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Downsview 108

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Posts posted by Downsview 108

  1. On 3/3/2020 at 11:37 AM, Wayside Observer said:

    That Philips works the same way as any other non-autoranging meter does where you push the button to chose AC or DC, crank the knob to the V, mA, or Ohms range you want to use for your measurement, hook up the leads and read the result.  It’s actually very similar to this one from Canadian Tire.

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    I fired up the other two Philips PM2423 nixie DMMs I have along with the PM2422 and hooked them up to the power supply. You can see a bit of difference in the readings between meters.  Some of it’s probably the meters themselves but most of it’s probably attributable to less than good connections with the fast crappy hookup job I did to daisy chain them.  

     

    IMG_6890.MOV 6.22 MB · 0 downloads

    It looks like I was able to squeeze in a short clip under the 10 MB post limit of the digits changing on two of them as the power supply’s output filter caps discharged after I switched it off but it isn’t the greatest footage I’ve shot so apologies for that.

    The one on the left was another $10 Kijiji find and the one on the right was $80, so that’s $100 worth of vintage nixie multimeters there.   The power supply was $40 and all of them came from Kijiji.  There are deals out there but not on eBay where nixie tube stuff commands a collector’s premium and it is possible to set up a retro workbench without breaking the bank.

     

    Yes, that’d be vacuum fluorescent displays for sure.  It looks like that X10 controller has one too.  They were common in VCRs and still are in microwave ovens.

    The carrier medium for X10 is typically the power line so you’re already half hooked up by plugging it in and turning it on.  I was just wondering if you’d hooked up any of the downstream devices elsewhere and used it’s control functions.

    It wasn’t from a mechanic, it was from an instructor.  Mechanics at trolley museums usually pretty good and stick to the facts or working theories as they’re understood to be (new information does come along and causes things to be revised in light of it as it does in any environment) and say so if they don’t know something instead of veering off into theories that are totally bonkers.  Outside of shop staff, trolley museum people seem to vary wildly from what I’ve seen.  As in all over the map.

    Let’s do another.

    The basis in fact behind the foam BS:

    Someone was operating a streetcar with a conventional K type platform controller and straight manual lapping air brake valve very slowly but eventually got it up into parallel with a bit of speed.

    The foam BS:

    I’ll just quote this one. “She’s only running on one motor now and I can feel it, she’s getting tired.”

    The truth:

    If your streetcar is down to one working motor, regardless of whether it’s a two motor or a four motor car, you’d better be moving it with the dead motors cut out.  When you do that, throwing any of the motor cut out switches in a K how platform controller, it causes a lever to move into position where it blocks the controller from being moved past full series.  Since the streetcar did finally pick up some speed once the guy wound it up and got it into parallel, we know for certain it was on the full complement of motors.  This one actually caused three of us to have a WTF moment among ourselves later.  I was disarming people by saying my experience is mainly with operating and maintaining PCC cars and we had a good laugh at the way I framed it.

    Anyways, electronics with K controller references, yes shhh it’s true I can do pre-1936 equipment too, but yeah we’d better not let HCRR see this post either.  Actually, speaking of K controllers, HCRR, and trolley museums in general, the whole limit the streetcar to series only routine is usually accomplished by doing exactly that, throwing a motor cutout switch in the controller.  There’s probably a good chance if you pop the cover off the controllers in 2424 or 2894 and cut all the motors in, you’d have the whole range back on those cars.  Well, we’d definitely better not let them see this post!

    Thanks for that. Nice video. I assume the machine at the top-right has a red filter to get the text to look that colour? I also noticed how quickly the numbers change without fading. I have never seen a Nixie tube display in person so I had no idea. Thought it would fade like a light bulb. I will definitely keep my eyes open on Kijiji or other places like estate sales if those are around. I don't have any electronics projects lined up (and haven't for years) but I'll find something if I can make use of a beautiful machine like that!

    Oh ok. I don't have any devices compatible with the X-10 (at least to my knowledge) so I wouldn't be able to test if this thing still works. It was a bit dirty when I got it. I wonder. How did they keep a machine like this from turning off your neighbours appliances?

    I see. You'd think instructors would simply ask the mechanics if there's something they don't know.

    LOL thanks for that info. I haven't been to HCRR in nearly 20 years. I rode a couple Witts there a few times but they never made that motor whining sound. Does that series-limit have to do with that? The montreal suburban car and the snow plow I rode there once were pretty fast. Hard to believe those were in series. I imagine they have the old style controller as well. Do they even bring those cars out to ride anymore, by the way? I also remember riding the Rail Grinder (the old single truck one) but that wasn't going very fast.

     

  2. 19 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

    That Philips DMM was a $10 Kijiji find, believe it or not.  Actually, come to think of it, that's the second nixie Philips DMM that was a $10 Kijiji find that I picked up.  Both were listed as multimeters and neither of them mentioned that they had nixie displays so anybody searching by keyword for nixie wouldn't have had them turn up in their results but I was browsing multimeters in each case and saw the distinctive readout in the thumbnail pictures and was able to score each of them for the $10 asking price since I didn't haggle.  I'll spin up the other one and take some pictures later today if I get a chance.  I really should spin up the vintage gear more often than I do but that's another story.

    Blue LEDs are a fairly recent innovation.  Calculators and watches etc. got away from LEDs pretty fast because of the drain they have on batteries which is why they're all older and kind of scarce these days; their day ended before blue LEDs came out.  Chances are what your friend had was a calculator with a vacuum fluorescent display.  VFDs could have a strong blue tint to them between the colour of the phosphor used and the filter over top of the display being tinted blue to suppress the faint orange glow from the display's warm filament wires.  I don't know for sure that they never made any but I can't think of any HP calculator that had a VFD display so what your friend had was probably made by a different company.

    That's a nice X10 controller!  Have you ever hooked any devices up to it?  That's a good reminder that home automation and smart homes are not exactly a new thing and that the concept predates the internet by quite a large margin.

    You are correct, the 4500 on the calculator was the foam.  I threw it in because why not?  There was an opportunity to work some foam in so I did.  Speaking of foam, here's a random foam thought based on a conversation from a couple of weeks ago:

    The basis in fact behind the foam BS:  Braking takes precedence over power on PCC cars.

    The foam BS:  Because braking is a higher priority in power on PCC cars, it is impossible for PCC cars to experience brake failures.

    The truth:  Even though braking does take priority over power on PCC cars, PCCs can and do experience brake failures.  Nobody has managed to build a vehicle yet that has made a brake failure an impossibility.

    Does that Philips multimeter work just as any old multimeter you'd buy at Canadian Tire or The Source? If so, I am DEFINITELY getting me one of those. That is the coolest thing I've ever seen. And you must have been running red lights to get that deal before someone else scooped it up. It looks like it's worth a lot more than just $10 bucks. Sad to think that if that went that cheap, then there must be countless other vintage gems out there that people just threw away because no one wanted them. 

    I never heard of VFD. I always thought it was an early colour of LED but it has a very unique look to it. Is that the same thing that is on this X-10 unit? My friend's calculator may have been a SHARP brand, I can't remember. Basically the same display as an older printing calculator but without the printing. The buttons on those old calculators probably were designed to alert your teacher or professor if you were using one on a test when you weren't suppose to. They remind me of those old Jerrold converter box remotes. So tactile you need two fingers to depress the buttons.

    I never hooked up anything to the controller. In fact, I don't think anything is supposed to hook up directly to it. I think it sends signals to whatever device it is controlling through the power lines. I found it in a random box of stuff I bought for maybe $7. Just thought it looked cooler than my $40 Dream Machine LOL. Keeps time perfectly I might add. It actually sets time faster than any clock radio I have ever seen. 

    LMAO touche. I see you've used a PCC streetcar reference next to electronic testing equipment. Pretty slick. 😂 Don't let anyone from HCRR see this post.

    Was that brake theory an actual foamer theory that you heard? Hopefully not from a mechanic.

  3. 8 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

    Oh brother.  I can see the giant hook coming out from behind the curtains at the side to drag you off the stage.

    Very nice!   I decided to go for broke and try to get some vintage analog, LED and nixie in the same picture all while doing something useful.
     

    I picked up a vintage HP calculator for a reasonable price the other night since the battery pack was long gone and one of the corroded battery terminals broke off when the seller tried to clean it.  The calculator also didn’t work when he tried to run it off the AC adapter either, which could have fried it since the calculator depends on a good battery pack being present to load down the incoming voltage so I had some testing to do:

    70B5FF0C-B238-47A8-9ADE-AB26F8EC8051.thumb.jpeg.3a8ede93ba093af384fc44fec1cd8875.jpeg

    Hook up a seriously old Canadian Research Institute power supply to the calculator.  There was more than enough of the broken off terminal to get a clip lead to bite to.

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    Hook up a snazzy vintage Philips nixie DMM as a sanity check of the power supply’s voltmeter.

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    And there it is working.  Luckily the calculator didn’t fry.  Analog, LEDs, and nixies.

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    Here’s a closeup is the DMM measuring the output of the calculator’s adapter.  It’s rated at a nominal 10 V AC out and here it is providing it.  There’s an intermittent in the cord that must’ve saved the calculator from getting blasted when the guy selling it tried to power it up.  I love how the far left indicator tube indicates the meter’s in AC though.

    FOAM.  Just for fun, I did put some foam into one of the pictures for you guys.  Can you find it?

    man that multimeter looks sweet.

    As for the foam, I'm guessing the "4500" on the calculator.

    Speaking of which, I think one of my classmates brought one of those old HP calculators to class but it had those old blue LEDs. Did HP make any like that? Maybe it was a different brand. I like that type of display as much as nixie tubes. I use an old BSR X-10 unit as a desk clock.

     

    IMG_20200228_085710.jpg

  4. On 2/24/2020 at 9:11 PM, captaintrolley said:

    American television and film composer, Robert Cobert passed away Feb 19, 2020 at the age of 95.

    For those who don't know, he did the music for the Price Is Right, the old Chain Reaction (which was actually the theme from the defunct show Supertrain) and also the music for the original $25,000 Pyramid. RIP

  5. On 2/24/2020 at 7:29 AM, John Oke said:

    Hold up were you the guy on the CLRV farewell trip (4001)who was being all nerdy and telling girls facts about the CLRV?

    Come on, those are some solid pick up lines.

    -Girl you look so good you make it go from an L2 to an L3!

    -Girl you look so good I'd charter you just to get in your carhouse.

    -Girl if UTDC made anything prettier I hope they kept it for themselves.

     

     

    • Haha 5
  6. Some of these people demanding vehicles to be preserved would be better off putting the money up themselves and/or the wrench work in fixing them and machining unavailable parts if necessary.

    A transit systems job is to move people in exchange for money. The more fit, comfortable and up to date the vehicles are the more money it can earn. Historic vehicles are simply a treat and lose more money than what they could earn if what went into them went into a regular vehicle. I love old vehicles as much as the next fan and I can pick out more than a few vehicles I wish were preserved (Flyer D700, E700, D800 and even the Flyer D901 which I hated and loved at the same time). But let's be realistic here about what it takes to keep historic vehicles around. Fans should be VERY grateful.

    • Like 1
  7. On 2/13/2020 at 9:17 PM, Doppelkupplung said:

    The Leafs are such a frustrating team to support. 

    Said every leafs fan for the past 50 years. 🤣

    On 2/15/2020 at 1:48 PM, PCC Guy said:

    Speaking of foamers, I had a really unpleasant interaction with one from Bratislava that really left a bad taste in my mouth.

    There is a trolleybus in storage at one of their tram yards that is officially indicated as a historic vehicle, but in reality may be too far gone to save (a decision has not yet been made, and scrapping has not yet commenced). This bus is wildly unpopular in the community; I became a pariah when I defended the decision to designate it historic (on a value basis, not a condition basis - I accept not everything can be saved, but we also should not be letting purist manchildren dictate what should and shouldn't be kept). I was in contact with someone from the Bratislava transit community recently, someone who absolutely loathes this bus and everything it stands for, who indicated that they ("we") might end up stripping the bus before they begin restoration work on another bus - not to salvage parts, or anything, but just to lessen its chances of being restored even more. I have no way of verifying if this person was screwing with me, or if they really are going to end up doing this, or if that is even their decision to make. I don't know the ins-and-outs of how preservation works in Bratislava, maybe they have volunteers to restore buses, I don't know.

    For all the shit that I give Toronto transit and the community, the one thing I'm glad about is that there's no danger of some deranged foamer being able to tear a CLRV to shreds because they have some kind of personal vendetta against the vehicle. The thought of these idiots being able to interfere in preservation decisions makes me sick.

    So that's what the hobby has come to, huh.

    We have to worry about the foam Taliban?

    On 2/16/2020 at 3:35 PM, captaintrolley said:

    Why do cell phone providers make it so difficult to get through to them?  Spent a few minutes on Rogers 'Live Chat', putting up with all kinds of BS scripted templates when the guy finally types back that my 'Pay As You Go' account is not supported by 'Live Chat' and he gave me a number to call. Spent a good 10 minutes on that pressing all kinds of numbers because none of their menu options dealt with my 'problem'. Finally got through to a real person. Took long enough. Anyhow, I did get my request for 'port protection' put in place. She said it would take 24-72 hours to activate the 'request'. One would think with all the talk in the media regarding phone number 'porting' that this request would be one of the menu options. Would sure save a lot of 'running around' on their menu options.

    Welcome to the millennium. Where customer service comes to die. 😩

    • Like 2
  8. 22 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

    They were marked for the military.  I couldn’t tell who OEMed them but they were bilingual marked for Canadian Forces.  I guess it’s one way to secure your supply chain’s official issue stuff and a (probably weak) disincentive towards employee takehomes.  The meters weigh in around six pounds or so.  I put them on my kitchen scales and bottomed them out.  I took some pictures for size for you.

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    Measuring 600 V with these or higher with the jacks on the high voltage option on the 635 isn’t a problem.  The meters themselves are rated for up to 1,000 V against ground.  They do predate the Cat I/II/III/IV type ratings on modern meters but people used these safely for that kind of work for many decades.  Keep in mind they were originally to be used on vacuum tube and industrial gear where many hundreds of volts was typical run of the mill stuff.  The biggest issues with doing it safely are using the right probes that are rated for that kind of work plus safe working techniques.  Specifically, at the high end of the voltage ranges on the HV option, you want to connect and disconnect the meter with the device being tested off so you aren’t drawing an arc or at risk of shorting/grounding something out getting the leads on and off of it.

     

    The beauty is, these meters don’t need batteries to take voltage or current measurements.  Getting them mounted in their cases or removed from their cases is a chore so I haven’t put batteries in them which means resistance measurements don’t work but they’re otherwise good.  
     

    One of my outdoor thermometer readers bailed out so I decided to check the batteries in it so let’s give these old beauties a spin:

    7BC41C4A-5C48-4034-A604-F139E0E89D7E.thumb.jpeg.376dd8d0d28dbda0c95080e6ff380ef8.jpeg

    The 635 says a bit over a volt.

    64526D7A-9C38-484A-9094-C85A3E95E53D.thumb.jpeg.aea40bfdce6e20e6cfcb6e62a80c59c0.jpeg

    The 260 agrees.

    3EBA2092-9595-49B8-AFAF-DD36FE541828.thumb.jpeg.34f38fc3f8ec15ce629dff9e58d21047.jpeg

    And as a sanity check, so does one of the fancy pants DMMs on the bench.  Oh, the display on the spectrum analyzer is from troubleshooting my audio analyzer...needed to see how pure the output is.  It had been parked for a while and it’s developed a couple of annoying output problems.   I need to pull it out and pop the cover off and check a few test points to see what’s going on...assuming the anti-electronics foam crowd doesn’t show up and go all Fahrenheit 451 on my workshop.

     

    Thanks for those photos. They're about as big as I thought they were but I thought they'd be heavier considering the vintage. The top photo on the left gives an idea of how thick the leather is. You don't get leather like that anymore LOL. I always wondered how devices this small could handle so much voltage without getting ridiculously hot or frying the components. So if a foamer wants to check if we're lying about there being 600V coming out of the 3rd rail, he can grab one of these and check it for himself? That's cool but I'd rather use this for home use. Especially since you said they don't need batteries. What were the batteries for then? 

    Cool analyzer. I'd love to have a device like that to clean up my audio paths for my turntables for ripping. What's the floppy disk drive for though? 

  9. 14 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

    Apparently the resemblance in logos is purely coincidental.  I haven't yet been able to figure out when Wabtec acquired Bach-Simpson.  Apparently B-S was building a lot of stuff for the railway industry even while they were independent which I guess is why they were an attractive buyout target for Wabtec, and that further muddies the waters...if the rail stuff was so compelling that Wabtec bought the company, does the meter get grandfathered...  The appliances you had almost fall into the reverse situation.  Were they made by Westinghouse before Wabtec and Wabco were spun off into independent companies?

    I agree with your verdict of NO.  Not foamer approved on the basis that device can be used to disprove foamer-fables and foam-theory for sure.  The high voltage option on the back is great for that.  To use it, you crank the knob on the front over to the 600 V AC or DC selection (foamer bonus) to enable the high voltage scaler and measure up to 6,000 volts, AC or DC.  That takes you through traditional low voltage DC electrifications right through 1,500 V (Ottawa LRT, some interurban) and 3,000 V (interurban) plus the AC side of the substation rectifiers used to power any of those.

    It does need some restoration work though.  It didn't feel light enough so I was kind of suspecting the worse case scenario.  I took the back off the meter and sure enough, there were military issue four AA batteries and a single D cell in there to provide the power for the Ohms function that were probably there 40+ years.  The leaked crusty mess was unbelievable.  I wish I took some pictures but force of habit got me and as soon as I saw the leaked batteries, I dug them out with a screwdriver right into the nearest garbage can to prevent them from doing anymore damage except there was no rush and I could've taken pictures because that ship had sailed and that damage was already done - a long, long time ago.  Unfortunately, one of the battery holder clips for one of the AA cells had been fully surrounded by leaked acid and when I scooped that battery out, most of the clip came with the crusted acid.  I was able to save the rest, at least prevent them from breaking so hopefully I can clean up the contact surfaces, but I'll have to get some thin sheet metal and cut a replacement with a pair of tin snips at some point.

    The leather case is classic, for sure, but the one I truly love is the roll top desk case that my Simpson 260 is in.

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    It’s something you have to see and use first hand to truly get how cute this garage door or roll top desk case is when you open and close it.  Anyways, this is another Bach-Simpson meter but it’s a 269 Series 7 so it’s surprisingly decent. I’ve never pulled it out of the case so I haven’t looked at the back. At least some of them were made in the US and badged for the Canadian market after manufacture in London was discontinued. I don’t have any dates or anything for that. Information on Canadian equipment companies from back in the day is damn hard to find and a lot of what little there is, is not on the Internet.

    Cool. I can't really tell by the pictures; How big are these two units and how heavy are they? Forgive my ignorance, but is it dangerous to test high voltages like 600 volts through those? Also could you see what brand those batteries were? Or were they just unmarked? Leaked batteries are the worst. My most recent victim of leaked batteries was a nice Minolta SLR (it was the first one with auto focus I believe and a bunch of other electronic stuff). The battery compartment was crusted over and that may have cause it to stop working. Thankfully with machines like yours, they're so robust that you can fix the contacts yourself. I wonder, is there any way to power it besides batteries? I have never seen a case like that roll-top before. What's it made of? Plastic? I also dig the old "chicken head" knobs on those. I am going to keep my eye out for something like this. I'd hate for an elegant device like this to go to waste. 

  10. 6 hours ago, 81-717 said:

    Yeah, they're about as popular over there as the GM's were in North America. Budapest's cars aren't silver on the outside though - the classic ones were blue and the rebuilt ones are black and white. Maybe you're thinking of the 81-717.6K in Moscow which is painted gray & blue like the 81-760. The 81-717.6K only looks more modern than a classic 81-717, but is basically mechanically identical. The 81-717.2K on the other hand looks almost identical to the 81-717.6K (besides the colors) but actually uses modern technology.

    To be fair I don't think NYC subways have a 40-50 year lifespan out of nostalgia either. Nostalgia is definitely there in terms of preservation of most types of cars, but they don't need to last that long to be saved. I wonder where they will store all the car types that will be retired in the future.

    I see thanks for that. I'm gonna check out some more video on YouTube. I always liked those cars.

    That's true about NYC. Their car orders are HUGE. Like hundreds and sometimes over 1000 cars. So any way they can save money they will. Money that they would also need to maintain or repair infrastructure. But NYC for the most part kept their cars for about 50 years. Some even lasted 60+ years like the Q-Type. As for retired cars, will they dump those in the ocean again? They could probably make another borough artificially with all those. 😂

    6 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

    Well this is an interesting conundrum.  Actually, it poses quite a conflict. I picked this little beauty up because it was cheap and it’s a neat piece of Canadian-made militaria that was built by Bach-Simpson down the road in London, Ont.

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    This is what an enlisted grunt would’ve used to do complicated electronics that you just can’t do in the army back in the day.

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    Bach-Simpson still exists in London today and this is where the interesting part comes up:  Bach-Simpson is a subsidiary of Wabtec now, and every self respecting foamer out there knows the pedigree of Wabtec and sister company Wabco.

    So, the great question:  Is this device foamer complicated electronics that you just can’t do, or foamer approved equipment, or both at the same time?

    I’m going to go away now and ponder that while I try to divide stuff by zero and contemplating other deep existential questions like, “Does Metrolinx do anything useful?” and “Will the Union Station Revitalization project be completed within my lifetime?”

    Nice piece. And I love the leather case. Simpson Logo almost looks like the department store logo. I wonder if there's a connection there. As for your question, that's a tough one. If it was built before Wabtec took it over then it has no historic foamer connection, but then again, I had a White Westinghouse fridge once and a Westinghouse clothes dryer. Both of which could be foamer approved (thank god they've long since been discarded lest I have photographers with huge zoom lenses trying to get shots of the logos through cracks in my doors and windows). My final verdict is NO seeing as that device can disprove many foamer-fables and foam-theory as you've demonstrated more than once.

    • Like 1
  11. 15 hours ago, 81-717 said:

    Ah, I see. When you said windscreens I thought you meant windshield, so I was confused :P I would've thought that wooden/particle board materials would be more susceptible than plastic to deformation caused by heat and moisture though (during the spring some of the wooden doors in my house would expand slightly and no longer close properly).

    Which ones are you referring to specifically? Lot's of subway systems throughout Russia and eastern Europe use(d) the same Russian-built cars (particularly 81-717s) built by the same manufacturers, some of which may have been customized for a specific subway system, either in terms of trivial design elements (color/paint, etc), or more significant things like the equipment used or being designed to use a narrower track gauge (Russian subway cars built for Budapest).

    TBH I think the only reason all those transit systems rebuilt all those old Russian cars several times is the same reason why the TTC did the same with the GMs and was about to do the same with the T1s. I'm sure those transit agencies would love to replace them with new trains (and no doubt a lot of the public are sick and tired of seeing and riding 81-717s in all their entirety), but even though a lot of them do have other types of trains, they still opted for a rebuild of the classics. Actually, in the case of Budapest, there are some conspiracy theories surrounding the rebuild of the old Ev-3 and classic 81-717 cars into the 81-717.2K. The transit system went with the rebuild due to cheaper cost, but there were rumors that while the contract was a rebuild on paper, in reality the old cars were scrapped and the "rebuilt" cars were actually brand new extras left over at the factory. For what it's worth, the Russian subways are also designed to last 35 years, and unlike the E*-cars (the remaining ones in Moscow are over 45) I don't know any single 81-717 that actually made it to 40 (the ones in Budapest lasted 38-39). The only thing ensuring long-term longevity of the 81-717 series is the fact that the production line kept going through the mid 2010s.

    I believe that's what those are called, windscreens. Maybe there's another word for them but I do believe they're there to keep wind from blowing on people sitting either side of them. As for the material, again, a lot of furniture today is made the same way. Desks, dressers, etc. All particle board covered in vinyl. Our cupboards are basically the same and they haven't warped. They're in the same condition as when they were installed. 

    Budapest I believe is the place. You just reminded me of it. Didn't know those cars were that popular. 

    Interesting info. I guess it depends also on how much of a nostalgia culture the agency has. Of course a place like NYC is going to keep their trains around for a long time because the subway is a culture there. Other places probably just wanna justify their capital budgets. :rolleyes:

    • Like 1
  12. 5 hours ago, 81-717 said:

    True. Then again there are some cars that are far more modern (1980s) that also have a mostly metallic interior (walls, window frames and ceilings(?)), i.e. the R62 and R68.

    I know the doors themselves are metal, and the M1s and TRs are the only ones to have them unpainted silver on the inside, but I was referring to the panels on both sides of the doors on the M1-T1 (the white bits on the M1s) - I'm pretty sure those are plastic on the H/T1 cars, so naturally I assumed the same for the M1.

    Interesting. Now that I think of it, did the H1-4s also have metal ceilings like the M1s, and the H5-T1s & TRs have non-metal ceilings?

    Those were the E-cars, which had several modifications throughout the 1960s and early 1970s, some of which were more like the Gloucesters than the original E-cars. But my favorite are the 81-717s which came out later (late 1970s onwards), some of which have faux woodgrain plastic (brown or cream) interiors similar to the H-cars. Those plastic interiors just have a nicer, smoother texture, especially the second one which is so smooth it's actually shiny (come think of it, I'm not sure whether it's plastic or metallic). Some of the modern rebuilds are even more plastic (even the metal window frames are gone), those are truly part of the plastic age.

    I see. The door panels (windscreens) are actually as I described before. I've seen damaged ones and that confirms it. It is some kind of hard pressed particle board or fiberglass. If they were solid plastic, those metal bars wouldn't last very long screwed into them as they wood with particle board anchors. The surface however is vinyl or plastic. Just like the DIY furniture today. My desk is actually the same and as about as thick as those screens. Also, if they were plastic they'd be considerably warped from years of heat. Think those old red slides they used to have at the pre-nanny state public jungle gyms. 😂

    Yeah those cars H5-TR probably have similar panels. It's all about saving weight and thermal properties. 

    Nice. Isn't there some other subway somewhere on the planet that has the EXACT same subway cars? I can't remember where but I think they were unpainted silver on the outside. I wonder if it is really cheaper to buy new cars instead of rebuild seeing as so many agencies have rebuilt and modernized their own cars. The TTC retires their subway cars very early comparatively. 

    • Like 1
  13. 9 hours ago, 81-717 said:

    Technically all subway cars since the M1's would go under the plastic age (plastic walls, window frames, door panels, etc), and I actually much prefer those as opposed to cars with incandescent lighting and lincrusta or wooden interiors (let alone wooden bodies), those just feel far too vintage for my liking (as if reminiscent of the 19th century). As much as I love the 1970s faux woodgrain styling (which is actually plastic), I definitely don't like real wooden interiors. Technically the Gloucesters were also part of the "plastic age" (unless the interior walls were metal), but they definitely feel less "plastic" and a lot more on the vintage side than the M1-T1 cars, hence why I prefer any of the latter (in this regard I even prefer the Toronto Rocket over the Gloucesters). Funny enough, the H1 interior never looks old in any pictures, it always looks smooth and shiny, the H4 interior actually kinda feels older than the H1.

    I just can't believe that while Toronto got the "plastic" M1's and H1's in the 1960s, and New York got equally "plastic" cars in the 1960s like the R32, R38 and R42 (which, like all other NYC cars as well as the Gloucesters, and unlike the M1-T1 cars, have metal window frames and openable windows), Russian subways built in the 1960's look vintage as hell even compared to the G's. A lot of people have an appreciation for that vintage style, but I've come to the conclusion that I hate it in its entirety (can't believe I once thought it would look good in an H1-4!). Gotta give Kiev credit for rebuilding that archaic interior into something comparable to the modern designs of today (all the original equipment was also replaced with modern technology).

    Nice photos. I'd still say the H1 color is better described as cream, and the H4 walls are about as "white" as the H6 floor.

    The Gloucesters were most definitely NOT of the plastic age. 😂 Those babies were mostly steel (except the G2s) and build in the 50s just before the plastic age came about. The walls inside were not plastic. I liked the lighting in those though. I compare it to the difference between using those CFL or LED bulbs without the yellow filter and bulbs and those newer LED ones that more resemble incandescent. Just had a nice warm feeling to them. Plus those seats were really plush. The door panels on the M1s were not plastic LOL. Where are you getting this info? They were aluminum. I got a pic of those doors from the inside if I can find them. The wind screens on all cars are not plastic. They're more a kind of fiberglass or really dense particle board with maybe a layer for the colour like todays furniture which is particle board underneath and vinyl for the pattern. That's the same material that was used for the ceilings in the Gloucesters and other wall panels. Same with the M1s (except the ceiling which was metal). The only plastic on the M1s was the window frames. See pics below.

    Those NYC cars, even though they are stainless steel instead of aluminum were built really well but to be fair, they went through two major overhauls. So that's why they're still around almost 60 years later. (R32). I guess it depends on what materials were available to them at build time and the objectives of their respective agencies. Early on the TTC wanted the lightest cars possible. They only went with the Gloucesters because the PCC subway cars were too expensive. I love those Moscow subway cars. They sort of look like half PCC/Half G2 Gloucester subway cars. The rebuild looks pretty nice too.

    Well if you wanna get anal. 😏

    Cream would be more yellow as the surface vehicle version of "cream" paint. I'd still say it was white. Same shade they used on buses before the Novas. It wasn't as white as the Novas.

    IMG_20200206_074858.jpg

    IMG_20200206_074918.jpg

    16 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

    The interior brightness of the H1s is kind of tough to pin down because the way we experienced it was not what Hawker-Siddeley intended.  Originally, the H1 interior lighting had a strip of fluorescents along the top and bottom of the enclosures that held the advertising cards and the rest of the interior was planned around that amount of light coming out of them.  People complained that it was much too bright so the TTC removed one of the rows of bulbs and knocked the lighting down by half which meant from that point on the H1s were a lot darker inside than they were originally.

    The interesting thing is despite that happening when the H1s were new, the trend in Toronto and elsewhere has been to crank the interior lighting right up over the last few generations of vehicles.  Look how bright the new streetcars and the Toronto Rockets are inside and it's so bright that it's uncomfortable plus with the way the windows are slightly tinted on those, seeing out at night or while underground is very difficult.

    Didn't know that. I've seen some fixtures for those at Lansdowne division and they looked like any other that was used system wide. About when did they remove the second row of lights? Maybe the colour scheme they used was to compliment that lighting which explains why those cars felt so dark inside.

    I don't really like the surgical lighting either. I guess they want decent lighting for the security cameras.

    • Like 3
  14. On 2/1/2020 at 3:46 PM, PCC Guy said:

    Perhaps I could, but the question is, with what money?  A few of my dad's friends weighed in on this issue when it first cropped up, and they said that short of contacting the seller or Amazon customer support, without forking out for a really good lawyer I would be pretty much be SOL.

    In the end I decided that the best course of action would be to contact Amazon customer support. They at first did not understand my inquiry, and then once informed, they assured me that they would end up "taking action" without asking for a modicum of proof from me. This was a couple of weeks ago and this listing is still up. Perhaps I should write to the seller directly instead. Fantastic :rolleyes:

    You're right. I guess the best thing to do is to not share full resolution photo, watermark them and host them on a site that disables downloading (even though there are browser plugins that can undermine that). 

    • Like 1
  15. On 1/31/2020 at 11:52 AM, 81-717 said:

    I guess it depends what one considers "white" (I remember wikipedia saying the H6s had "white" floors 😂). On the H5/6 (especially the H5 from what I remember), the lighting under the AC units at the ends of the cars was brighter than the rest, thus making the cream paint in that area appear whiter, whereas throughout the rest of the car it was noticeably yellower. I disagree however that the interior design was "designed to break your spirit on the way to work", I'd argue the complete opposite, since I find it to be a lot more appealing and uplifting than most others I've seen. If anything it's a lot (but not all) modern designs that are more likely to make one's daily commute to school/work boring and depressing (as a lot of people view commuting).

    That's true. These newer vehicles just don't have the "soul" the older ones have. Plasticware for a plastic age.

    Here's the number shots. I see what you're saying. The H1 "white" wasn't snow white but it wasn't as "off white" as the H4 paint. The H1s were definitely the darkest inside (besides the Gloucesters). So dark that it was very difficult to take photos without flash in them. hell, even if you had flash it was still hard.

    IMG_20200205_120626.jpg

    • Like 3
  16. On 1/17/2020 at 5:25 PM, PCC Guy said:

    OK I am officially fucking PISSED. Imagine my shock to open Amazon today and find that someone stole a photo of CLRV 4041 that I shot at Queen's Quay and Lower Spadina on the evening of June 7, 2016, and is making a pretty penny selling a t-shirt of it!! Holy crap!! Officially licensed my ass.

    I'm immediately looking in on what can be done about this. The NERVE of some people in this community!

    stolen photo c.png

    I am positive you can take legal action.

    This is seriously making me reconsider uploading videos. I will never upload my photos again that's for sure. Transit Toronto stole a few of my scans and photos and made up some BS name until I made them credit me or cease and desist.

    • Like 3
  17. On 1/22/2020 at 9:29 PM, 81-717 said:

    I don't think the indented windows on their own are any indication of how old a design looks. Personally I always found it interesting how the H1-4 exterior came out before the H5-T1 did, since the latter design is simpler, and the former is basically a modified, more complex version of the latter, so from a design evolution standpoint it would've made sense if the former came out later based on the latter.

    Interesting, because judging by some photos the H1 interior certainly appears cream (the walls, doors and ceiling), and the floor appears to be light gray (somewhere between that of the T1 and H4).

    To me the H6 interior always felt brightest, the H5's slightly less so. The H4's and T1's always seemed darker.

    1. That would be my opinion actually.

    2. Nope. The H1 walls are white while the H2's and 4s are more of an off-white cream colour. I have closeup number shots of both to prove this.

    3. Agree. That coupled with the orange, white and brown and then later on the red velour must have been designed to break your spirit on the way to work. Can't believe I used to prefer those cars to all else because of that when I was a kid. 😂

    • Like 1
  18. 23 hours ago, 81-717 said:

    TBH the H5 retirement really depresses me. There's no other vehicle that I miss as much as the H5.

    Yep, I'll miss the T1's one day because of that. There was a time when they were one of my least favorite cars (when it was just T1's and Hawkers). The H5 retirement would still always be a bigger deal to me though.

    Interesting, I don't know of any NYC cars (or any others) that would have the unique H1-4 eyebrow pattern, slanted windows, and gates (besides, obviously, the non-cab ends of those Expo cars which are long gone now). The R40 slant cars have a different kind of slant :P

    Yeah, apparently they're almost identical to the T1's mechanically, but unlike our H's & T1's, they're configured as 3+3 rather than 2+2+2. And they're also numbered differently, rather than going up by 1 each set goes up by 1000 - here's a  video of #(3001-2001-1001)+(1008-2008-3008).

    Yeah, I like the H1 interior too, the combination of all cream and the blue-green seats. They would look cool both with or without woodgrain. Maybe it had to do with the interior lighting, but otherwise the H1 interior doesn't look too dark considering they appear to have had the exact same shade of cream as the H5/6's, whose interior always seemed very bright (interesting that unlike the H1/5/6, the H2/4's had a darker shade of tan instead of cream - I always thought the H4 interior seemed somewhat darker because of it). Some of the 81-717.3s in Warsaw (built in 1990) have a fully cream interior similar to the H1 (minus the red seats). The R32 interior is also somewhat similar to the M1/H1.

    Take a look at the R10, R12 and R14, then have a look at the camshaft cars. Even though ours had smooth rounded roofs, the "eyebrow" pattern follows the same shape as those "turtleback" cars. So, to me at least, on approach it kinda looks like one of those. I don't know of any NYC cars that had indented windows as our did. Those camshaft cars looked older than they really were. The R40s were probably the dumbest design though. Made even worse when they put new gates on them. That's the space-age thing in the 60s going too far to be practical (and safe). LOL

    I always liked the T1s and kept track of their delivery. But when they were building the Sheppard line there were times when the entire Y-U-S was T1 like on the weekend. That's the only time I was ever really sick of them.

    The H1 interior paint was more on the white side actually. The ceiling was grey though. The floor blue and the seats dark blue and grey. So maybe the grey ceiling made them appear dark but it was probably a combination of that and the state of the fluorescent light fixtures. I remember catching one at Queen's Park that was so dark it looked like it was on emergency lighting. The H4s were the same way until they rebuilt them around 2002. After that they were as bright as the 53xx T1s were at the time.

  19. 4 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

    You mean telecine.  Kinescopes were machines that went in the opposite direction and had a film camera facing a CRT screen with long persistence phosphors to record video on movie film.  Movie film playback is an interesting beast since the sound and picture requirements are completely opposite.  For the best picture, the film needs to advance, come to a complete stop and be perfectly accurately registered in the gate, shutter open, shutter closed, then in motion to advance to the next frame so it's alternating between a complete stop and moving pretty fast.  On the other hand, for sound playback without awful wow and flutter or warbling, the film needs to stay moving at a steady rate with absolutely minimal speed variation over the sound head located 19 frames downstream from the projection gate.  For 35mm, that means it has to be moving at a steady 90 feet a minute only 19 frames of distance away from where it's constantly stop/starting.  Usually there's a polished drum spinning backwards against the film on the backing (non-emulsion) side with a light tension to buck the rough movement from the gate mechanism and even out the film speed so it's consistent before it hits the sound head.  I forget the exact measurements for 16mm like the Expo movie but the setup's similar along with the requirements to go from stop/start in the gate to smooth movement through the sound head housing.

    The union didn't like the ATO demo in NYC and there was a suspicious fire where the automatic trains got burned and that was the end of that.  NYC's dabbling in ATO now but retrofitting it on existing lines is not easy compared to building a new line where the ATO is designed in from the outset.  The MTA started going ATO on the 7 Flushing line first and the Carnarsie St. line (L?).  Those are relatively simple lines by NYC standards with no branching and no interlining with other lines.  In the case of the Flushing line, there's the middle track reversible express section but that's about it for complexity.  The problem is, retrofitting an ATO system on other lines where you have multiple branches, local/express tracks, and interline operation with other lines and that's really difficult.  Do you cut over every line to ATO that has an overlapping section at the same time?  Or, if you don't, how do you manage ATO plus wayside only over the same section of track over the same service hours of the day with no temporal separation?  It becomes a staggaring undertaking when you start thinking about those things.  Retrofitting ATO on the TTC subway or, for that matter the Montreal metro's a relatively sane project.  That's actually one thing the movie made me think about, if the Montreal metro ATO retrofit that started operating in 1976 was partially inspired by the experience they had with the Expo train system.

    The air conditioning, that's Toronto miserlyness.  Sure, they bought H5s with air conditioning in the mid/late seventies.  They finally started buying buses with air conditioning in the mid eighties.  But they were still buying streetcars without air conditioning in the middle of the 80s too.  I couldn't believe they didn't spring for A/C on the ALRVs but they'd only just started getting air conditioned buses around then too but honestly, that should've included the ALRVs.

    There are still world's fairs but they're not a big deal like they used to be.  My understanding is like it's a giant version of the old CNE where companies, countries, provinces, states, you name it set up pavilions showing off the best of everything they had, not just technology.  The Canada 150 back in 2017 felt like such a bust.  The centennial and the Expo put both Montreal and Canada on the map in a big way.  Look at all the centennial projects that were built in communities all across the country.  Nothing like that was done for Canada 150, just the show in Ottawa in front of parliament hill.

    Good point about the T1s.  Those are the last of the traditional married pair subway cars and the Scarborough RT cars, wow, those have been turned into nasty awful little trains on the inside and the Line 3 wrap on the outside is a joke of a Grade 3 art project.  You know, I remember when that line opened and it was so exciting with these new high tech trains with such high hope and promise for the future that turned into such a letdown so fast.  Nobody thought it would be the colossal white elephant it was.  I miss the original interiors with the transverse seats with the cushions, the wood trim and cream, and the unique RT paint scheme that didn't fall into any of the schemes the TTC used on anything else.  That monotone grey everywhere is hideous and that exterior Line 3 garbage is insulting at how stupid they assume the customers are about knowing which of the two rapid transit lines at Kennedy they're getting on to.

    LOL my bad. I always get telecine and kinescope mixed up. Thanks for that info! So you mean that the actual sound for a given picture is 19 frames away? I wonder how those ARRI cameras that had the built in optical sound recorder worked then since the audio is that far away from the actual image.

    I figured unions were the case and that could explain the fire that destroyed the ATO cars. I figure that even if the TTC were to go completely automatic they would still want to have an operator on board for security reasons. It's sad though that a lot of jobs will be lost to it.

    Yeah, apparently it took them a while to pay off the CLRVs. Didn't they lease them for years? Something like that. I can't believe those things had completely sealed windows when they were new. Did they really think that was a good idea to have a car with no fans or A/C and sealed windows? If I'm not mistaken, those Grey Line D901s were the first to have A/C but I actually didn't ride an A/C bus until the 91 Orions came in.

    That's true. There was also the 1984 "Year of celebration" which I wish I was older to see. It is my understanding that those old backlit street signs were from the centennial as well. I really wish they never got rid of those. They were really unique. Both Toronto and Montreal lost their charm a long long time ago. It's sad.

    LMAO. Yeah, I remember thinking how mysterious the RT seemed when I was living in Downsview as a kid. I didn't ride it until 1992 back when they still had 2-car trains. The door chimes, the weird seating pattern, strange starting noise and how fast they seemed to go was a new experience. All that "magic and wonder" died for me during the storm of 99 when day after day they broke down and had to be replaced with Orion IIIs on the 603 shuttle. That's when I started avoiding the line altogether. I haven't ridden the RT in years. Easily since before they change the colours. I just take the bus to STC when I need to go there. It really should never have been built.

    4 hours ago, 81-717 said:

    That's exactly what I like about them compared to the TR, the R46+, and unfortunately the 81-717 too.

    In my opinion the H5/6's had by far the best interior design with the woodgrain and cream, and bright orange/chrome yellow (and also the bright red floor on the H5s). The RT interior never really offered much except the woodgrain, the rest of it was a generic gray/white (plus the standard red seats). The R46 interior is very similar to the H6 even though those cars were built in 1974-1975 like the H4's.

    I think the original exterior RT paint scheme wasn't that different from the one used on buses and streetcars.

    Agreed, it never fails to disappoint me how/why the bright/warm interior colors like those of the H5/6 became outdated in favor of much more bland schemes like gray/white. Apparently the H5/6 interior style was exclusive to the 1970's, and was already outdated by 1980 (in NYC the R44/46 were the only cars to have it, the R62's and R68's, both built in the 1980's, already didn't have it). On the other hand, a lot of classic 81-717's do have the 1970's interior design, even those built in 1995-2014.

    Yeah I liked the H5s when they had the orange seats though. Even the all brown seats. I think putting those red velour seats on those and especially the H6s were hideous. My favourite interior design was the H1s and M1s though. Especially the H1s. They were so dark inside, it had this real mellow atmosphere to them. The old RT seating pattern was a bit inefficient in my opinion because of those single seats at either end. During the storm of 99 there were times where they could only run one train and you wouldn't believe how packed those got. Those were my favourite seats though.

  20. 4 hours ago, 81-717 said:

    To me the H5 retirement was the beginning of the end, and the T1 retirement would be the end of the end.

    I'd say the T1's can also be counted as old at this point.

    And by getting rid of the original 1970's interior and door chimes.

    The Expo Express cars were based on the H1, but I think the front of the train looks incredibly ugly. Definitely would've rather seen a real H1 preserved than one of those. They ruined the H1 almost as badly as uzbekistan ruined the 81-717 with their hideous "refurbishment". <_< Goes to show: don't judge a vehicle by its modifications/refurbs found elsewhere. That said, hopefully someday I can make a trip to Ankara and ride those modified H6's.

    The H5 retirement was a bit sad because those are the cars I remember most besides the H1s when I was little. Also because they broke down on the last trip which I didn't attend unfortunately.

    True, the T1s are the last of the old style subway cars that everyone seems to be slowly phasing out in favour of these new gangway subway trains.

    Oh, I agree with you about the front of the Expo Express. That turbo 60s "space age" look. 🤣🤣🤣 I always thought that the camshaft H cars' front design was reminiscent of NYC's "turtle back" cars with that design at the top.

    Those H6s in Ankara look interesting. They're like half H6/T1. I wonder if they are AC just like the T1s. It sure is weird seeing those classic TTC rounded windows in another country.

  21. 14 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

    Yeah, I ended up with the impression that the script was clearly written by someone who didn't fully understand the material they were trying to explain with they way they struggled in places.  I was able to glean some information from the displays they showed though.  Maximum authorized speed was communicated to the trains through audio frequency signals fed into the running rails of each section of line and that was picked up and decoded by the ATO box on the train.  What I couldn't figure out was how the status of the blocks of line ahead was sent back to the train unless the speed code was changed from line speed and dropped to 0 MPH in the blocks behind one occupied by a train to force the next train behind to stop or if a second set of codes was present.  The Victoria Line in London also opened in 1967 and had a track circuit based ATO system where one set of tones pumped into the track gave the maximum authorized speed in that section and the other set gave the state of the signalling system about whether it was clear, at danger or restricted, so similar.

    What surprised me about the Expo line in the movie was the wayside beacon located almost like the Identra coil readers were in Toronto before each station that signalled to the trains to slow down and stop.  If that's the extent of stopping a train and positioning it accurately on the platform to the 1.5 foot tolerance they mentioned in the narration, that'd be extremely dependent on the train hitting the beacon at the expected speed every time and not coming in slower due to closely following the one ahead, and accurate braking rate maintenance regardless of loading and weather conditions.  That's not much to go on to get a high degree of repeatability under varying conditions and I would've thought there'd have been a lot more positional feedback designed into the system for lining up platform stops at the stations.  I have to say watching out the front window in that movie of the moving train while the controller handle's cranked all the way over to the shutdown position is a bit wild!

    It is a shame though that the whole thing was junked after Expo; if more housing than Moshe Safdie's Habitat was built along the line after Expo closed, the train would've been a great little rapid transit line to connect it all to the main island or at least to the Ille St. Helene metro stop.  What really struck me about the movie was seeing how much stuff there was in the Expo grounds.  There's not a whole lot left which is a shame.  My understanding is that it was a lot of fun and a huge deal especially Expo 67 lined up with the centennial that year.  There was a big show on for the 50th anniversary back in 2017 that a lot of boomers including my parents who went to Expo went and visited for.

    The film itself is in sad shape unfortunately.  To be brutally honest, it's a beat up release print that's been run through a projector a ton of times and it's picked up some scratches along its length and it's gotten dirty plus fifty years of age and the colour dyes are deteriorating and it may be developing vinegar syndrome.  I played the first couple of minutes again with the volume turned up and I could hear problems with the sound after all but still does sound a lot better than the damage to the picture area would suggest it should.

    The issue with the credits at the end weaving up and down probably isn't due to the film being warped but more likely the sprocket holes have worn after the many trips it's had through a projector so it's wandering around a bit as each frame gets moved through the gate on the telecine machine (hopefully not another projector with a camcorder filming a movie screen) instead of being accurately registered in the same position each time.  And the film wasn't cleaned either before being captured on video, that's for sure, but to be fair, it's getting harder to find that service with the regulations around some of the chemicals that were used.  One place I worked at had a film cleaning machine in a special room with a barrier several inches high along the doorway to the film cleaning room so any chemical spill would be confined to the room and wouldn't get into the hallway and there were standing orders for how chemical spills were to be handled including specific instructions that the fire department was to be called for a hazmat team to assist if more than a certain volume was estimated to have spilled.  Another place dropped the service completely and became a straight up telecine operation.  Three guesses and the first two don't count if they lowered their prices to reflect the absence of film cleaning before being put through the telecine machine.

    Oh right, duh. I forgot about kinescopes. I would have just gone the scan route but boy that service isn't any cheaper. Especially if you have it done in 4k. The video itself on YouTube appears to be 1080p. Still that's some serious gate weave to make the credits wobble as they are. The audio sounds way better than the picture lets on that's for sure.

    I forgot about the fact that those NYC cars I mentioned used radio signals as well. It was the stationary control on the platforms that used film and then sent signals to the track that were picked up by the very same identra coil. I wonder why with all those years of practice why ATO never became a thing. Probably a union thing. I also noticed in the video that the train had proper A/C. I didn't realize that was an option at the time. I wonder why the TTC didn't get it for the H1s. They were getting a lot of funding back then from the provincial government. Nowhere near the joke funding they get today. So much so that the B-D line opened one year prematurely. I never really felt hot on the subway cars with fans but still it would have been nice.

    Expo 67 seemed to have a global impact. There were many famous band that played there. There's even a reggae song called "Last train to Expo 67". I still don't really know what they're about. Was it like the old CNE where they featured new technology? Or was it more like the current CNE as a giant industrial themed amusement park? Did they stop doing this? I only heard of the 1982 Expo and the 86 one after it and that's it. Damn. I used to have some slides taken during the construction of the 86 Expo with shots of the brand new Skytrain and ROW. Dunno what happened to those. Whatever it's purpose I'm sure it out Montreal on the map. They should have kept the train though. Or at least send em to Toronto for spare parts.

     

  22. 3 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

    Oh yeah.  That was total sixties for sure.  Did you notice something interesting about that film?   The amount of debris and scratches in the picture area was pretty severe especially during the first half; obviously that print got run through a projector a ton of times but the soundtrack sounded clean and didn’t reflect the film damage.  Maybe they had a copy of the soundtrack on tape or fullcoat mag stock but I’d have expected better fidelity if that was the case.  Weird.
     

    I cringed though at the part where they were talking about the dual control system where the power for the traction motors goes through the manual (H1 console!) control stand or the automatic box like it’s a K type platform controller in a Peter Witt car where the operator’s hand is right on a crank that switches the 600!   No, it’s a control stand or an ATO box feeding control information into the propulsion package in each car.  This is easier than you’d think at first glance on multiple unit cars since all you need to do is get the ATO box to put valid commands onto the train line buss and actuate some valves to change train air brake pipe pressure.  The propulsion and braking packages don’t care where the air pipe pressure changes or train line electrical buss  changes come from.  ATO box, the car’s control stand, a control stand in another car somewhere else in the train, in a multiple unit environment it doesn’t matter, dogs don’t know it’s not bacon.

     

    No kidding.  I was talking with a couple of friends about it and if the Gloucesters being retired in late 1990 was the beginning of the end, the CLRV retirement a couple of weeks ago was the end of the end, if you will.  There’s very little left that interests me.

    Life calls, very true.  Sometimes it calls literally.  One friend called and we went for breakfast this morning.  I resisted the temptation to screw with the restaurant’s jukebox wall box feed.  Another called with some info about the upcoming football season.  Another called to ask about this side project I’ve got going on the bench for him.

    Actually, I’ve got more shit than I can shake a stick at going on outside of my full time job which is why I never have any free time and I could honestly use some personal downtime to decompress.  Last night I finally put together a chair and ottoman that I bought two Boxing Day sales ago and put a floor lamp next to them to make a nice reading nook but that’s the kind of backlog I’ve been dealing with.

    So foaming now that everything that interested me is gone is pretty much not on the list.  Definitely time for a break.  As for the guy who shouted me down when we were talking about the GTA rot a while ago who things I should volunteer to make this a better hobby?  Part of me wants to say it’s beyond redemption.  Part of me wants to ask WTF he thinks this thing is

    091DAA1C-E30C-4F8E-9D81-6F3CF2384E44.thumb.jpeg.5fa98030806bc23979925c6bffc80ae8.jpeg

    7FAFF7CF-9099-4739-B878-D09FB1174241.thumb.jpeg.f13910feef509ccc1b2bfc3afba15dc8.jpeg

    along with the pile of remote assistance that some friends and I have been providing to another place that has a balky LRV.  Part of me wants to say have you seen my house and my work schedule?

    Life called and I’ve been keeping the hold button down way too long.  It’s time to pick it back up and go with a minimum foam existence for the next while.

    LOL yeah I was confused about their description of how the car worked. There was one too many utterance of the word "manual".🤣 They didn't really go into detail on how the ATO worked either. In NYC when they tried out ATO on an R21 or 22 (I think) around the same time, it used punched film. How did the Expo Express work? It's crazy how similar the train was to an H1 and a shame they never kept the cars in a museum or used them for regular rapid transit somehow.

    As for the film itself, the damage is brutal and the colour makes it look more like 50s 16mm stuff. The worst were the end credits. Did you catch that? I dunno if the titles are wobbling intentionally or the film is so damaged that it's not completely flat. Either way it doesn't look like they scanned the film frame by frame but instead maybe recorded it off a screen. There is distortion in the picture. The sound effects however killed me. 🤣 🤣 🤣 That and the shots of the 60s mod chicks had me waiting to see if Austin Powers was going to jump out in the middle of the car which transforms itself into a GoGo cage. 🤣 🤣  Great find. Expo 67 must have been fun. I actually have a map of it that I found in a box of records I bought a couple years ago!

     

     

    Where is that PCC in your photo? Are you working on that in person? I really wish we had more PCCs in the city. They shouldn't have ended the 100% PCC operation on the 604. It would have been a nice tourist line. They can mix it up with the CLRVs and ALRV they saved. It's something ain't it. Streetcars I grew up with are now in a museum. The thing is for me, they don't look as old fashioned as the PCC or Peter Witt. They still have a contemporary look to them. I wasn't expecting them to last as long as they did either. But it was sure sad to see and hear them in their last days. Especially those couple of cars that made this really weird and extremely loud thumping noise that shook the entire car. It was time to go. I don't really mind the new cars. I think they look cool. I like that nice clean, neat and symmetrical appearance. And it is interesting to ride on a low floor rail vehicle. But that's the end of the really old school style of streetcar.
     

    I have a huge backlog of videos to upload. I am not even a third of the way through the stuff I shot in 2009. I then have my stuff from 2011 which is in HDV. It will be at least two or three years before I even get to sort out the CLRV video before editing. That's just one side project. I have some UNIX studying and goals I want to accomplish like learning basic C programming. This aside from my home business is enough to keep me busy. So I won't really be checking in here often. I kinds wanna take a break from anything transit though. The last day of the CLRVs renewed my aversion to foamers. I am still disgusted by the reckless behaviour I saw. The TTC was being very generous.

    Volunteer is the last thing I'd do based on similar treatment I got to yourself at certain places near Guelph that shall remain nameless. 😌 I won't join any groups either. After the days, night and hours of filming and the nearly five bills I've dropped on the project, my fondest memory of the first time in nearly a decade I went photographing /videotaping was sitting at the ex at a picnic table and just watching the cars with my lunch. No cameras. Just music. That's the way I started enjoying the hobby. That's the way I like it.

    Glad to hear you got some projects lined up. With a workshop like that I would be looking for stuff to fix just cause. I wish I had that equipment and knowhow. Solder and pray was my method. It will be years before I foam again. Maybe I'll shoot some current stuff for posterity because I learned long ago to always shoot the new stuff. Even if you don't like it. I suppose all that's left of the old TTC are the RT cars. But they ruined them with that hideous paint or wrap job. They're pretty extra with a little rinky dink, five stop train set that blew nearly 300 million in eighties dollars to demo the Skytrain tech. 🤣

  23. Dunno where else to share this but this is a cool documentary about the Expo Express.

    ENJOY (if you can stand the terrible incidental music.) This video is so 1960s that if it gets any more 60s-er Steve McQueen would be narrating it. 🤣

     

    On 1/2/2020 at 10:05 AM, Wayside Observer said:

    Benefit?  None.  Trolling the foamers can be entertaining as is getting some of the ageing baby boomers riled up.

    I'm taking a break as well because there really isn't anything left to foam (that interests me) now that the CLRVs are gone. I shot over 24 hours of video on them and editing them will take years. 🤣 I need a break from foaming.

    Plus life calls.

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