Ed T.

Another question, this time about the modern day period: are there any tentative dates for a possible restoration of 508 service? Or do we have to get far many more Flexities on property first?

Massive changes to 501 route design are supposed to be coming in January. Officially, January 3rd. I am awaiting this with interest.

The official rationale is that the 501 changes are enough, and restoring a 508 service isn't a priority at this point. Note, there are three morning runs that sound like they are 508-ish, though the exact destination downtown isn't specified. I guess they might go to Queen and Church, or possibly Parliament.

Here's the real deal for 8870, August 11, 1995.

The red band above the windows still looks much too thick to me. The factory stripe on the units I am most familiar with, in the 8600 range, is narrower and does not follow one of the body plate seam lines. The repaint jobs always followed the plate seam, and that made them wider. This picture of 8902 is what I remember the factory scheme looked like.

My question is where the processing is done to determine whether a new fare should be deducted at each tap. The rule isn't as simple as "when was the initial tap?" that would work fine on a time-based system. Can the TTC's transfer rules be appllied aboard the vehicle or within the reader, based on the data on the card? I doubt it.

So we're looking at a whole lot data being broadcast and processed in a back end somewhere to figure out if it's one trip or two. I wonder how that will hold up in morning peak period when maybe a hundred thousand transactions are coming in every hour (especially if a single trip/fare requires multiple taps). I've worked in IT, and I think the system will take a long time to debug and stabilize. I can't see any easy way to do a simulation that will be close enough to what the system will encounter when it goes live.

Uber and taxis are essentally the same thing. Uber is obviously cheaper than taxi. Obviously the consumer will pick the cheapest option.

Is Uber cheaper? Always? I have the impression that it's usually more expensive. But it's way cooler to call up an Uber car through your phone app rather than stand on the street waving at traffic.

Note, I don't like taxis, haven't been in one in years, and I don't have a phone with apps so I will not be using Uber either.

The thing with Uber is that it is doing skimming with underpaid casual labour. Suppose we say "okay, that's it", take every taxi off the road, and let Uber take over? It would be a disaster. Much more of a disaster than if we took Uber of the roads and kept taxis.

As for Uber Hop, let's fold the TTC. Uber Hop will take care of us! Hop, Uber! Hop! Hop to it1

I wouldn't say that just yet. With TTC's complex transfer system, you might have to tap to confirm you took a bus on a specific route and to add a more recent transfer to the card.

My argument really isn't with you, it's with this whole rollout. It's almost as if the TTC is looking to make this as massive a mess as possible, especially maximizing customer discontent.

Presto was designed for a relatively simple premium fare commuter system, where rides are pretty simple and a "default trip" is easy-peasy to define.

Rolled out to OC Transpo, which has the second-most-complex system in Ontario, it was a disaster. I understand it's working okay now.

But--OC Transpo has a time-based fare.

The TTC figures it will keep its "one trip no stopovers" rule. Well, unlike GO, I would figure the average TTC trip involves several transfers, and the more ambitious TTC trips involve way more transfers than you'd ever contemplate on a GO transit trip. Furthermore, while there are few alternate routings that might make sense on GO transit, there are multiple possible legit routings on TTC. This can be seen by using the TTC trip planner.

I can't define a default journey even from home to work. I usually walk the last little stretch to work, but I may transfer to another bus for that last little hop if the Keele bus is delayed. If I get to my home stop early, I may catch a different bus route. If I get there late, I may catch the streetcar (at a different stop) and transfer to yet a different bus route. Never mind that if I hear the subway has problems, I might try taking the streetcar to Parkdale and grabbing a Lansdowne bus (which is a possible routing according to the TTC trip planner).

And my trip home has even more variables, depending on what I might want to accomplish on the trip back.

The current reality is that pretty much all operators do little but cursorily glance at your transfer. They certainly don't examine it and try to work out if it's a legit trip or not. (The exceptions being, obviously, if you're not at a transfer point, or if you look like a ne'er-do-well indigent and your transfer is grubby and wrinkled.) I have boarded a westbound Queen car at Lake Shore and Islington with a 39 Finch East transfer. I could have explained exactly how it came to this, but the operator didn't even ask. I'd like to see Presto figure this out.

If the TTC went to a time-based fare with the introduction of Presto, okay, there are mostly pluses, with some minuses, to that approach. But it's a simple implementation. The current scheme is so full of holes, I can't see it being anything other than a disaster. The $6 charge for a Presto card will have to go, too. Or it will have to be some refundable/free exchange if defective system.

TTC said they'll require all passengers to tap on buses at all subway stations even in the areas that fare is paid. E.g. boarding at Kipling Station, you will have to tap your presto card.

Not quite. The report says:

there is an opportunity to encourage customers to tap on entry to all vehicles, wherever they are including within integrated stations, and to tap off as they exit a subway station.

Why this would be thought a good idea I don't know. The report also says POP isn't coming to the bus routes, and neither is all-door boarding. There's no reason to tap on at Kipling, unless I guess you are really encouraged to tap tap tap.

The rear reader is just for fare paid zone passengers to tap on. Maybe they'll go POP one day.

What on earth is a fare paid zone passenger? Either they're allowing all-door boarding on buses, or they're not. Or this is a step towards tap-out on buses.

It seems like Presto is like adding to customer fares. The board meeting also discussed that Presto insist that a $6 card fee is necessary to reduce waste. It's charged high enough so people don't throw the card away and get a new one. My thoughts are to recover all the money spent and to avoid overloading the system as new cards registered online requires info of that card to be sent on every single presto reader for 30 days.

That's happy talk rationalization from Presto. If your card fails beyond whatever warranty period, you have to pay them another $6 for a new card. In this case it ought to be a free replacement--I'll give you my non-working card, you give me one for free. But, nope. They want another $6. Because.

The rush hour premium will probably be in place especially if TTC doesn't find an interim bus garage. I think they want to stop non-essential trips from happening in rush hour since they can't increase capacity of the system. Buses are already packed and there won't be any improvements (besides the 50 buses ordered this year) to address the increasing ridership. There is plenty of capacity in midday so they'll force people to make trips during those times.

Edit: Today's board meeting did confirm what I said which is to move people out of peak period since capacity is limited.

That's an interesting theory on the TTC's part. Being squeezed like a sardine isn't a deterrent to riding in peak period unless you have to? I get on the streetcar or subway at the end of the line and generally get a seat, but it's still not much fun.

Most people ride when they ride because that's when they have to go somewhere. This is the TTC getting some extra revenue without calling it a "fare increase" which, like "tax increase", is verboten in this city.

Also, IIRC 9430 made it out onto 501 on December 3rd in the afternoon, which was its final revenue service route.

Wilson is apparently supplying buses for 501L buses on Lake Shore (saw an 8100 today). Did any 9400s make it out on 501L in the morning in the final weeks? I was driving one morning about 9 AM, maybe Thursday morning, and thought there might be a V ahead of me, but turned off too soon to see.

a blown turbo?

I am not Bus_Medic, but it looked more like a diesel running rich. There wasn't any hint of blue (engine oil) in the smoke.

1000 heading back to the garage eastbound on Eglinton. This bus smokes at idle and blows out a big black puff when getting underway.

1606 on the bustling, busy 171 Mt Dennis route.

while we're on old questions - prior to 1965 when B-D opened what car line served Dundas between Bay and Broadview?

Harbord.

Students under 13 don't need Presto or a credit card. Only their parents/guardians can load up the cards.

Until you need a Presto card to get out of the subway station....

I am never a fan of organizations imposing inconvenience on their customers because it's inconvenient for the organization to make it convenient for customers.

Ask the TTC. They simply say the 24 cars will be numbered from 6141 to 6196. I have to admit I'm making an assumption that the individual trains will be 6141 to 6146 and 6191 to 6196 - but I don't see how else it would work.

It could be that the person writing the report didn't think things through, but simply copied and pasted.

But maybe we'll have funny out-of-sequence numbering, like last seen with the 5200s.

Yes. After the 76th six-car TR trainset (6131-6136) they will deliver six 4-car TR trainsets (6141-6146 to 6191-6196) to run on Line 4.

Uh, will the four-car sets really be numbered like that? In theory, they could be 6191-6195, 6196-6199, etc. If they're numbered consistently with the six-car sets so that cab cars are xxx1 and xxx6, then there will be missing numbers in the middle of the train.

Both CBC Toronto and The Star were there, but I haven't found any online coverage by them. Anyone come across any story by them?

The 501 is split back to the old 501/507 configuration for most times till have have more streetcars. Lake shore will finally much better service.

The 502/503 is bussed thanks to streetcar shortage.

And various streetcar changes.

Presto on the 502/503 is short lived. Plus streetcar won't be entering Exhibition loop anymore thanks to construction.

That assumes that the 507 cars are monitored to run according to schedule. I remember the time when there were some spare CLRVs, they were put on a 507 service alongside through 501 cars. It was not infrequent to see a 507 or two parked on Lake Shore, right by the Tim Horton at 28th, with the four-ways on. Or grouped together at Humber. Or sitting on the layby track at Long Branch.

Tangentially related, the past few days, there have been 501L buses mixed in with streetcars on Lake Shore. Is all of Queen getting tripper/peak buses like King, or only Lake Shore? I haven't had a chance to follow them.

The Twitter account required to use subway wifi is BS.

Are you using a smartphone or a PC? I use my laptop, and I get a web page saying "do you accept the conditions?", click "Accept", and I'm on.

Rebuilt by replacing the trolley pole with third rail collector? I don't think the platforms aren't tall enough to fit overhead wires.

It seems to me that the RT stations have a raised centre section as if overhead should go there.

I was enjoying the mild evening outside the transfer station (aka garbage facility) on Ingram Drive. Over the noise of trucks on the tipping floor, I hear a muffled rumble and think "that sounds like a 7900". Sure enough a non-hybrid OG VII goes by on the 59 Maple Leaf route.

OMG, I'm thinking of a previously prolific poster who "liked the ROAR" of these buses! What is happening??

High school starts in Grade 9. Grade 9 students are born in 2001, and are mostly aged 14, with some still 13, about to turn 14. There are no high school students supposed getting free rides. If it's blatantly obvious that the students are travelling to/from the high school, then it sounds more like a TTC issue, if they are giving free rides. It's not like schools push children forward any more.

Yes, teens in a bunch would never, never try to take advantage of the rules, or flout the system. If they do, the TTC op should challenge them and get proper ID from each of them?

So? Who'd ever care? Did it create a problem?

With kids, I'd ride 3 stops AND pay 2 child's tickets last year some days. And I've certainly used a token to go 5 stops.

I see lots of adults only going 2 stops on a pass. Pretty much any route at a subway station, you see people getting off after only one or two stops.

I'm confounded on why anyone actually though this ever was an issue - let alone after it's already been happening for almost a year, without the world ending.

Recall, it's only 12 or under. Your might see a few 12 year olds, and maybe even the occasional younger one out without parents. But this is hardly a group taking much capacity.

And surely exactly the type of future longer-term clients you want to indoctrinate early.

Well, if you challenge these kids, you can see how the vehicle could come to a complete halt for a few minutes while the op tries to straighten out who can ride for free. At which point, you have a problem keeping to schedule. So you let them on (howerver long that might take), and let them off a few stops later (however long that might take).

How many stops you go for a token is not really relevant to scheduling. At least it provides the TTC with revenue. Obviously many people will choose to walk instead. And the operator doesn't have to figure out if you're 12 or 13, just observe the fare being dropped.

The Metropass user has paid for the pass, and the subway train is going to stop at every station regardless. I don't see what kind of counterargument this would possibly be.

Total revenue from kids was only about $7 million. Barely worth the trouble.

I've heard operators complaining about kids taking short trips because they're free. I thnk some Kipling South operators were talking about kids taking a free ride from the loop down in Samuel Smith park (which is next to a high school) all the way up to Lake Shore. And if enough are doing it, it's going to needlesly slow down a route.

TTC also skipped 2766 (the preserved Witt) with the rebuilt New Looks, even though they were a completely different type of vehicle. It would make sense if they're keeping 4500 and 4549 to skip their numbers in the Flexity delivery.

Well, anyone know why the new streetcars start at 4400 instead of 4300? The only reason I can think of offhand is some kind of scheme to renumber rebuilt CLRVs or ALRVs, but I don't think 100 will be enough at this point.

And will Flexity #100 ever be delivered to actually make PCC 4500 an issue?