Community Transit Enviro500s

[sbs7207b]

Seattle - Community Transit have ordered 23 Enviro 500s last year for 2010 deliveries.

Just reported by buses magazine, they have increased their order to 120 buses,

for deliveries in 2011 and 2012, to replace the elderly D60 high floor bendies

Buses are funded by the Federal government, as they are build by El Dorado in the U.S.A.,

and they all going to have 12.8m 77 seats dual door body.

Sourced from Buses magazine December 2009 issues

[Ztonyg]

I'm curious if more TAs may consider this bus. I know SF MUNI was evaluating it (and with their large artic fleet could be a candidate, although with all of the overhead trolleybus/MUNI Metro/streetcar wires, it could pose a problem).

[M.Wright]

 

 

I'm curious if more TAs may consider this bus. I know SF MUNI was evaluating it (and with their large artic fleet could be a candidate, although with all of the overhead trolleybus/MUNI Metro/streetcar wires, it could pose a problem).

The overhead wires pose no problems, they've ran the demo under them in most sections of the city, there is nothing wrong.

[general682002]

Seattle - Community Transit have ordered 23 Enviro 500s last year for 2010 deliveries.

Just reported by buses magazine, they have increased their order to 120 buses,

for deliveries in 2011 and 2012, to replace the elderly D60 high floor bendies

Buses are funded by the Federal government, as they are build by El Dorado in the U.S.A.,

and they all going to have 12.8m 77 seats dual door body.

Sourced from Buses magazine December 2009 issues

They only have 1995 D60HF, that's alot of DD buses unless they are expanding fleet.

[R. McConnell]

It's good to see that more North American transit agencies are turning to double-deckers.

[HoustonMETROFan]

It's good to see that more North American transit agencies are turning to double-deckers.

True but unfortunately, my hometown's transit agency (Houston METRO) will NOT be one of them. We would have but I guess the height issue is what turned METRO away from getting double-deckers.

[M.Wright]

 

True but unfortunately, my hometown's transit agency (Houston METRO) will NOT be one of them. We would have but I guess the height issue is what turned METRO away from getting double-deckers.

Does Houston have a bunch of bridges that 18 wheelers cannot clear? As the Enviro 500s are the same height as 18 wheelers.

[Erubisu]

just remind everyone who still want to take pictures of leased E500

it will return to Alexander at the end of this month.

but new E500s will be delivered in mid-2010, meaning that there may be no double decker bus service for 6 months

[Feronista]

just remind everyone who still want to take pictures of leased E500

it will return to Alexander at the end of this month.

but new E500s will be delivered in mid-2010, meaning that there may be no double decker bus service for 6 months

Elvis, did you ever get the serial number (VIN) of that one?

[Erubisu]

Elvis, did you ever get the serial number (VIN) of that one?

um...sorry...i didn't get that

[HoustonMETROFan]

Does Houston have a bunch of bridges that 18 wheelers cannot clear? As the Enviro 500s are the same height as 18 wheelers.

It depends on where they might have wanted to put the buses at. I'll have to do some more "investigating" to see just exactly why we're not getting any DDs. Just by them telling me that "height issues---blah, blah, blah" won't help in this case.

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

A couple of images of Community Transit #27900 taken last May 8, 2009 while I was in Seattle with a few other board members:

[Orion9131]

It's good to see that more North American transit agencies are turning to double-deckers.

Double Deckers are not the best for busy routes. You run the risk of increased dwell time from people descending from the upper floor.

[R. McConnell]

Double Deckers are not the best for busy routes. You run the risk of increased dwell time from people descending from the upper floor.

I haven't noticed this to be a problem at all given my observations on Hong Kong buses. Dwell times for double-deckers are no longer than I'm already used to; if anything, single-decker buses in Hong Kong have longer dwell times due to the fact that many only have one door.

[sbs7207b]

Any chance for Muni to buy after their Trials last year?

[Skateboard 5555]

<comment removed>

Edited December 31, 2009 by Skateboard 5555

[R. McConnell]

I disagree what you just said.

Why?

[sbs7207b]

Why?

Yeah, whats wrong with using deckers replacing artics?

[MT0603]

Why?

Because NovaBUS doesn't make Double Deckers, therefore they can't win those contracts, which stops NovaBUS from fulfilling his wet dream of NovaBus world domination.

Some people need to get a life, for real.

[Skateboard 5555]

Because NovaBUS doesn't make Double Deckers, therefore they can't win those contracts, which stops NovaBUS from fulfilling his wet dream of NovaBus world domination.

Some people need to get a life, for real.

incorrect. Thats not why, you really need to shutup. you do not know what your talking about so don't you dare to b*tch about what i like or not.

we all have opinions and you don't have to be rude to just answer for a perons question, because you cloud be wrong so dont try to be a jerk about it.

If you don't like my post then you don't have to reply you know. Just like other people would.

Why?

Yeah, whats wrong with using deckers replacing artics?

First off I don't like Double decker buses and i never liked any of them, there unsafe and not so great, plus they problary worst thing to mass transit.

Plus I dont think they fit well everywhere and it would be an issue and there too big.

and if this reason if not good enough for you then too bad and don't reply.

Plus please don't listen to this user "MT0603" because he just being a jerk about it.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Skateboard 5555

[R. McConnell]

First off I don't like Double decker buses and i never liked any of them, there unsafe and not so great, plus they problary worst thing to mass transit.

Plus I dont think they fit well everywhere and it would be an issue and there too big.

They're not any less safe than regular buses -- the presence of an upper deck doesn't automatically make them less safe -- and, while they might be too tall for certain overpasses, they definitely take up less road space and usually have higher passenger capacity than an artic.

If double-deckers are truly "the worst thing to mass transit" then how do you explain the fact that many cities around the world operate large fleets of them? Surely they would have realized it by now, no?

[Skateboard 5555]

They're not any less safe than regular buses -- the presence of an upper deck doesn't automatically make them less safe -- and, while they might be too tall for certain overpasses, they definitely take up less road space and usually have higher passenger capacity than an artic.

If double-deckers are truly "the worst thing to mass transit" then how do you explain the fact that many cities around the world operate large fleets of them? Surely they would have realized it by now, no?

well all i have to say is that I'm gald NYCT didn't order double decker buses, thats all.

[M. Parsons]

Spell check is the button in the upper right hand corner of the window you use when making a post. It has a blue check mark and the letters "ABC"

incorrect. Thats not why, you really need to shutup. you do not know what your talking about so don't you dare to b*tch about what i like or not.

we all have opinions and you don't have to be rude to just answer for a perons question, because you cloud be wrong so dont try to be a jerk about it.

If you don't like my post then you don't have to reply you know. Just like other people would.

My highlights above do not include grammar errors.

My point is, if you take a few minutes to make sure your post is legible you'll sound like less of an idiot- especially when you're replying to a post you apparently took offense to and are attempting to tell someone off.

First off I don't like Double decker buses and i never liked any of them

OK, that's an opinion I guess. Thankfully you did attempt to give reasons why you don't like them. Unfortunately, your reasons seem to have nothing logical to support them.

, there unsafe and not so great, plus they problary worst thing to mass transit.

So, how are they unsafe? I can't recall hearing anything bad about any of the 'deckers running in Canada/ the US. Give us something. Incidents reported in the media, studies looking at double decker buses... something like that that will provide credible proof of what you have stated.

My experience here in Canada is that artics seem unsafe. I sure wouldn't have wanted to have been riding in the artic joint of the ETS artic that was ripped open on a pole!

There's also the infamous photo of the Ottawa artics in a snow storm. I've seen Edmonton's artics struggle in poor weather. Didn't some New Flyer artics recently have defects in their artic joints? All of these are problems that seem to be exclusive to artics (bad weather affects any bus, put the popular pusher configuration for a artic in North America makes things worse) that wouldn't affect a double decker. And I will note, considering the number of artics and these relatively small number of problems, even these problems are very minor and not a major factor. They are the exception rather than the norm for articulated buses.

How are they the "worst thing to [sic] mass transit"?

Plus I dont think they fit well everywhere and it would be an issue and there too big.

(Kudos on the correct usage of "too", now if we could master their, there, and they're...)

Agreed- height of the bus is an issue that any agency considering purchasing them needs to take into consideration. However, it doesn't seem to be a big issue for BC Transit. Absolutely, some tree trimming and streetlights had to be raised, but they must have felt that those one-time items were justified by the extra capacity. Someone else noted that in Victoria's Downtown they are short on space and they might not have been able to fit articulated buses into the existing bus bays. The double deckers however take up a very similar footprint to a 40' low floor so there was no need to rebuilt sidewalks to accommodate artics, nor do you have extra traffic congestion from that extra 20' of bus on the road.

Fact is, double deckers have a proven track record. They are safe buses that allow a transit agency to carry more passengers (increase capacity) without taking up much extra roadway and not incurring costs for another operator. Are double deckers perfect? No. At the end of the day a transit agency will look at all options available which can range from putting more 40' buses on the road, artics, double deckers, perhaps building a streetcar line, LRT or a subway and decide which one suits their needs the best and will get the required job done.

I hope that perhaps you can appreciate the double decker just a little bit and won't make baseless comments in the future.

Double decker trolleybuses... gotta love those things!

[Skateboard 5555]

Spell check is the button in the upper right hand corner of the window you use when making a post. It has a blue check mark and the letters "ABC"

My highlights above do not include grammar errors.

My point is, if you take a few minutes to make sure your post is legible you'll sound like less of an idiot- especially when you're replying to a post you apparently took offense to and are attempting to tell someone off.

I know the grammar but I didn't feel like using it those .,';''; gammars.

OK, that's an opinion I guess. Thankfully you did attempt to give reasons why you don't like them. Unfortunately, your reasons seem to have nothing logical to support them.

I know its my opinion. We all have dislikes/likes.

So, how are they unsafe? I can't recall hearing anything bad about any of the 'deckers running in Canada/ the US. Give us something. Incidents reported in the media, studies looking at double decker buses... something like that that will provide credible proof of what you have stated.

My experience here in Canada is that artics seem unsafe. I sure wouldn't have wanted to have been riding in the artic joint of the ETS artic that was ripped open on a pole!

There's also the infamous photo of the Ottawa artics in a snow storm. I've seen Edmonton's artics struggle in poor weather. Didn't some New Flyer artics recently have defects in their artic joints? All of these are problems that seem to be exclusive to artics (bad weather affects any bus, put the popular pusher configuration for a artic in North America makes things worse) that wouldn't affect a double decker. And I will note, considering the number of artics and these relatively small number of problems, even these problems are very minor and not a major factor. They are the exception rather than the norm for articulated buses.

How are they the "worst thing to [sic] mass transit"?

(Kudos on the correct usage of "too", now if we could master their, there, and they're...)

Ok, Artics aren't perfect. I prefer artics over double decker buses anyday. I don't think double decker buses can handle streets for a TA but if they do fine for them, then they do fine for them.

Also what ETS Artic ripped up the pole? did it happen?

well either way, every artic will always have issues, they problary wouldn't last long due to artic joint isses and others.

height of the bus is an issue that any agency considering purchasing them needs to take into consideration. However, it doesn't seem to be a big issue for BC Transit. Absolutely, some tree trimming and streetlights had to be raised, but they must have felt that those one-time items were justified by the extra capacity. Someone else noted that in Victoria's Downtown they are short on space and they might not have been able to fit articulated buses into the existing bus bays. The double deckers however take up a very similar footprint to a 40' low floor so there was no need to rebuilt sidewalks to accommodate artics, nor do you have extra traffic congestion from that extra 20' of bus on the road.

Fact is, double deckers have a proven track record. They are safe buses that allow a transit agency to carry more passengers (increase capacity) without taking up much extra roadway and not incurring costs for another operator. Are double deckers perfect? No. At the end of the day a transit agency will look at all options available which can range from put more 40' buses on the road, artics, double deckers, perhaps building a streetcar line, LRT or a subway and decide which one suits their needs the best and will get the required job done.

I hope that perhaps you can appreciate the double decker just a little bit and won't make baseless comments in the future.

Double deckers may have more seating then 40ft buses. Do they have more seating then artics?

Last time i heard artics had more seats then double decker buses. Also artics cost more money to maintain more then double decker buses, ok yes they don't take up much extra roads and whatever you said on facts. its true.

[OC Transpo 8238]

Double deckers may have more seating then 40ft buses. Do they have more seating then artics?

Last time i heard artics had more seats then double decker buses.

OC Transpo's double deckers have more seating than our D60LF's. I am not sure about other TAs but I would think double deckers have more seating than a artic.