order for 45 Optima Opus buses in 2006. That's about the last large order I know of. The Ultra LF I don't think has ever been purchased in large quantities. Milton Transit in Ontario had some but is replacing them with D40LFs I believe.

Does anyone have pictures of the 31-LFW? Would definitely be interesting to see.

LACMTA only had one 65-BRT bus but according to the Wiki, they are ordering---I believe---up to 100 of those buses.

The old 416 and the new 416 bus is indeed 40' ONLY and unless otherwise noted on the NABI website, it looks like diesel only.

I only saw one pic of a 31-LFW CNG bus for LACMTA on BusChat. Here's the pic of it.

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The old 416 and the new 416 bus is indeed 40' ONLY and unless otherwise noted on the NABI website, it looks like diesel only.

NABI's website lists the 416 as available in diesel, CNG, LNG, and diesel-electric hybrid configurations. http://www.nabusind.com/NABI/nabi-416-stan...floor-specs.htm

I only saw one pic of a 31-LFW CNG bus for LACMTA on BusChat. Here's the pic of it.

Not bad looking at all, I must say!

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LACMTA only had one 65-BRT bus but according to the Wiki, they are ordering---I believe---up to 100 of those buses.

The old 416 and the new 416 bus is indeed 40' ONLY and unless otherwise noted on the NABI website, it looks like diesel only.

I only saw one pic of a 31-LFW CNG bus for LACMTA on BusChat. Here's the pic of it.

It needs chrome rims then it would look better.

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  • Board Admin
NABI's website lists the 416 as available in diesel, CNG, LNG, and diesel-electric hybrid configurations. http://www.nabusind.com/NABI/nabi-416-stan...floor-specs.htm

Not bad looking at all, I must say!

Whoops, wasn't looking closely on that page - thought it was just a bunch of more specifications. :P

I agree - neat looking little bus. Thanks for linking the photo HoustonMETROFan!

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As for the Optima Opus, they did seem to be quite popular in the early 2000s, however, sales have seemed to slow down in recent years. I think Hampton Roads Transit in southeastern Virginia was going to buy some Optima Opus HEVs, however, they ended up purchasing 31-foot Gillig BRT HEVs instead.

FYI, ABQ RIDE's remaining SLFs should be elgible for replacement next year, as they were built in 2001. If ABQ RIDE does tender out a contract for 30/35-foot buses, I think NABI could have a chance (either with the Opus or the 31/35-LFW, depending if ABQ RIDE specifies medium-duty or heavy-duty buses), as ABQ RIDE's options with New Flyer do not cover buses smaller than 40 feet. It would be very interesting to see what will ABQ RIDE choose to replace their remaining SLFs. The Neoplans will probably be replaced by more New Flyer DE40LFRs, however, there is a slight chance that ABQ RIDE may choose to tender that contract out for bid as well, especially now that Greg Payne is no longer in charge.

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