Valley Metro (Phoenix)

[Ztonyg]

It appears that with the schedule change, there has been a move of some buses around in the Phoenix divisions.

I spotted D40LFs on the 90, 106, 122, 138, and 170. There also was a higher than usual number of C40LFRs on the 0, 8, and 19 (even though I am aware that many of these routes have runs from both Phoenix North and Phoenix South but last week there were 0 C40LFRs assigned to route 0 and now there are several).

Based upon my observations, it appears that Phoenix North sent approximately 25 2014 C40LFRs with fleet numbers in the 6061 - 608? range to Phoenix South in exchange for approximately 25 2007 D40LFs numbered 653? - 655?.

I'm curious if they're going to keep the C40LFRs and D40LFs split between all 3 Phoenix divisions or if Phoenix North will eventually have all of the Transdev share of D40LFs and Phoenix South will have all of the Transdev share of C40LFRs. I'm also curious how this will affect, if at all, the assignment of the 2016 Gilligs.

 

[The XDE60]

2 minutes ago, Ztonyg said:

It appears that with the schedule change, there has been a move of some buses around in the Phoenix divisions.

I spotted D40LFs on the 90, 106, 122, 138, and 170. There also was a higher than usual number of C40LFRs on the 0, 8, and 19 (even though I am aware that many of these routes have runs from both Phoenix North and Phoenix South but last week there were 0 C40LFRs assigned to route 0 and now there are several).

Based upon my observations, it appears that Phoenix North sent approximately 25 2014 C40LFRs with fleet numbers in the 6061 - 608? range to Phoenix South in exchange for approximately 25 2007 D40LFs numbered 653? - 655?.

I'm curious if they're going to keep the C40LFRs and D40LFs split between all 3 Phoenix divisions or if Phoenix North will eventually have all of the Transdev share of D40LFs and Phoenix South will have all of the Transdev share of C40LFRs. I'm also curious how this will affect, if at all, the assignment of the 2016 Gilligs.

 

Yeah, I also saw 5077 on 44N this morning.

[Flyer59]

It's possible that vehicles were moved, bus also Monday marked the start of the service changes and it may be that some of the runs may have been re-distributed between the north and south garages in preparation for the service expansion.

[Ztonyg]

54 minutes ago, Flyer59 said:

It's possible that vehicles were moved, bus also Monday marked the start of the service changes and it may be that some of the runs may have been re-distributed between the north and south garages in preparation for the service expansion.

It's possible. I know that the north and south garages share a lot of routes (with some runs distributed to the south garage and others distributed to the north garage). However, I wasn't under the impression that the 90/106/122/138/170 were shared routes and all of these routes had D40LFs assigned yesterday.

Also, C40LFRs appear to be more common on the 35/19/8/0/16 than they used to be (and these routes are primarily operated by the south garage) both today and yesterday.  

Also, where are the Gilligs?

I had the day off today and I rode all around the system (and on every division's buses) and I didn't see a single Gillig.

I saw a few 1998 NABIs on routes 41 and 29, several 1999 NABIs on the 7, 90, and 106, the regular allotment of 2002 NABIs on all of the Transdev Phoenix routes, and C40LFRs and D40LFs also spread throughout the Transdev Phoenix routes. However, I haven't seen (or ridden on) a single Gillig while spending time at Central Station, at Sunnyslope, and at Metrocenter. 

[Flyer59]

11 hours ago, Ztonyg said:

It's possible. I know that the north and south garages share a lot of routes (with some runs distributed to the south garage and others distributed to the north garage). However, I wasn't under the impression that the 90/106/122/138/170 were shared routes and all of these routes had D40LFs assigned yesterday.

Also, C40LFRs appear to be more common on the 35/19/8/0/16 than they used to be (and these routes are primarily operated by the south garage) both today and yesterday.  

Also, where are the Gilligs?

I had the day off today and I rode all around the system (and on every division's buses) and I didn't see a single Gillig.

I saw a few 1998 NABIs on routes 41 and 29, several 1999 NABIs on the 7, 90, and 106, the regular allotment of 2002 NABIs on all of the Transdev Phoenix routes, and C40LFRs and D40LFs also spread throughout the Transdev Phoenix routes. However, I haven't seen (or ridden on) a single Gillig while spending time at Central Station, at Sunnyslope, and at Metrocenter. 

I did spot 5121 on the 39 several weeks ago.

[3we]

6283 was auctioned off for $900 last weekend. What a bargain......

[Ztonyg]

4 hours ago, 3we said:

6283 was auctioned off for $900 last weekend. What a bargain......

Interesting.

Where there any 1998s or 1999s auctioned off last week? 

I find it interesting that they'd auction off a 2002 before they're finished replacing the 1998s and 1999s.

 

[northwesterner]

On 4/17/2016 at 6:24 PM, northwesterner said:

 

Regarding the artic runs on the 30/45/61/77. I rarely make it south of Broadway these days, but I regularly see the artics on the 30 and occasionally on the 45. The 30 always/only runs artics that are from Mesa (and only DE60LFRs, at that), and the couple artics I've seen on the 45 are the same situation. So there isn't much of Tempe provides two artic runs, Mesa provides two more. 

 

Quoting myself here but... saw a trip yesterday on the 30 that prior to the schedule change was always operated with a Mesa-based DE60LFR. Yesterday that trip had 8079, which has been a Tempe based coach and indeed had Tempe sign programming. I wonder if they shifted all the DE60LFRs back to Tempe, and simply moved the artic runs on the east-west routes to all be out of Tempe, or if the fleet is still split, and they just changed garage assignments. The last two driver bid periods there have been very few / no runs out of Tempe using artics on local routes.

[3we]

4 hours ago, Ztonyg said:

Interesting.

Where there any 1998s or 1999s auctioned off last week? 

I find it interesting that they'd auction off a 2002 before they're finished replacing the 1998s and 1999s.

 

No. Only 6283 and a "Glendale onboard" El Dorado (which sold for $6400).  6283 was a non-runner, and it looks like it has been for a while. By the way, the VIN on it inidcates that it is a 2001.

[ABQ RIDE]

6 hours ago, northwesterner said:

Quoting myself here but... saw a trip yesterday on the 30 that prior to the schedule change was always operated with a Mesa-based DE60LFR. Yesterday that trip had 8079, which has been a Tempe based coach and indeed had Tempe sign programming. I wonder if they shifted all the DE60LFRs back to Tempe, and simply moved the artic runs on the east-west routes to all be out of Tempe, or if the fleet is still split, and they just changed garage assignments. The last two driver bid periods there have been very few / no runs out of Tempe using artics on local routes.

I saw a DE60LFR with Mesa sign programming on the 61 today, so I am not sure if they have been shifted around or not.

[Ztonyg]

I was in downtown around 5:15 p.m. or so last night to meet a friend for a drink before the Diamondbacks game and I got a chance to see the buses used for the express runs.

As far as the East Valley express runs, equipment used was all over the map. In the few minutes I was there I saw 2 D60LFAs (8513 and 8519 (which was still in LINK livery)), a NABI 60BRT, a New Flyer DE60LFR, a "suburban" C40LFR, a green Tempe C40LFRs, and a L40LFR.

The hodgepodge of buses leads me to believe would make some level of sense to standardize the express fleet into the D40LFAs, D60LFAs, suburban C40LFRs, and the BRT style XN60s (once the LINK routes are discontinued).

I also saw the elusive Gillig 5121 in service on a N/B Route 8 run.

Some other notes:

- Several buses yesterday from multiple divisions (ValuTrans, Tempe, and Phoenix-South) displayed "Have a Nice Day" on their destination signs. In the past I'd seen this with the Mesa division buses but not necessarily other divisions.

- While not pictured, Phoenix's NABIs (and even their D40LFs) are looking really ragged (especially on the outside). There are some absolutely filthy 2001/2002 NABI 40LFWs that appear to have not been washed in weeks. Also, most of the NABIs seem to have a combination of chipped paint, missing exterior paneling, malfunctioning destination signs, etc. Even a few D40LFs appear to suffer from this neglect. 

Strangely enough, I've ridden on several Phoenix buses over the past 2 weeks and the interiors of most of these buses is actually in pretty good shape. They've been clean with working air conditioning and for the most part a working Route Scout. The buses also seem to ride just fine. However, it's clear from the condition of these buses (especially the NABIs) that Phoenix doesn't intend to keep them very much longer.

Here are some photos I was able to catch: 

 

5 hours ago, 3we said:

No. Only 6283 and a "Glendale onboard" El Dorado (which sold for $6400).  6283 was a non-runner, and it looks like it has been for a while. By the way, the VIN on it inidcates that it is a 2001.

They may actually all be 2001s.

I remember reading that some of them were delivered in 2001 (especially the lower numbered ones) with the rest of them delivered in early 2002. It seems like a similar delivery schedule to the Phoenix C40LFRs.

I did a decent amount of busfanning this week (as I had some time off of work) and I managed to ride on 6282, 6286, and 6287 so I was shocked that 6283 was already retired.

 

[northwesterner]

11 hours ago, Ztonyg said:

 

- While not pictured, Phoenix's NABIs (and even their D40LFs) are looking really ragged (especially on the outside). There are some absolutely filthy 2001/2002 NABI 40LFWs that appear to have not been washed in weeks. Also, most of the NABIs seem to have a combination of chipped paint, missing exterior paneling, malfunctioning destination signs, etc. Even a few D40LFs appear to suffer from this neglect.

Buses from all 3 Phoenix divisions pretty much look like garbage on the exterior, all the time.

The First buses are not better or worse than the TransDev buses. They all look bad. Some of the artics have had unrepaired oil leaks that spit up all over the rear of the coach, weren't washed off, and the oil has baked into the paint. They're never going to get those buses to be shiny again. The D40LFs are already looking dull and faded - do they even use a wax of some kind in the wash rack - and they aren't that old.

By comparison the Mesa/Tempe coaches are immaculate.

[Ztonyg]

3 minutes ago, northwesterner said:

Buses from all 3 Phoenix divisions pretty much look like garbage on the exterior, all the time.

The First buses are not better or worse than the TransDev buses. They all look bad. Some of the artics have had unrepaired oil leaks that spit up all over the rear of the coach, weren't washed off, and the oil has baked into the paint. They're never going to get those buses to be shiny again. The D40LFs are already looking dull and faded - do they even use a wax of some kind in the wash rack - and they aren't that old.

By comparison the Mesa/Tempe coaches are immaculate.

I'd actually argue that all of the coaches owned or operated by the RPTA (Mesa/Tempe/ValuTrans) look consistently immaculate. These buses appear to get thorough cleanings of both the interior and exterior. It's amazing how great even their 2006 C40LFRs and NABI 60BRTs (their oldest buses) look.

Phoenix has always been a mixed bag. Historically, Phoenix-South kept its buses looking fairly immaculate as well. Phoenix-North was a slight step below Phoenix-South, and the Phoenix - West / Laidlaw division usually had the crappiest buses. The 1994 and 1996 D40LFs that Phoenix - West operated were pure trash inside and outside in their final days.

It seems that all Phoenix divisions went downhill around the time of the 2008 service cuts (which was also the same time that the "full amount must be paid" stickers went up on the Phoenix buses).

I'd actually argue that the First Transit appears to take better care of their buses than either of the Transdev divisions.

 

[MAX BRT]

Clean and quiet: Scottsdale considers electric buses to replace trolley fleet

PHOENIX — Scottsdale residents may have noticed a sleek silver bus rolling through town lately as the city is evaluating electric buses to replace older vehicles in its trolley fleet.

Dunn Transit, who has operated the trolley service in Scottsdale for more than 25 years, teamed up with BYD Motors, Inc., a maker of electric vehicles, to test out the environmentally-conscious option.

“The region has an air pollution problem that’s been documented, and electric buses could be part of the solution,” Scottsdale Transportation Planning and Transit Operations Manager Madeline Clemann said in a release. “Anything we can do to help with the air pollution problem is a good thing for Scottsdale to contribute to.”

(City of Scottsdale Photo)

The upfront cost of the electric buses is about 25 percent higher than the diesel hybrid buses currently used. Uncle Sam pays 80 percent of the cost, and the electric buses are cheaper to run and maintain.

“We use an awful lot of fuel,” Clemann said. “When gas prices were high, our fuel was over $500,000 a year. That cost has dropped with the fuel prices, but we know they’ll go up again.”

The new vehicles Scottsdale is testing are smaller than the current buses — the more narrow shape requires seats to face sideways instead of forward.

A press release on the city’s website said “The city is concerned that the seat arrangement in the smaller electric bus might not be as comfortable as the seats in hybrid buses and is soliciting feedback through an online survey.”

SOURCE: http://ktar.com/story/1044096/clean-and-quiet-scottsdale-considers-electric-buses-to-replace-trolley-fleet/

[The XDE60]

I saw and rode on bus 5128 on the 44S today. It was a good manufacture in quality.

[northwesterner]

I spotted one of the Gilligs on the 0 Central Avenue today.

 

Didn't grab the number as I was turning onto Indian School and the coach was still a block south of the intersection when my light went green.

[3we]

What seemed odd this morning was  8511 on Chandler (156) eastbound at 5am.

 

 

[ABQ RIDE]

It looks like there is the potential for another strike, this time in the East Valley.  It appears that the RPTA has exercised one of their contract extension options with First Transit as of May 19, however, there are some issues that the union cannot agree on with First Transit for the new CBA which is set to expire on June 30.

Note that the RPTA has amended its contract with First Transit to include a minimum service requirement similar to what Phoenix has in their contracts, which requires that First Transit provides a minimum of a Saturday level of service within 5 days of a strike.

[The XDE60]

I actually saw Gillig buses 5132 and 5136 in service on the 44 today.

[Ztonyg]

On 5/25/2016 at 2:06 PM, The XDE60 said:

I actually saw Gillig buses 5132 and 5136 in service on the 44 today.

Looks like they're finally out in force. I saw 5126 in service on the 7 earlier today.

I wonder if some 2002 NABIs will be transferred over to the West division to kill off the 1998 NABIs.

[3we]

At today's auction,  6309 went for $850,  6328 for $850, and 6364 for $300.  A flat bed will be needed for all three.  Apparently last month's sale of 6283 fell through; it was auctioned again today for $1100.

[Ztonyg]

5 hours ago, 3we said:

At today's auction,  6309 went for $850,  6328 for $850, and 6364 for $300.  A flat bed will be needed for all three.  Apparently last month's sale of 6283 fell through; it was auctioned again today for $1100.

So they're auctioning off the 2002s before the remaining 1998s and 1999?

[3we]

[2001s]  

I guess these select few are DOA. Some of the earlier ones have had mid-life overhauls.  I suspect that after a majority of the Gilligs are in service, we'll see larger lots of buses pass the auction block.

[northwesterner]

Also, I tend to think that all of the NABIs, at this point, are all equally awful. If there's no outside reason to retire an older batch over the younger ones (tank expiration, etc), then you might as well get rid of the bad actors and keep the better runners around.

I'm glad I live in the East Valley and rarely have to encounter those NABIs.

[The XDE60]

I actually saw 5145 in service today on the 44S.