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So i'm guessing that's why 8403 is at Queensway for training?

Seems like the case. What puzzles me is why Queensway need the Novas now. The 7900s + 8000s total 180 buses plus they have the flyers. The current 2016 Nova order isn't here to replace the flyers but instead to increase the capacity spares to 18%. Another order in 2017 will include 50 buses to replace the flyers.

What's pretty much set in stones is the fact that Novas will replace the flyers since it makes no sense to train Queensway operators to another type of bus even if TTC does get some new flyers. I'm thinking they might send the 7900s and some 8000s to the new temporary garage. The temp garage will likely not get hybrids nor new buses for good reasons. The S50s are stuck at Eglinton and Bmount for good. The 8300s aren't moving cause they need urea. More 8100s will move to Bmount. That leaves the 7900s and some 8000s that can be moved to the new garage. Malvern and MtD are stuck with what they got. Wilson will get more hybrids from Arrow, they are at 60+ now. It is safe to assume the temp garage will get one type of bus.

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Seems like the case. What puzzles me is why Queensway need the Novas now. The 7900s + 8000s total 180 buses plus they have the flyers. The current 2016 Nova order isn't here to replace the flyers but instead to increase the capacity spares to 18%. Another order in 2017 will include 50 buses to replace the flyers.

What's pretty much set in stones is the fact that Novas will replace the flyers since it makes no sense to train Queensway operators to another type of bus even if TTC does get some new flyers. I'm thinking they might send the 7900s and some 8000s to the new temporary garage. The temp garage will likely not get hybrids nor new buses for good reasons. The S50s are stuck at Eglinton and Bmount for good. The 8300s aren't moving cause they need urea. More 8100s will move to Bmount. That leaves the 7900s and some 8000s that can be moved to the new garage. Malvern and MtD are stuck with what they got. Wilson will get more hybrids from Arrow, they are at 60+ now. It is safe to assume the temp garage will get one type of bus.

Wilson will be getting buses from Malvern the next Board Period, and giving more 8100s to Bmount.

The Novas have urea too. 8300s, 9000s, 8400s and the 8510s. So Eglinton and Bmount are the only garages that doesn't have Urea. Bmount is currently replacing their fuel tank. So I assume Eglinton will be the last garage equip with Urea.

Nothing has really changed with Eglinton since the Classics left, almost 10 years now? Time flies. I guess if TTC replaces the 7300 now, one big order will replace the 7400s ahead of schedule too.

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Wilson will be getting buses from Malvern the next Board Period, and giving more 8100s to Bmount.

The Novas have urea too. 8300s, 9000s, 8400s and the 8510s. So Eglinton and Bmount are the only garages that doesn't have Urea. Bmount is currently replacing their fuel tank. So I assume Eglinton will be the last garage equip with Urea.

Nothing has really changed with Eglinton since the Classics left, almost 10 years now? Time flies. I guess if TTC replaces the 7300 now, one big order will replace the 7400s ahead of schedule too.

They're just going to shuffle around the hybrids. Eventually Arrow is going to loose hybrids to Malvern and MtD. MtD hybrids would end up at Malvern like the few 1200s just did last week. Malvern sends more 1700s to Wilson.

All buses since the 8300s need Urea to meet the EPA10 requirement of pollution restriction. So Eglinton will eventually get Urea when the 7400s retire. No rush right now.

If the Flyers do retire now, half the order for capital spares will be assigned to Queensway and the half of the 2017 order will be assigned to capital spares instead. On paper, the Flyers will still be written down as to be replaced in 2017. Didn't TTC say they'll build buses 100 at a time instead of a large bulk and a long period of science. The current plans on Steve Munro's blogs still say they'll order some of the 7400 replacements but not retire the 7400s yet. This allows the fleet to temporary grow to 2000+ around 2020 and retire the 7400s when the LRTs open.

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The fleet plans is always changing. So what ever was on Steve site is probably something else now. What your saying about the 79/8000 being used at a Temp garage sounds logical. Its good to spread buses around, that way movement is easier and training is a one time thing.


All the 1800s are at Wilson now

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Those plans only stay the same for so long. I do think TTC will move towards buying buses every year oppose to bulk buying.

If the TTC keeps buying Novas, eventually they'll have them at most divisions.

If they buy buses every year it would be nice. It would be even better if they would change suppliers every year too.

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If they buy buses every year it would be nice. It would be even better if they would change suppliers every year too.

One would hope that Alexander Dennis can produce 40ft buses at the new facility in Vaughan. LFSes and XD40s being the only buses on the Canadian market really sucks.

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The fleet plans is always changing. So what ever was on Steve site is probably something else now. What your saying about the 79/8000 being used at a Temp garage sounds logical. Its good to spread buses around, that way movement is easier and training is a one time thing.

All the 1800s are at Wilson now

I dont think the temporary garage is going to use 180 buses. 50-100 tops.

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I dont think the temporary garage is going to use 180 buses. 50-100 tops.

No, not all the 7900/8000s would be sent there. 8000-8011 are airport buses that will stay at Queensway for the rest of their life. Queenways will still have the bulk of the 8000s. They can just send all the 7900s and 20 of the 8000s to the temp garage for 100 buses.

Do you know why the the 7900s are preferred to be dispatched on the 191? If there is a legitimate reason, then some 7900s will have to stay at Arrow.

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I dont think the temporary garage is going to use 180 buses. 50-100 tops.

I should have been more specific and said some of the 79/8000.

No, not all the 7900/8000s would be sent there. 8000-8011 are airport buses that will stay at Queensway for the rest of their life. Queenways will still have the bulk of the 8000s. They can just send all the 7900s and 20 of the 8000s to the temp garage for 100 buses.

Do you know why the the 7900s are preferred to be dispatched on the 191? If there is a legitimate reason, then some 7900s will have to stay at Arrow.

The few times I'm at Kipling Stn I see LFS on 191. I thought by now it would be a good mix of LFS and 7900s.

I don't know how accurate Transsee is, I just checked it and its all 7900 right now.

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Nothing has really changed with Eglinton since the Classics left, almost 10 years now? Time flies. I guess if TTC replaces the 7300 now, one big order will replace the 7400s ahead of schedule too.

If the Flyers do retire now, half the order for capital spares will be assigned to Queensway and the half of the 2017 order will be assigned to capital spares instead. On paper, the Flyers will still be written down as to be replaced in 2017. Didn't TTC say they'll build buses 100 at a time instead of a large bulk and a long period of science. The current plans on Steve Munro's blogs still say they'll order some of the 7400 replacements but not retire the 7400s yet. This allows the fleet to temporary grow to 2000+ around 2020 and retire the 7400s when the LRTs open.

The 7400s will not start to retire until 2020. Even if the 7300s retire this year the TTC is planning to order buses for 2017, 2018 and 2019 still due to the planned early retirement of nearly half the NG Hybrid fleet. They want to retire 255 NG Hybrids between 2017 and 2021, followed by the 1000s in 2021-22, while the remaining 286 HG Hybrids living out their 18 year lifespan by using parts harvested from the retired units. The plans call for 101 buses to be ordered for 2017, 110 in 2018 and 120 in 2019, however that all depends on board approval as well as if they can get the temporary garage and McNicoll opened to house them.

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The few times I'm at Kipling Stn I see LFS on 191. I thought by now it would be a good mix of LFS and 7900s.

I don't know how accurate Transsee is, I just checked it and its all 7900 right now.

The current pattern is 75% 7900s in the weekday morning with some LFSes. They did do a trial all LFSes in the morning on a few days.

The afternoon peak runs are usually LFSes. There isn't much 7900s around.

By the evenings, usually the 191 is operated by mostly LFSes since all the day runs headed back to the garage. (191 burns too much gas)

Weekends are done by the 7900s only. Unlike weekdays, there are usually 7900s available for evening dispatches.

This shows 7900s are still preferred for the 191.

The 7400s will not start to retire until 2020. Even if the 7300s retire this year the TTC is planning to order buses for 2017, 2018 and 2019 still due to the planned early retirement of nearly half the NG Hybrid fleet. They want to retire 255 NG Hybrids between 2017 and 2021, followed by the 1000s in 2021-22, while the remaining 286 HG Hybrids living out their 18 year lifespan by using parts harvested from the retired units. The plans call for 101 buses to be ordered for 2017, 110 in 2018 and 120 in 2019, however that all depends on board approval as well as if they can get the temporary garage and McNicoll opened to house them.

The 2017 replacements for the D40LFs are in the budget. They will be ordered. Only the customer service initiative needs approval.

Unless Gillig may get up to the canadian market?

Is this ever going to happen?

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They're just going to shuffle around the hybrids. Eventually Arrow is going to loose hybrids to Malvern and MtD. MtD hybrids would end up at Malvern like the few 1200s just did last week. Malvern sends more 1700s to Wilson.

Why can't Arrow or Mount Dennis send their hybrids to Wilson instead of Malvern sending the 1700s over?

1795, 1823, 1826, 1828, 1829 are showing on Wilson routes on TransSee, while 1794 is still at Malvern.

My gut feeling is that 1795-1829 are all going to be at Wilson, but will have to wait for additional sightings for confirmation.

The sammdot.ca tracker is showing 1790, 1796 and 1797 at Wilson, all active within the last few hours. 1798 is still at Malvern.

What is urea? By the way up to 7701 should at eglinton. 7693 was spotted on 86

Yes, what is this urea please?

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Why can't Arrow or Mount Dennis send their hybrids to Wilson instead of Malvern sending the 1700s over?

Wilson likes their hybrids back :P Seems like they want the newer hybrids that they had before.

Yes, what is this urea please?

Urea (Adblue) is a solution (liquid) to reduce pollution from diesel engines in some cars and buses. They can't seem to engineer an engine that has enough power but doesn't create too much pollution. So instead they'll filter out the NOx after the been produced using urea. Vehicles that don't use urea can't meet the EPA testing standards unless they cheat like Volkswagen did but that doesn't help the environment.

The sammdot.ca tracker is showing 1790, 1796 and 1797 at Wilson, all active within the last few hours. 1798 is still at Malvern.

Also shows that 1258-1261, 1263, 1265-1267, 1271, 1275, 1276, 1280, 1286, 1288 are at Malvern. Some like 1264, 1268, 1269 were already at Malvern.

Arrow has less than 100 hybrids now.

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Wilson likes their hybrids back :P Seems like they want the newer hybrids that they had before.

Wilson <_<<_<

Urea (Adblue) is a solution (liquid) to reduce pollution from diesel engines in some cars and buses. They can't seem to engineer an engine that has enough power but doesn't create too much pollution. So instead they'll filter out the NOx after the been produced using urea. Vehicles that don't use urea can't meet the EPA testing standards unless they cheat like Volkswagen did but that doesn't help the environment.

Thanks :)

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sammdot.ca tracker has the following 8100s moved to Birchmount: 8142-8145, 8147, 8148, 8150-8158, 8160 (in service on 102B), 8162-8164, 8166. 8165's GPS has it at Birchmount but it says it's operating on 97

Also according to the sammdot tracker 1211 is at Malvern now

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The 7400s will not start to retire until 2020. Even if the 7300s retire this year the TTC is planning to order buses for 2017, 2018 and 2019 still due to the planned early retirement of nearly half the NG Hybrid fleet. They want to retire 255 NG Hybrids between 2017 and 2021, followed by the 1000s in 2021-22, while the remaining 286 HG Hybrids living out their 18 year lifespan by using parts harvested from the retired units. The plans call for 101 buses to be ordered for 2017, 110 in 2018 and 120 in 2019, however that all depends on board approval as well as if they can get the temporary garage and McNicoll opened to house them.

At this rate Nova will have the 2017 order in by 2016. And a tender for the 40ft buses should be around the corner for 101 buses. Does Nova still have another year with the current contract with TTC, or is the 8510 the last of the mutli year contract?

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At this rate Nova will have the 2017 order in by 2016. And a tender for the 40ft buses should be around the corner for 101 buses. Does Nova still have another year with the current contract with TTC, or is the 8510 the last of the mutli year contract?

The original contract says they have 2 more years and 37 more buses. The contract is for 250 buses. I'm pretty sure TTC/Nova saved money by having all 213 buses built in one run.

On a side note, one of the reports did say TTC wants to reconsider New Flyer and Nova's offerings before they order the 2017 order. I'm guessing we'll know by April or May.

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