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Everything posted by martin607

  1. Given the different rhythm of battery bus operation (regular charging breaks etc.) I wonder how the scheduling department is planning for the introduction of the BEBs on the route 100. Do they have two different sets of paddles for the different types of bus? Or do they just have one set of working timetable and put the BEBs out on any run and see how they cope? Either way there could be a risk that over the day the service becomes disjointed, for example if battery buses fall behind with their charging requirements. Of course, that is one of the reasons for doing a 2.5 year trial.
  2. Why the criticism? This is general information about the system's operation, so what's wrong with putting it here? Most posts on TComm thread seem to be about specific buses, runs etc. Returning the 4 and 7 to trolley operation is a much wider event and IMHO can rightly be called "general" and go in this thread.
  3. Depending on the seat layout, the maximum load on a 12 m trolleybus is 78 passengers but I have seen 73 suggested. Either way the BEB seems to have a shortfall of about 12 passengers (about 16%) compared with either diesel or trolleybus.
  4. From my observations worldwide, it is normal that BEBs have a restricted passenger capacity because of weight regulations. The shortfall seems to be around 15% to 20% e.g. the Marcedes e-Citaro in Germany or the Solaris BEB version of the Urbino, made in Poland.
  5. I wonder how accurate the positioning of the bus needs to be, in order to connect with the pantograph coming down from the charging unit. In some countries they install a small hump in the paving so the driver can "feel" when they've reached the right place to park and charge.
  6. Thanks for the information. I understand your point about the road layout. There are a few of points that I would comment on. - Yes both models use the same motor which is rated at 250kW (or maybe 240kW) . That is ample power for an articulated bus even on hills. I believe the same size motors were used to achieve economies of scale. On the standard 12m models, the power is governed, otherwise passengers might be thrown on the floor. - Electric motors last a long time with little maintenance - there are plenty of examples of trolleybuses lasting 30 years with the same traction motor. They cope well with periodic overloads like climbing a hill, though obviously if there is a permanent overload there could be problems ( a sort of meltdown?). - the snow issue is, as I understand it, mostly because only the rear axle is powered. Ideally both the centre and rear axle would be powered as happens in countries like Switzerland. This gives better adhesion in snow and ice. - There could also be problems with the electric motor having too much torque when attempting to start. - is there an additional issue that the electrical supply on the southern end of the Victoria route is a bit weak. They would probably have to install a new substation to improve the power supply feeding that end of the route and the link along to the Canada Line station. - At one time planners suggested that savings in deadhead hours would make the extension of both the Fraser and Victoria lines worthwhile. I'm not sure about that, presumably the present deadhead is along 41st and then Oak or Granville to VTC. Would there be much of a saving?
  7. I don't understand your comment about the steep hill. Why would that be a problem for trolleybuses?
  8. Maybe they won't need to do that for special events. One scenario is that TL will buy battery-trolleybuses with In Motion Charging as well as a fleet of battery electric buses. In which case detours will be handled by the trolleybus having say 20km off wire range. That is one of the downsides of using opportunity charging. The BEBs can only run on routes where there are chargers at the terminals. Overnight charging is more flexible on routing but has the downside heavy battery weight and possible range problems in cold weather.
  9. The recent board meeting also included references to the future Marpole Transit Centre, which will accommodate both battery buses and diesel electric hybrids. Completion is due in 2023. Sounds like they won't be using VTC for the battery bus fleet at least initially.
  10. Never say "never". Who knows what will happen in the future? Politicians move on; real life experience of battery buses on trial may show some limitations in operations or economics, etc. Trolleybuses aren't the same as you remember from your youth, the technology has moved on. The latest models are battery-trolleybus hybrids with In Motion Charging, combining the energy efficiency of mains electric with the flexibility of the battery bus. Cities like Berlin and Stockholm think battery buses are fine for medium loads but believe these new style trolleybuses will be needed on the heaviest duty routes.
  11. Thanks. Two points that are refreshing to read: 1. Gillig have waited till they are are confident of the product before bringing their battery bus to the market. 2. They have avoided using the Altoona based energy consumption of 1.7 kWh per mile and used the much more realistic figure of 2.3 kWh per mile. This figure lines up with what the Federal Transit Administration found during the trials of the Proterra buses in Seattle. Who knows, by waiting to be the fourth entrant into the market, maybe Gillig will compete well with the early entrants.
  12. martin607

    BYD "E-Bus"

    If you mean the best battery-electric buses, I would suggest that New Flyer seems the most reliable. For example in the tests in New York they seem to have performed well, while the Proterra trial buses were withdrawn. Proterra seems to do well in some places e.g. Seattle but not so impressive in other places e.g. in Philadelphia it took them six months to get their first few buses into service. Now if you mean electric buses of all categories, I would nominate the Swiss Trolley Plus, a battery -trolleybus built by Hess with a cutting-edge electric traction package from ABB.
  13. Any reason why the driver shortage particularly affects Presidio? I read that the system has relied heavily on big levels of overtime. Have Presidio drivers banned overtime working?
  14. Moscow once had the largest trolleybus system in the world with ~2500 trolleybuses. The current mayor has been mounting a campaign against them for several years. The rot began in May 2016 when the majority of trolleybus routes entering the central area were converted to diesel buses. At that time the fleet was about 1500. The May 2016 closures and subsequent closures have reduced the fleet to well under 1000 trolleybuses.
  15. It was the last the last day of trolleybus service on routes 7, 17, 34 and 34K (short) not the last day of service on the whole system. There are still about 850 trolleybuses in service but the Mayor (from a remote part of Russia) just hates the trolleybuses he found in Moscow. At current rates of route conversions, the system could close by 2021.
  16. Don't forget this is a measure of boardings, not passenger miles. That's why the 5/6 and the 9 feature in the top ten. Lots of passengerturnover along the route rather than say the 99 where many passengers ride long distances. As an aside, I remember asking a Translink planner about ten years ago why they didn't put articulated trolleybuses on the 9 and the answer was that they wanted to keep the frequency as high as possible to cater for the short-distance type of passenger. The published chart is a bit misleading in placing the 41 only in 4th place as it excludes the passengers on the 43. They should have given one figure for the corridor on 41st or had a combined 41/43 listing.
  17. That raises the issue of ensuring that the buses get a good overnight charge before they leave HTC. Ideally you would not want buses to leave HTC on their first run to 22nd Street Station and then have to have an immediate charging break. Will they install one of the big charging stations at HTC to ensure the buses leave fully charged? Or a plug connector as for electric cars with presumably a DC rapid charger? From the electrical engineering point of view, there are arguments why VTC would be a good base: large scale electrical power supply already on site; and maintenance expertise.
  18. I appreciate the point that you make, particularly when there is just a small trial with just a few charging stations. The argument for the top-down pantograph is as follows. It saves weight on the bus (important for battery buses) and presumably equipment cost. For example, on the route 100 trial, there will be 10 buses (with the additional order) and two (or is it three?) charging stations. So the number of pantographs and therefore the cost is reduced, and the buses can be lighter and simpler to maintain.
  19. At the time of the audit, the alleged "problem" was a surplus of standard 12 m trolleybuses, as I understand it. Don't forget the 10 was also transferred to artic operation too. In a discussion during the last year, people on here were criticising the high number of spare trolleybuses. That's why I'm surprised that there aren't enough spares to run a 15 minute service on the shortened version of the 41.
  20. When the new B-Line on 41st begins, the original proposal was to run the remaining all-stops 41 with trolleybuses. This will apparently be postponed until the 9 is dieselised for the subway construction in 2020. What I don't understand is the implied shortage of trolleybuses. A couple of years back, Translink was criticised by auditors for having too many spare trolleybuses. So how is it that there are no spares available (say 10?) to run the reduced 15 min service on 41 to Crown? Has increased service requirements on existing routes absorbed the surplus that the auditors were criticising?
  21. Why has the 6 returned to ETI operation? Because of road works and a diversion, Muni had to use XT40s with their off-wire capability for months. I'm not sure passengers (as opposed to transit geeks) are going to be happy with high-floor ETIs returning to their route.
  22. Is anybody going to do anything to save some of those ETIs? I wouldn't mind having one myself, except I'm thousands of miles away.
  23. I assume you mean that the system is less fun for you as a fan. From the passenger point of view, having modern low-floor trolleybuses will be seen as an improvement. And from Muni's point of view, the ETIs had become unreliable, so maintenance will go down with a new fleet.
  24. You are confusing the ETIs and the New Flyer trolleybuses. The ETIs were built in the early 2000s and are coming to the end of their service life. Essentially they were a Czech Skoda trolleybus but built in the USA to meet Buy America regulations. Your reference to "three years ago" is presumably talking about the New Flyer trolleybuses. There are three batches: - 60ft Articulated XT60 #7201 to #7260. Delivered in 2015 - 60ft Articulated XT60 #7261 to #7293. Delivered in 2018 - 40ft standard length XT40 #5701 to #5885. Delivery began in 2018 and should finish by the end of 2019.
  25. I keep on saying to our photographers/video guys: get out there photographing/filming the ETIs while you still have them. They'll probably be gone by the end of the year.
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