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Valley Metro (Phoenix)

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Hi guys,

Here are a couple pictures of 6669 which can frequently be found operating on the 72:

Photo0220.jpg

Photo0221.jpg

Personally, I like this new livery a lot and I am curious as to why the other L40LFR's currently in production are in the old livery!

The interior of this bus is very different from any of the other restyled New Flyers in the Valley Metro fleet; the seats seem to be made out of that recycled fabric like 6667/8 but with a different pattern. Also it has pull chords like the D40LFR's and the early C40LFR's!

Do the 2009 New Flyer L40LFRs run on the Route 72 frequently

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It's hard to say because they're used on all Tempe routes now. If you're looking to catch one the best thing to do would be to just wait at Tempe Transit Center because one will eventually show up on the 48, 65, 66, or 72. Or you could wait at Arizona Mills Mall for a 48, 56 or 77 because I frequently see them down there.

For most daytime runs during the week, the 72 is pretty much just DE60LFR's though. Anything gets on there during the evening and weekend runs, although lately I've only really noticed the new C40LFR's being used.

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It's hard to say because they're used on all Tempe routes now. If you're looking to catch one the best thing to do would be to just wait at Tempe Transit Center because one will eventually show up on the 48, 65, 66, or 72. Or you could wait at Arizona Mills Mall for a 48, 56 or 77 because I frequently see them down there.

For most daytime runs during the week, the 72 is pretty much just DE60LFR's though. Anything gets on there during the evening and weekend runs, although lately I've only really noticed the new C40LFR's being used.

Speaking of the DE60LFRs, are any still running on the 77? I remember the two initial routes for the DE60LFRs were the 72 and 77.

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Yes they can be seen on the 77 especially during peak runs, but they're mostly used on the 72.

One thing I've noticed is that Tempe only uses its 60 footers when the route is expected to be busy; they switch them out for shorter buses when the route calms down. But Mesa will throw a 60 footer (NABI 60BRT or New Flyer D62LFA) on a route all day long regardless of how busy it is. I once had a purple LINK branded D62LFA show up on the 30 (and it was empty).

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I wonder when the new RPTA C40LFRs will be delivered, and what differences will they have from the newest Tempe buses. Since they are most likely replacing the Nova RTS fleet, they will likely be in a semi-suburban config, although I don't know if they will have a rear door or not. Also, I wonder if they will have TwinVision Silver Smart signs, since RPTA seems to have a preference for TwinVision over Luminator. I presume the fleet numbers will be 6714-6733.

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Add 6703 to the mix of new buses delivered to the city of Tempe. Saw it on Monday at the Chandler Fashion Center operating Route 81.

Stalwart23

I saw 6706 on the 72, and 6698 on the 66 earlier in the week!

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I just got some info on some of the specs of the upcoming RPTA C40LFRs. The buses will have one door like the Nova RTS buses they are replacing, and the destination signs will be Luminator Horizon White. The one door isn't surprising, however, I am surprised that the RPTA chose Luminator for this order, since historically they had a preference for TwinVision.

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I just got some info on some of the specs of the upcoming RPTA C40LFRs. The buses will have one door like the Nova RTS buses they are replacing, and the destination signs will be Luminator Horizon White. The one door isn't surprising, however, I am surprised that the RPTA chose Luminator for this order, since historically they had a preference for TwinVision.

So since this order is strictly to replace the Nova buses, are there any plans to replace the RPTA's NABI 40LFWs anytime soon?

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So since this order is strictly to replace the Nova buses, are there any plans to replace the RPTA's NABI 40LFWs anytime soon?

I presume the RPTA might place an order sometime next year. I think the RPTA has recently extended its contract with New Flyer, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see another order next year. Since the RPTA NABI 40-LFW CNGs were built in 2001, they will be fully eligible for replacement next year as they will be 12 years old.

Speaking of contracts, I wonder what is going on with the Phoenix contract. Last June, I was told that New Flyer was the only manufacturer who submitted a bid, however, the City of Phoenix website still hasn't posted any contract award information on their procurement site.

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The one door isn't surprising, however, I am surprised that the RPTA chose Luminator for this order, since historically they had a preference for TwinVision.

I think the one door is surprising, since you lose operational flexibility. The only express route near me is (was) 540, which was typically a D40LFR or a 2009 C40LFR (rarely a NABI BRT). Once that bus gets done with its single one-way revenue trip in the morning, it deadheads back to the barn. For a single door bus, that bus will sit until afternoon rush. A conventional transit can be used anywhere anytime; I see D40LFRs (and C40LFRs) on during the day on Chandler Blvd. regularly.

It could push the new buses to Discount Cab, as those buses are only used in express service anyway, but I don't think there is CNG at that location.

I presume the RPTA might place an order sometime next year. I think the RPTA has recently extended its contract with New Flyer, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see another order next year. Since the RPTA NABI 40-LFW CNGs were built in 2001, they will be fully eligible for replacement next year as they will be 12 years old.

Speaking of contracts, I wonder what is going on with the Phoenix contract. Last June, I was told that New Flyer was the only manufacturer who submitted a bid, however, the City of Phoenix website still hasn't posted any contract award information on their procurement site.

I don't see any plans for replacement RPTA buses yet; I don't know what bucket 6157-6163 belong to, but I haven't seen them since 2011 Tempe buses arrived. The ex-Mesa 40-LFWs are 2000 models and are ready to go (and some have gone).

Phoenix is kind of moot right now since the city council is in summer recess, so it can't approve anything.

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Speaking of the NABIs, I wonder which particular fleet numbers have been retired. I know that all of the Scottsdale-owned NABIs that operated for Tempe have been retired early this year, but what else?

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Speaking of the NABIs, I wonder which particular fleet numbers have been retired. I know that all of the Scottsdale-owned NABIs that operated for Tempe have been retired early this year, but what else?

I showed 6157-6163 and 6251-6254 as RPTA...of those I 've seen only 6251/3/4 (plus 6255-6261 [scottsdale]) go to auction. I've seen 6 of the CNG NABIs go to auction, but I don't have a tie-up for serial numbers.

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I showed 6157-6163 and 6251-6254 as RPTA...of those I 've seen only 6251/3/4 (plus 6255-6261 [scottsdale]) go to auction. I've seen 6 of the CNG NABIs go to auction, but I don't have a tie-up for serial numbers.

As far as I know, RPTA no longer operates any LNG NABIs; they have all been transferred to Tempe. However, RPTA might possibly still own the buses.

Also, speaking of Scottsdale, according to this link, some 2001 RPTA NABIs will be transferred to Scottsdale as a temporary replacement for the ElDorado E-Z Riders:

http://www.scottsdal...Asset45690.aspx

Then next month, the RPTA will purchase 14 buses for Scottsdale through a Flordia co-operative contract, where they will be delivered next year. I wonder who is the manufacturer. If I could guess, I would think it is Gillig, since Gillig is the predominant manufacturer in Florida. An additional order is planned for 2014 and should be delivered in 2015.

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As far as I know, RPTA no longer operates any LNG NABIs; they have all been transferred to Tempe. However, RPTA might possibly still own the buses.

Also, speaking of Scottsdale, according to this link, some 2001 RPTA NABIs will be transferred to Scottsdale as a temporary replacement for the ElDorado E-Z Riders:

http://www.scottsdal...Asset45690.aspx

Then next month, the RPTA will purchase 14 buses for Scottsdale through a Flordia co-operative contract, where they will be delivered next year. I wonder who is the manufacturer. If I could guess, I would think it is Gillig, since Gillig is the predominant manufacturer in Florida. An additional order is planned for 2014 and should be delivered in 2015.

Correct, RPTA owns them but they were operated from Tempe garage (like 6633-6647). There are a dozen of the NABIs I have not seen go through auction yet, although I haven't seen them on the road either. At my count, there are two Scottsdale EZ Riders left.

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I just got an email from RPTA, and have learned that the following fleet numbers will be transferred to Scottsdale:

6265

6269

6277

6278

6280

Also, the manufacturer for the new trolleys is Gillig, as I expected.

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BTW, I learned today from someone from ADOT who recently visited the Tempe facility that 6633-6647 are now in fact owned by the City of Tempe. This is the reason why they now operate all Tempe routes instead of just the 72 and 81. However, they do not have Tempe in Motion stickers on them, and perhaps never will if the proposed unification of the Tempe and RPTA divisions is approved.

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BTW, I learned today from someone from ADOT who recently visited the Tempe facility that 6633-6647 are now in fact owned by the City of Tempe. This is the reason why they now operate all Tempe routes instead of just the 72 and 81. However, they do not have Tempe in Motion stickers on them, and perhaps never will if the proposed unification of the Tempe and RPTA divisions is approved.

Just saw 6637 - says OWNED BY: RPTA

A "sale" would not make fiscal sense; an intergovernmental "loan" would. And I have seen these buses running on other Tempe routes for quite some time (well before 6677).

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So, has anyone seen any new RPTA C40LFRs in service yet? As stated earlier, they will have only one door, which will be the easiest way to tell them apart from the newest Tempe C40LFRs.

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So, has anyone seen any new RPTA C40LFRs in service yet? As stated earlier, they will have only one door, which will be the easiest way to tell them apart from the newest Tempe C40LFRs.

I thought RPTA uses the color scheme that is on 6667/6668. In a Tempe transit presentation the 6667 color scheme was identified as the "RPTA" scheme while the 6669 scheme was identified as the "Tempe" scheme. Also, RPTA had painted some Link buses into the silver "RPTA" scheme after 6669 was delivered.

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The 20 C40LFR RPTA Express buses are silver from nose to tail, similar to 6667-6668. They feature a single (front) door, front door ramp, flush glass windows, overhead luggage racks (only extending from rear of the wheelchair seating area to the rear step), and high-back, reclining seats. Fleet numbers 6714-6733.

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The 20 C40LFR RPTA Express buses are silver from nose to tail, similar to 6667-6668. They feature a single (front) door, front door ramp, flush glass windows, overhead luggage racks (only extending from rear of the wheelchair seating area to the rear step), and high-back, reclining seats. Fleet numbers 6714-6733.

Have they entered service yet? Please let me know for I can add them to the current fleet.

BTW, I wonder what is going on with the City of Phoenix contract. Months have passed since the RFP deadline and they still have yet to award a contract. FYI, Phoenix is sticking with the 2006 color scheme for its new buses.

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BTW, I wonder what is going on with the City of Phoenix contract. Months have passed since the RFP deadline and they still have yet to award a contract. FYI, Phoenix is sticking with the 2006 color scheme for its new buses.

I think it is reconsidering LNG. The city hired a fuel consultant to analyze fuel options for the bus fleet. There was some discussion as to weather to convert some of the newer NABIs to CNG, but I don't think we'll see this. Both Phoenix and Tempe missed its purchase guarantees to the LNG vendor for the last two fiscal years, so they were either forced to pay a penalty or renegotiate. Phoenix added a year to the contract at a higher price (but better than the penalty); I'm not sure what Tempe did.

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I think it is reconsidering LNG. The city hired a fuel consultant to analyze fuel options for the bus fleet. There was some discussion as to weather to convert some of the newer NABIs to CNG, but I don't think we'll see this. Both Phoenix and Tempe missed its purchase guarantees to the LNG vendor for the last two fiscal years, so they were either forced to pay a penalty or renegotiate. Phoenix added a year to the contract at a higher price (but better than the penalty); I'm not sure what Tempe did.

I don't expect Tempe to purchase any more LNG buses. That L40LFR order I think was just an experiment to determine if they should go with CNG or LNG for future purchases, and it looks like they decided on CNG.

As for Phoenix, none of the three facilities are equipped for CNG, and thus it would cost the city lots of money should they decide on going with CNG. I personally think for Phoenix, diesel-electric hybrids would be a better option since it wouldn't require investing in the infrastructure for a new fuel type.

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Phoenix added a year to the contract at a higher price (but better than the penalty); I'm not sure what Tempe did.

Tempe signed a new 3-year contract with the vendor, plus paid $700K to settle the previous contract.

Lot of discussion on cost vs benefit (i.e. mpg) with repect to hybrids. The BAe and Allison systems work differently, and NY is converting some of its Orion hybrids back to diesel.

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