Ed T.

It's nice that the signs are reprogrammed, but there's not a word of this on the TTC website, and the route descriptions are all of the old lettering. Then there are signpost schedules to change, some stop pole lettering to change, etc. etc. All this is doing is confusing riders. The TTC can't manage to update riders on changes to a single route, but here they are thinking they can change route lettering all across the city in one day and everyone will cheer and no one will get lost.

I came across the new route lettering "123B" Thursday May 29th. Locally, I've seen some random 123B amongst the 123. The madness is well underway. Note that there's no info about this on the TTC's web site. The only ones in the know are readers of Steve Munro. (I posted about the relettering last Thursday as a comment in another thread--he hadn't posted the full article yet.)

Meanwhile, back at TTC HQ, some marketing-diploma types are patting themselves on the back for "Enhancing the consistent branding of customer product experience." Raises all 'round!

What logic does the TTC follow in printing transfers for a specific route, versus having an alternative punch? I always find it mystifying that the 123 Shorncliffe bus gets Burnhamthorpe 50 transfers with a small punch for 123, while 508 Long Branch trippers get their own specific transfer pads. 123 has been around a lot longer and must carry lots more passengers. I once was given a hassle by an operator when presenting a transfer from a Shorncliffe bus. "What are you doing here from Burnhamthorpe?" he asked. I pointed out that it was a Shorncliffe transfer. It didn't improve when he then assured me that I should be on the Kipling express bus, since it "ran all day".

LFLRV heading west on Lake Shore across Kipling today. Is this the first time one of the new streetcars has made a trip to Long Branch loop?

Two subway questions: On a timed section, is the trip arm down when the flashing stops, or does it just start to go down? How much leeway is there to avoid being stopped? I ask because I was on a train that cut it really close heading east into Old Mill on the last timed light there. Well, we didn't stop, so that kind of answers my question maybe. When can one ride a T1 on YUS these days? Only rush hour? I'd like to take a railfan ride in the front. This would be easy early in the morning on a weekend (like my ride on the Boor line) but I can't imagine trying to do Downsview-Finch, looking out the front window, in rush hour.

4000 trailed by 4402, eastbound on King and Peter around 1 PM. The old keeping ahead of the new.

Huh? TTC transfers are based on when the bus/streetcar left the terminus. The additional detail is the direction of travel. Both of these are set at the terminus on the transfer dispenser, and don't change during the run. There is a list of theoretical run times to various transfer points, but that's pretty much fiction, especially by the time you're transferring to a third route from the second route (which is all too possible).

Some of the unrebuilt 4400 PCCs were all-priority seating, all the way to the back.

Wiki lists them as August 1973. I guess that is wrong, then, and should be updated.

I meant a gap in time, not in fleet numbers. Although the wiki isn't that exact on dates ordered and dates in service. It is odd to me that 8130-8125 were assigned out of chronological order, as the wiki says they were in service August 1973, while 7700 and 7900 delivery was still happening. Yes, 8044 was stuck on a level crossing and hit by a GO train, killing 8 people. We had a discussion here a while back, starting at http://www.cptdb.ca/index.php?showtopic=8410&view=findpost&p=508729

What I wrote is an exact transcription (unless I misread something) of what was written in the newsletter, viz: Elsewhere in the issue, we're told that the last of the 8010-8117 order had been received. That puts us in mid-'75. (Hmm, I should double-check the date of that newsletter; it's not at hand.) Anyway, looking at the wiki, there's actually a gap in TTC bus orders until the 19-bus order for 8140-8158 the next year. I can see "21 buses" becoming 19 buses, but I'm not aware of any special features of some of those 19. Looking at the link nfitz provided, the cutbacks to TOWN CENTRE started in October '75 and the route got a big chop in April '76. So, it could be that it was soon clear that TOWN CENTRE was a flop, and an original order in 1975 for 8140-8161 was cut back to 19 buses, and whatever "special features" were being considered for TOWN EXPRESS were dropped as well. Hmm, that makes the most sense to me.

Express Buses! Express Buses! Express Buses! Hmm. Maybe the TTS newsletter was barking up the wrong tree. I'm actually more curious about the "special buses" listed in the news section than the actual route.

Yep, looks it. I guess the TTC never did get those special buses, though, unless the much later 8140 et seq were it.

TTC question from the past. I was reading the TTS original newsletter, reprinted for the current 40th anniversary of the TTS. Back in 1975, the newsletter wrote: A bit further on, we're told that the last of the GM 8010-8117 order had been received. The next buses after these were the 8140-8158 order delivered in 1976. Other than the new three-speed transmission, I don't see anything special, and they aren't 21 buses either. I'm wondering: what, if anything, came of the 21 buses mentioned what might have been the idea of "special models" what was the TOWN CENTRE express bus route?

Yes, southbound 27 becomes the collector lanes. They are not busy until the crossover from the express further south. I wonder how HOV/bus lanes would work in the 427 collectors, given the frequent ramps both to many minor exits on the right, and the two crossovers to the express on the left. I learn something new every day. Of course the 112E is not listed in the TTC's route description.

I was using MiWay's maps, but they're hard to read and come in multiple fvlavours. There are already ramps for westbound Eglinton to southbound 27 and northbound 27 to Eglinton. I have a hard time figuring the usefulness of this route, since it will be stuck in traffic on Dundas to get back to Kipling.

It looks like 109 uses it, but I don't see any others. No TTC routes that I can see on the TTC map, nor can I think of any that might want to use it. Interesting that the ramp was put in for MiWay when it's in the City of Toronto. Although the land all around there is probably provinically-owned.

I don't even know if this is a TTC question.... There's a new bus-only on-ramp from Eglinton Ave. West that runs up to the southbound Highway 27 continuation to Highway 427 just before those become the collector lanes for the southbound 427. The ramp is tucked in south off Eglinton between the 427 and 27. It's basically located where the light standard is in this picture, coming off Eglinton and going down the page onto 27: http://goo.gl/maps/Yhdm6 I have no idea why this was built and what routes on Eglinton W want quick access to 27/427 southbound.

That's pretty much in the "complain about an employee" category I would think. Hmm, I see that the rigamarole of signing and faxing in your complaint is now optional.

At about 7:04 PM last night an RTS pulled into Kipling station. My bus was already leaving and had filthy windows, so: I don't know what the fleet number was I think the sign had the "Sorry out of service...." I'm not sure if there were passengers aboard It came in from Kipling Could Arrow have put one out on 46 Martin Grove as a changeoff? All I know is that I haven't seen an RTS at Kipling in years.

I don't think it's pointing fingers to say that this happens. The question is, why? That's why I asked it as a question. I don't know why the do that. Surely there are people in this forum who have an inside view. I expect a better answer would come here than from any random operator, who has no real reason to talk to me. What do you expect they'll tell me?

Kit Kat, can you tell me why two or three streetcars might leave Long Branch loop at about the same time? Are they instructed to do so via CIS? Or are they doing it because they can? Why are there operators who will leave 2 minutes and 58 seconds early, every time, right through a board period? I used to ride a specific run in the morning, just after 7 AM, when traffic delays downtown are not a problem and most cars are just going into service. Every new board period, I would have to familiarize myself with the operator for that run, and whether they left early, late, or on time. All of the above have little or nothing to do with the route being too long. To throw blame elsewhere, sometimes the scheduled running times are too long, so streetcars will plod across Lake Shore not exceeding 25km/h. Other times operators are flogging it like a racehorse. Then again, when I get off just before the loop, and the CIS unit shows -12 on a speedy streetcar, was this instructed, or the operator just having a bit of fun? In the absence of further evidence, I think that the TTC supervision is inadequate, and where it does show up it can be thoughtless and bad for riders. Some operators take the inadequate supervision and do as they please. It's not a lot of operators, but I remember the ones who are bad. I rode the Queen car during the split. In what way exactly was it a failure? I thought it worked fairly well, for something that I don't think the TTC really cared to do. And, you know, if "the 501 route is too long", and also "the route split (to shorten it) was a failure", then what's your suggestion? Abandon it and let people walk? That's the sort of thing that gets people frustrated, at operators and right up to Mitch Stambler who pulls out the "mixed traffic sucks" phrase every time he gets up before an audience. Of course that audience is always asking for improvements in the Queen car. Or is the takeway "it will always suck, stop complaining". As if we can never see any kind of progress, despite the best minds of TTC service planning and CPTDB and many other groups working on a solution to the problems?

I have to wonder why some bunching starts right at the terminal. Living close to Long Branch loop, I see streetcars leaving early--same operator, same run, every day--or two or three streetcars leaving the loop at pretty much the same time. Obviously then this is going to be a problem all the way to Neville loop. I am baffled why this happens. Are the operators playing games? Has the CIS room at Roncesvalles filled wtih some kind of hallucinatory agent? Beats me. Clearly, these streetcars are not adhering to any kind of schedule or headway. Yes, I understand the need for a break at the layover, but what I see as a passenger is nothing for twenty minutes, then a bunch of streetcars, right out of the loop. The first streetcar may have spent fifteen minutes laying over--I note the numbers of westbound streetcars, and if 4200 went west fifteen minutes ago, and then comes back eastbound at the head of a parade, it's pretty obvious. All very puzzling to this rider.

Thanks, I send you a PM.