Ztonyg Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 With the arrival of the Gilligs, I've tried to pay attention to the bus assignments of the various Phoenix divisions. It appears that the Gilligs are no longer operating out of the Transdev - North division and are solely concentrated at the Transdev - South division. I've yet to see one on a Transdev - North route over the past several weeks but I have seen several on the 0, 7, and 8 and it has been reported that they've been observed on the 44 as well. I know that both North and South share routes but I haven't seen a Gillig on a North only route in several weeks. It appears that there have been no changes to the fleet assignments at the West division at all. I have recently observed several 1998 NABIs on short turn runs of the 17, 29, and 41 as well as on routes 75 and 83. For the North / South divisions, it appears that the following has occurred: - The 1999 NABIs that were in service prior to the arrival of the Gilligs are still in service as of today - Approximately 20 - 25 2014 C40LFRs in the range of 5061 - 508X are operating out of the South division - Approximately 20 - 25 2007 D40LFs in the range of 6533 - 655X are operating out of the North division - The initial Gilligs have replaced 2001/2002 NABIs. There is a very noticeable decrease in the number of 2001/2002 NABIs in service over the past week or so. For example, from 9:00 am to 11:00 am this morning I observed no 2001/2002 NABIs operating on routes 0 or 8. Here are some photos I got today: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztonyg Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 On 5/29/2016 at 11:09 AM, northwesterner said: Also, I tend to think that all of the NABIs, at this point, are all equally awful. If there's no outside reason to retire an older batch over the younger ones (tank expiration, etc), then you might as well get rid of the bad actors and keep the better runners around. I'm glad I live in the East Valley and rarely have to encounter those NABIs. This is what appears to be happening. At least at the onset, the buses most affected by the arrival of the Gilligs are the 2001/2002s. The 1998s and 1999s appear to be out in the same numbers as before, however, the Gilligs have really put a dent into the number of 2001/2002s that were out there (especially today). I'm wondering if mileage has something to do with it. Since the arrival of the 2007 D40LFs and 2007 and 2008 D60LFs, coupled with the 2008 service cuts, the 1998s and 1999s have been running mostly short turns, peak hour fill ins, and have received rather limited off peak usage whereas the 2001/2002s have been constantly running during off peak as well as peak hours. I wouldn't be shocked to see that the remaining 1998s and 1999s have less mileage on them than most of the 2001/2002s. A handful of NABIs will probably survive into next year (due to the October service expansion) but as of the arrival of the Gilligs there were probably only 140 - 150 NABIs in service and with the 120 Gilligs + 20 artics on order there isn't really the need to keep all that many NABIs around. It also looks like there won't be an East Valley bus strike as the contract was ratified: http://www.valleymetro.org/pressreleases/detail/first-transit-east-valley-negotiations-continue Bonus: Some ValuTrans buses near Central Station yesterday: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3we Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 On 6/8/2016 at 9:50 AM, Ztonyg said: - The initial Gilligs have replaced 2001/2002 NABIs. There is a very noticeable decrease in the number of 2001/2002 NABIs in service over the past week or so. For example, from 9:00 am to 11:00 am this morning I observed no 2001/2002 NABIs operating on routes 0 or 8. I looked at an old North/South roster from two years ago). At that point the average mileage on the 1999 NABIs (there were 19 in North, all others were West) was 618,000. For the 2001 NABIs, it was around 640,000+. High timer was 6293 at 729,925 (6350 was a close second). Remember, this was June 2014, so imagine where they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztonyg Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 12 hours ago, 3we said: I looked at an old North/South roster from two years ago). At that point the average mileage on the 1999 NABIs (there were 19 in North, all others were West) was 618,000. For the 2001 NABIs, it was around 640,000+. High timer was 6293 at 729,925 (6350 was a close second). Remember, this was June 2014, so imagine where they are now. I rode 6341 on Friday. Those 2001/2002 NABIs are so beat up now it's not even funny. I always thought that they were decent buses but (especially due to the lack of any kind of maintenance other than the bare minimum to put them in service) it's time for them to be retired. On Thursday I rode 6226 and 6237 and the 1999s are significantly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer59 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Today I spotted 5158 on I10E Rapid, and 6750 on the 108. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3we Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 12 hours ago, Flyer59 said: Today I spotted 5158 on I10E Rapid, and 6750 on the 108. Was 6750 in the silver colors, like 6667/6668? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.1.1 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, 3we said: Was 6750 in the silver colors, like 6667/6668? Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztonyg Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, t.1.1 said: Nope Wow. So it looks like these buses were painted in the LINK livery (yet are being used for local service) and likely will never see LINK service as LINK will be discontinued. They also have silver window frames as opposed to Phoenix's black window frames. It's also interesting that it is signed up for route 75. Route 75 is a Phoenix (and not a Tempe/RPTA route) and this bus will likely never see service on that route unless the bus system is fully integrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
425_480 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 4 hours ago, t.1.1 said: Nope Is anyone else slightly annoyed that each bus order has a slight modification to the Valley Metro Livery? I'm not referring to the Express/RAPID/LINK liveries so much as basic liveries we've seen between 6667-6668, 6676-6713, 5001-5240, and now 6750, for example. Makes the fleet look like a cluttered hodgepodge of vehicles. I know that LACMTA and KCM both do have different colored buses throughout their fleet, however they also use consistent styling throughout making everything appear cohesive. I realize this may partly be due to the varying ownership and management of Valley Metro's divisions, but wouldn't it also be easier for New Flyer and Gillig to not have to paint a different style bus for each order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3we Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 hours ago, 425_480 said: Is anyone else slightly annoyed that each bus order has a slight modification to the Valley Metro Livery? Well, not annoying, but it certainly doesn't help with brand recognition. I'm guessing we won't see any more green Tempe buses; the next Tempe buses will be the EZ-Riders for Orbit, then the replacements for the Compobuses. I assume Orbit will be blue, and the others will be "Valley Metro Express". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northwesterner Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 3 hours ago, 3we said: Well, not annoying, but it certainly doesn't help with brand recognition. I'm guessing we won't see any more green Tempe buses... This. First, I'd forgotten that Tempe/RPTA had a couple of Gilligs coming this year. I wonder if they're running out of Mesa or Tempe. This paint thing is really puzzling. The most recent Phoenix paint looks pretty decent on the C40LFs, but looks awful on the Gilligs. The Tempe green-front paint looks good as well. Either of those could have been selected as the scheme going forward. Instead, the Tempe/RPTA Gilligs are getting a scheme that looks very similar to the Phoenix C40LFs, but still very different. It's truly a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztonyg Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 9 hours ago, northwesterner said: This. First, I'd forgotten that Tempe/RPTA had a couple of Gilligs coming this year. I wonder if they're running out of Mesa or Tempe. This paint thing is really puzzling. The most recent Phoenix paint looks pretty decent on the C40LFs, but looks awful on the Gilligs. The Tempe green-front paint looks good as well. Either of those could have been selected as the scheme going forward. Instead, the Tempe/RPTA Gilligs are getting a scheme that looks very similar to the Phoenix C40LFs, but still very different. It's truly a mess. The problem now is that they still have several dozen buses in the late 1990s - 2004 livery (green and purple with the large "V" on the sides), several hundred buses in the 2006 livery, and then a mish mash of liveries after that for buses delivered 2009 - onward. This tackiness is in addition to the fact that the many Phoenix owned buses are in terrible cosmetic shape due to lack of washing, chipped or scratched paint, oxidization, etc. They really give the impression of an agency that doesn't care. It's probably cost prohibitive for Valley Metro and its agencies, but when Sun Tran in Tucson came out with its latest livery they decided to use wraps to bring the older buses in line with the newer buses. The result is that every bus has the same livery (be it paint or a wrap). As far as these RPTA Gilligs. The wikipedia page says that these were ordered to set up a Route 72 LINK route. The livery is very similar to the LINK livery (even closer to the LINK livery than the Phoenix livery). We know that the LINK routes may be going away, but the LINK connection and original intention may be why they're in that livery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.1.1 Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Here's a collage of all the fixed route designs in the system. Which one is your favorite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3we Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 3 hours ago, t.1.1 said: Which one is your favorite? #3. The green is fading, I assume purple will, too. So I'm getting behind here - when the purchase contracts were set, the plan was for RPTA receiving 3 Gilligs and 3 XN60s (or XD60s) as expansion buses (originally planned for FY15), followed by 62 additional buses for FY18. The latest budget info I've seen shows 15 expansion buses (unspecified size) before July 2017. There were options on these contracts, were some exercised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztonyg Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 In other news, all Phoenix bus routes will operate from 4 a.m. - midnight Monday - Friday and 5 a.m. - 10 p.m. on Saturday and Sunday with at maximum of 30 minute headways 7 days a week. https://www.phoenix.gov/news/publictransit/1361 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3we Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 With yesterday's auction we bid farewell to 6294 ($600), 6297 ($900), 6305 ($750), 6308 ($850), and 6355 ($850). Also that Glendale MST-II finally sold for $6500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northwesterner Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Spotted 6031 and 6125 on the 41 Indian School doing midday base service today. I was surprised to see them outside of peak, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The XDE60 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Given that the Wiki says 1998-1999 NABI buses would retire in a couple days, I don't see them retiring until September at the earliest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztonyg Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 1 hour ago, The XDE60 said: Given that the Wiki says 1998-1999 NABI buses would retire in a couple days, I don't see them retiring until September at the earliest. I'm not sure what the plan is for the NABIs. Prior to the delivery of the Gilligs, there were about 135 - 149 NABIs in service: 25 - 1998s, 30 - 34 1999s, and 80 - 90 2001s. If Phoenix wasn't going to be expanding service in October, I'd say that the better range and reliability of the newer buses could probably allow the 120 Gilligs to retire substantially all of the NABI fleet. However, with the October service expansion, I see them keeping about 50 - 60 NABIs after the Gilligs have all been placed in service. They are scheduled to get 20 New Flyer XD60s and 8 New Flyer XN60s by the end of the year. I can see these replacing about 20 - 30 of the remaining NABIs. So, by the end of the year the NABI fleet could be 30 - 40 buses. What appears likely to happen is that about 50 2001s, 3 1999s (those at the south division), and 25 1998s (at Phoenix - West) will be retired by September with the remainder of the 1999s and 2001s to be retired sometime next year. I think Phoenix West will likely get the highest numbered 2016s (in the 5201 - 5240 range) based upon the current assignments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northwesterner Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Spotted 5162 on the 0-Central. Highest number I've seen in service so far. Notably fewer 2001 NABIs out during the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztonyg Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 4 hours ago, northwesterner said: Spotted 5162 on the 0-Central. Highest number I've seen in service so far. Notably fewer 2001 NABIs out during the day. I saw 5170 on the 0-Central or the 8-7th Ave. today (Can't remember which route) but it was S/B downtown. The highest number I've seen altogether was 5189 which was parked on the side of the West division garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQ RIDE Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 I wonder if the new RPTA Gilligs have Allison B400R transmissions or ZF EcoLife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3we Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 4 hours ago, ABQ RIDE said: I wonder if the new RPTA Gilligs have Allison B400R transmissions or ZF EcoLife. The RPTA buses have ZF transmissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The XDE60 Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Yesterday evening, I saw 5175 (out of service) on the 41. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztonyg Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 4 hours ago, The XDE60 said: Yesterday evening, I saw 5175 (out of service) on the 41. That would mean that the West Division has some in service as well. I am wondering what the breakdown between North / South / West will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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