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The Random Thoughts Thread


buswizard
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9 hours ago, Streety McCarface said:

The biggest concern most traffic engineers would have is whether the floodlights would blind a driver. You'd have to consider things like sunroofs, refraction/reflection in rainy conditions, among so many other things.

Totally agreed, and that's why i mentioned that the floodlights/spotlights would have "blinders" so that the light is concentrated on the walkway and not scattered elsewhere. I think the quarter second where the light hits the car as it passes is almost negligible, even with a sunroof. Its a bit of a general idea, but I think the gist of it I've explained. 

Where it is mounted is a big factor of course, and what I had in mind was something at the top of a traffic light pole. That way elevation is high enough that its no where near a driver's eye line. It obviously wouldn't be something absurdly bright, but something close to the brightness a modern car would provide through it's headlights, as those are subject to strict standards when it comes to illuminating oncoming traffic. 

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Is it really correct to say that the D60LFR is a redesign of the old D60LF or is it literally just a facelift? 

I was having this discussion with my friend today and we were arguing over whether the D60LFR was a redesign or a simple facelift of the D60LF. I said that because they're mechanically identical to the regular LF models and much of the bodywork remains identical, it doesn't make sense to call them a total redesign over the previous model.

We have D60LFs and D60LFRs in our fleet and they're almost identical save for the new EPA 2010 ISL engine and 10 fan cooling system in the D60LFRs instead of the EPA 2007 ISL system and single hydraulic fan in our D60LFs. The rest of the differences are in the interior.

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1 hour ago, Doppelkupplung said:

Not unlike the end cap changes from the old VII to the new one, plus the minor internal adjustments/fixes. 

Didn't the new VII officially get EPA 2007 engines as well? (despite the last few orders of the original VII in 2007 being supposedly EPA 2007 compliant)

For example, TTC's 2007 VIIs and their 2009 VII diesels are identical in every way except for a new mechanical fan on the 2009s instead of hydraulic as well as a six speed transmission instead of five speed. I also heard that the 8000s have a different style of DPF system (aka they don't regenerate on their own, the system is basically an add on passive system, and must be replaced once a year) but they're still EPA 2007s. However, pretty much everything between the OG and the NG is interchangeable.

In terms of D60LFs and D60LFRs, I also found out that there's also another model called the D60LFA (the BRT styled version of the LF) and it really doesn't look good at all. I much prefer the D60LF or D60LFR.

I'm surprised my friend actually thought that the "R" meant redesigned. If my friend and I were arguing over if a GM Classic was either literally a facelifted or a redesigned Fishbowl instead, he might have had a chance at being right considering they're different models and not two variations of the same model. (They do have the same internals but different body style, bottom half of the buses almost exactly the same, but the Classic was made by literally grafting a tubular structure onto the bottom half of a Fishbowl)

Personally, I tend to like the first models of buses better (OG VII over NG, D60LF over D60LFR) unless we're talking Classics and Fishbowls (but doesn't really count because they are separate models). In that case, I like the Classics better even though they're slightly slower.

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3 hours ago, OC Transpo/STO Fan said:

We have D60LFs and D60LFRs in our fleet and they're almost identical save for the new EPA 2010 ISL engine and 10 fan cooling system in the D60LFRs instead of the EPA 2007 ISL system and single hydraulic fan in our D60LFs. The rest of the differences are in the interior.

Another difference is the doors:

The D60LFs have curved windows and incandescent door lights

The D60LFRs have square windows and LED door lights

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7 hours ago, STO_1601 said:

Another difference is the doors:

The D60LFs have curved windows and incandescent door lights

The D60LFRs have square windows and LED door lights

That literally means nothing. You could go in and replace every incandescent bulb with an LED one if you wanted. All 72 of MiWays 2005 D40LFs have LED door and driver lights. Not the only case.

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10 hours ago, STO_1601 said:

When someone is asking me a question in French, I say to them "Désolé, Je ne parle pas français très bien" and I feel they still can't understand me.

Is this literally the right thing to say when you can't speak the language very well?

Yes it is the right thing to say but me being fluent in French would understand what your saying unless your using some hard English accent as your saying it. If I were you I would say "Désolé mais je ne parle pas très bien français" all I did was move a word. This would just help with the flow of the sentence.

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Well with about 1 hour left it looks like there will be no school tomorrow. I think I remember the elementary teachers back in the early 2010’s as I remember being off school for I think 2 days, but not high school teachers. I have only really been focused on this topic for the past couple day, as I thought that they would be able to reach some sort of an agreement but I guess not. 

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Predictably, I was not selected for the final CLRV trip on the 29th.

 

In a way, I find this result to be an extremely fitting metaphor for everything I find infuriating about this city and its attitudes towards everything. Thank Christ I'm moving away next year.  

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14 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

Predictably, I was not selected for the final CLRV trip on the 29th.

 

In a way, I find this result to be an extremely fitting metaphor for everything I find infuriating about this city and its attitudes towards everything. Thank Christ I'm moving away next year.  

It's just a charter, we'll all be on the real last run anyways. 

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5 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Predictably, I was not selected for the final CLRV trip on the 29th.

 

In a way, I find this result to be an extremely fitting metaphor for everything I find infuriating about this city and its attitudes towards everything. Thank Christ I'm moving away next year.  

If it makes you feel any better, I'm not going to be on it either.  I didn't enter.  The whole thing comes across, especially after reading the fine print in the terms and conditions on the TTC website, as a  marketing stunt rather than a bona fide last run.  Closed attendance and totally stage managed.  The skill testing math question?  I guess it gets the TTC out of having to get a lottery license for the draw plus make it difficult enough, it'll keep the riffraff out especially since it says you can't use "any mechanical or other aid".  I guess they think hand crank adding machines and slide rules are still in common use with that statement.  I just shake my head at the whole production and I'll quietly ride one of the other last CLRVs that day instead and lament the fact that so few of these machines are going to end up preserved for future generations to see and experience how Toronto streetcars were for the last two decades of the 20th century and the first two of the 21st or see working examples of the technology of the time that was used on these cars.

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21 hours ago, Streety McCarface said:

It's just a charter, we'll all be on the real last run anyways. 

Well... maybe. Depends on if there will be a schedule released and if they'll stick to that schedule.

16 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

If it makes you feel any better, I'm not going to be on it either.  I didn't enter.  The whole thing comes across, especially after reading the fine print in the terms and conditions on the TTC website, as a  marketing stunt rather than a bona fide last run.

I see that, too. The irony is that they had to have legal people draft up the terms and conditions and they're now going to have to expend effort verifying the identities of the people that they selected for the contest and ensure that they align with all the nonsensical stipulations they put forth, when it would've cost them almost nothing to make the run publicly accessible to everyone.

You would never see this kind of nonsense happen in Prague. Not that this is my only issue with Toronto... the extravagant housing prices, the congestion, the lack of career opportunities in my field, etc. I've been fed up with a long time now but this feels like one last middle finger from the city.

16 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

 I just shake my head at the whole production and I'll quietly ride one of the other last CLRVs that day instead and lament the fact that so few of these machines are going to end up preserved for future generations to see and experience how Toronto streetcars were for the last two decades of the 20th century and the first two of the 21st or see working examples of the technology of the time that was used on these cars.

Agreed, and thanks to Harvey shops being closed for streetcar operations I have to wonder if those meagre cars that will be left behind will even be accessible to the general public in the next 15-20 years or so. I guess it depends on what condition they'll be in after retirement, but considering they've been slowly rotting away for 40 years and spent almost none of that time in indoor storage, I'm not hopeful.

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On 12/9/2019 at 12:00 PM, PCC Guy said:

Predictably, I was not selected for the final CLRV trip on the 29th.

 

In a way, I find this result to be an extremely fitting metaphor for everything I find infuriating about this city and its attitudes towards everything. Thank Christ I'm moving away next year.  

Meh. You're better off not riding a car with a bunch of empty suits talkin bout BS even though they'd never ride the TTC with those commoners unless there's cameras about.

I'd rather a nice, quiet ride on a regular service vehicle on the last day.

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8 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Agreed, and thanks to Harvey shops being closed for streetcar operations I have to wonder if those meagre cars that will be left behind will even be accessible to the general public in the next 15-20 years or so. I guess it depends on what condition they'll be in after retirement, but considering they've been slowly rotting away for 40 years and spent almost none of that time in indoor storage, I'm not hopeful.

Let's hope that Halton will at the very least provide support to 4207 and 4001 (and any other CLRVs the TTC decides to preserve, if any), ensuring they will never rot away. 

 

On 12/9/2019 at 5:13 PM, Wayside Observer said:

I just shake my head at the whole production and I'll quietly ride one of the other last CLRVs that day instead and lament the fact that so few of these machines are going to end up preserved for future generations to see and experience how Toronto streetcars were for the last two decades of the 20th century and the first two of the 21st or see working examples of the technology of the time that was used on these cars.

I mean, we don't exactly know how many will be preserved, but in all honesty, I'm actually really happy Halton got 4 (for the longest time I heard they were only getting 1 or 2, perhaps none), that the TTC is going to attempt to keep at least 2, and that one went to Illinois. 

So far that's 7, but apparently the TTC might keep a non-SIG CLRV, and Dan alluded to 4178 being marked for preservation (not sure the organization though). All in all, 9 vehicles out of 250 isn't awful, plus there's always the chance that more have already been selected by other agencies/museums. We won't know until they're loaded up. 

What really sucks is that only 2 ALRVs are going to be preserved, and even then, apparently 4207 is having problems. The fact that 4221 wasn't saved was disheartening (especially since it was refurbished).  

Come to think of it, the TTC really botched up the ALRV preservation, and the CLRV preservation could have been done much better. What happened to 4000 and 4041 were crimes. 

3 hours ago, Downsview 108 said:

Meh. You're better off not riding a car with a bunch of empty suits talkin bout BS even though they'd never ride the TTC with those commoners unless there's cameras about.

I'd rather a nice, quiet ride on a regular service vehicle on the last day.

I still wonder who exactly the guests are, I wouldn't be surprised if Steve Munro is there, and perhaps some TTS/HCRR board members. Perhaps Byford will pay a visit but even that is insanely unlikely. 

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46 minutes ago, Streety McCarface said:

Let's hope that Halton will at the very least provide support to 4207 and 4001 (and any other CLRVs the TTC decides to preserve, if any), ensuring they will never rot away. 

 

I mean, we don't exactly know how many will be preserved, but in all honesty, I'm actually really happy Halton got 4 (for the longest time I heard they were only getting 1 or 2, perhaps none), that the TTC is going to attempt to keep at least 2, and that one went to Illinois. 

So far that's 7, but apparently the TTC might keep a non-SIG CLRV, and Dan alluded to 4178 being marked for preservation (not sure the organization though). All in all, 9 vehicles out of 250 isn't awful, plus there's always the chance that more have already been selected by other agencies/museums. We won't know until they're loaded up. 

What really sucks is that only 2 ALRVs are going to be preserved, and even then, apparently 4207 is having problems. The fact that 4221 wasn't saved was disheartening (especially since it was refurbished).  

Come to think of it, the TTC really botched up the ALRV preservation, and the CLRV preservation could have been done much better. What happened to 4000 and 4041 were crimes. 

I still wonder who exactly the guests are, I wouldn't be surprised if Steve Munro is there, and perhaps some TTS/HCRR board members. Perhaps Byford will pay a visit but even that is insanely unlikely. 

"TTS/HCRR board members"

Pass. 🙄

 

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Better them than politicians who don't care about transit pleasuring themselves about how much progress we're making as a city with the retirement of these dinosaurs.

What's that, you say? We have to run shuttle buses on routes because no one thought to buy more cars to deal with increased demand? That's not real.

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8 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

You would never see this kind of nonsense happen in Prague. Not that this is my only issue with Toronto... the extravagant housing prices, the congestion, the lack of career opportunities in my field, etc. I've been fed up with a long time now but this feels like one last middle finger from the city.

I'm sorry it's come down to the decision whether to stay or go.  It's a shame you've decided to leave the city but I understand; I've been feeling the same issues for a long time as well.  The congestion, lack of career opportunities, the crappy attitude.  It's weighed on a lot of people.  The word extravagant doesn't even begin to describe housing prices.  Back in the spring, I was helping a friend at work move some stuff into his new place, totally the burden of being the person with the biggest SUV right, and we were coming down Keele or Weston or maybe Old Weston Rd, I've forgotten which, and we were approaching St. Clair and we saw this piece of garbage house with no back yard, front wall's right at the concrete sidewalk with no lawn or anything and we both looked at each other and we both had the same thought:  this is a million dollars.  A detached house in fairly central Toronto on a transit line like the St. Clair car is a million dollars easy even if it's a piece of junk like this dump was.  Unless you're an office worker in a high paying job that offsets the cost of living here, Toronto is a bad place to be.  I don't blame anybody for deciding to move away.  It's a shame to be boxed into a corner and forced into making that decision though.

 

I've been thinking about the CLRV wind down and I've been having trouble getting my thoughts in order.  I guess these are my random thoughts which given the thread title are probably appropriate.  They're the last vehicle that was interesting to me.  I've never been much of a bus fan but the ones I did like are all gone.  The trolleybus system is completely gone.  All the pre-CLRV streetcars are gone.  The subway's unbelievably bland.  It's kind of tough to believe but in less than three weeks, the streetcar system's going to be a combination of bland and partial supposedly temporary abandonment.  I don't think there's been only one type of streetcar running in Toronto at any point in history before, once the last of the CLRVs go.

The TTC's got every right to do the last run however they want but I disagree with how it's been turned into a total marketing event with the over the top terms and conditions on that contest.  It kind of reminds me of how 2766 went out on the Harbourfont on Canada Day 150 back in 2017.  It carried people aboard.  I got a text message from one of them.  I'd have loved to have gone for a ride but it was another closed access event.  Reading the text message left me wondering why volunteer, why put out the effort on stuff like this if you're going to get slapped in the face.  The TTC's 100th anniversary is less than two years away.  I can see them keeping the historic fleet including the ALRV and CLRVs operational for that but afterwards is an open question.  They've never been big on history here in Toronto and once the need for that sort of thing passes, it's anybody's guess whether the cars'll be kept in good, working condition.d

With respect to preservation outside of the TTC, the only known confirmed cars are the four that went to HCRR plus the one that went to IRM.  I don't know anybody at IRM to ask what they did for parts since with only one car, they obviously don't have a parts unit, the documentation, and what the plan to get it regauged is.  Seashore is a place I've largely fallen out of touch with since one of my best friends there passed away.  I've only heard bits and pieces so I need to sit down with someone at some point and get the rundown on what's going on but it sounds like the place is going through a major upheaval of some kind right now and the previously stated desire to get several CLRVs may well have fallen through.  I don't know.  The handful of other places I'm familiar with, CLRVs are outside of the collection mandate, or already have a Toronto car, or some variation of too new/too recent and a lot of don't want to take on the electronics because of the total bamboozle job in Toronto that so thoroughly trashed the electronics.  When the last of the PCC cars were retired, they got scattered all over the place but this time, it's the complete opposite.  Hardly any are going anywhere.  The problem with HCRR is that for as far back as anybody I know can remember, it has been a very clique-y organization.  It's been like that since at least the 1980s, possibly longer.  You're either in the clique or your not in the clique.  If you're aren't, there's really nothing for you there so those four cars might as well not exist and if nowhere else other than IRM obtains any, the idea of going somewhere else within a day's drive for a weekend trip to enjoy is off the table.  So, for many of us, December 29 truly is the end of the line.  That makes me sad.

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4 minutes ago, John Oke said:

Call me crazy. But I’m listening to the Long and Winding Road by The Beatles while reading this thread because of the retirements which makes me sad and will probably be listening to it on the farewell trip 

I still say Don't Stop Me Now is the CLRV/ALRV theme. 

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