-
Posts
2,879 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by Downsview 108
-
-
2 hours ago, York Transit said:
The floors were not the same as a CLRV.
They were orange. Like a light tan orange with raised round circular pegs. At least from what I remember of the 1990s. But I'm sure of it.
The doors were also a coffee brown. They were painted white during refurbishment in the 2000s.
There was a car that retained brown doors and special grainy looking floor, not the dark grey T1 style floor found in all the other cars. I think it was 3026-3027. Was this some sort of prototype car or something? I distinctly remember this car being different in the 2000s from all the others until it went for refurbishment. The perimeter seating at the car ends were also different in this car was different too. It wasn't flush and seemed as if it was arranged as a prototype to test perimeter seating.
Does anyone else know what car im talking about?
Oh right. I forgot about that floor with those raised circles.
-
On 8/24/2023 at 7:11 PM, 81-717 said:
Since today's the day, I thought I might as well ask: what did the original interior look like (not pre-2015, but original as-built in 1985)? According to wiki the cars received another rebuild (before the 2015 one) in the early 2000s, which included seating arrangements as well as "finishes that were used on the then new T1 subways cars such as flooring and seat inserts".
Given how the pre-2015 interior was a mix of faux woodgrain combined with T1 red/gray (not the best combination in my opinion), it got me wondering whether the original (pre-2000) interior was indeed similar to what was depicted in the mockup seen at Doors Open (faux woodgrain & orange, vinyl seats, etc), and it took not 1 but 2 rebuilds over a decade apart to fully changeover to the "modern" interior they got in the end? If the original interior of the 1980s was indeed different than in ~2000–2015, I couldn't find any photos of it.
The walls, ceilings and floors were the same colours.
The seats were like the original CLRV seats but maroon coloured.
The seating was parallel in the middle.
Perpendicular at the ends, with a double seat in front of a single seat.
Consider yourself lucky if you were slim enough to fit between those perpendicular double seats to access the single seats.
- 1
-
-
-
-
On 1/25/2023 at 6:14 PM, TransitMotorcoach said:
It already is sodom and gomorrah. Babylon.
It has reached the point of where dictator-type solutions are drastically needed, to be honest. Giving those drug-addicted and mentally ill vagrants the freedom to just roam around and act crazy is only making the problem worse each day. Institutionalize all of them, by force if needed, and drop the sledgehammer on those who engage in deviant-like behavior.
Toronto needs someone like Rudy Giuliani to finally put an end to this out-of-control crime tsunami.
SMDH
-
On 3/3/2020 at 11:37 AM, Wayside Observer said:
That Philips works the same way as any other non-autoranging meter does where you push the button to chose AC or DC, crank the knob to the V, mA, or Ohms range you want to use for your measurement, hook up the leads and read the result. It’s actually very similar to this one from Canadian Tire.
I fired up the other two Philips PM2423 nixie DMMs I have along with the PM2422 and hooked them up to the power supply. You can see a bit of difference in the readings between meters. Some of it’s probably the meters themselves but most of it’s probably attributable to less than good connections with the fast crappy hookup job I did to daisy chain them.
IMG_6890.MOV 6.22 MB · 0 downloads
It looks like I was able to squeeze in a short clip under the 10 MB post limit of the digits changing on two of them as the power supply’s output filter caps discharged after I switched it off but it isn’t the greatest footage I’ve shot so apologies for that.
The one on the left was another $10 Kijiji find and the one on the right was $80, so that’s $100 worth of vintage nixie multimeters there. The power supply was $40 and all of them came from Kijiji. There are deals out there but not on eBay where nixie tube stuff commands a collector’s premium and it is possible to set up a retro workbench without breaking the bank.
Yes, that’d be vacuum fluorescent displays for sure. It looks like that X10 controller has one too. They were common in VCRs and still are in microwave ovens.
The carrier medium for X10 is typically the power line so you’re already half hooked up by plugging it in and turning it on. I was just wondering if you’d hooked up any of the downstream devices elsewhere and used it’s control functions.
It wasn’t from a mechanic, it was from an instructor. Mechanics at trolley museums usually pretty good and stick to the facts or working theories as they’re understood to be (new information does come along and causes things to be revised in light of it as it does in any environment) and say so if they don’t know something instead of veering off into theories that are totally bonkers. Outside of shop staff, trolley museum people seem to vary wildly from what I’ve seen. As in all over the map.
Let’s do another.
The basis in fact behind the foam BS:
Someone was operating a streetcar with a conventional K type platform controller and straight manual lapping air brake valve very slowly but eventually got it up into parallel with a bit of speed.
The foam BS:
I’ll just quote this one. “She’s only running on one motor now and I can feel it, she’s getting tired.”
The truth:
If your streetcar is down to one working motor, regardless of whether it’s a two motor or a four motor car, you’d better be moving it with the dead motors cut out. When you do that, throwing any of the motor cut out switches in a K how platform controller, it causes a lever to move into position where it blocks the controller from being moved past full series. Since the streetcar did finally pick up some speed once the guy wound it up and got it into parallel, we know for certain it was on the full complement of motors. This one actually caused three of us to have a WTF moment among ourselves later. I was disarming people by saying my experience is mainly with operating and maintaining PCC cars and we had a good laugh at the way I framed it.
Anyways, electronics with K controller references, yes shhh it’s true I can do pre-1936 equipment too, but yeah we’d better not let HCRR see this post either. Actually, speaking of K controllers, HCRR, and trolley museums in general, the whole limit the streetcar to series only routine is usually accomplished by doing exactly that, throwing a motor cutout switch in the controller. There’s probably a good chance if you pop the cover off the controllers in 2424 or 2894 and cut all the motors in, you’d have the whole range back on those cars. Well, we’d definitely better not let them see this post!
Thanks for that. Nice video. I assume the machine at the top-right has a red filter to get the text to look that colour? I also noticed how quickly the numbers change without fading. I have never seen a Nixie tube display in person so I had no idea. Thought it would fade like a light bulb. I will definitely keep my eyes open on Kijiji or other places like estate sales if those are around. I don't have any electronics projects lined up (and haven't for years) but I'll find something if I can make use of a beautiful machine like that!
Oh ok. I don't have any devices compatible with the X-10 (at least to my knowledge) so I wouldn't be able to test if this thing still works. It was a bit dirty when I got it. I wonder. How did they keep a machine like this from turning off your neighbours appliances?
I see. You'd think instructors would simply ask the mechanics if there's something they don't know.
LOL thanks for that info. I haven't been to HCRR in nearly 20 years. I rode a couple Witts there a few times but they never made that motor whining sound. Does that series-limit have to do with that? The montreal suburban car and the snow plow I rode there once were pretty fast. Hard to believe those were in series. I imagine they have the old style controller as well. Do they even bring those cars out to ride anymore, by the way? I also remember riding the Rail Grinder (the old single truck one) but that wasn't going very fast.
-
19 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:
That Philips DMM was a $10 Kijiji find, believe it or not. Actually, come to think of it, that's the second nixie Philips DMM that was a $10 Kijiji find that I picked up. Both were listed as multimeters and neither of them mentioned that they had nixie displays so anybody searching by keyword for nixie wouldn't have had them turn up in their results but I was browsing multimeters in each case and saw the distinctive readout in the thumbnail pictures and was able to score each of them for the $10 asking price since I didn't haggle. I'll spin up the other one and take some pictures later today if I get a chance. I really should spin up the vintage gear more often than I do but that's another story.
Blue LEDs are a fairly recent innovation. Calculators and watches etc. got away from LEDs pretty fast because of the drain they have on batteries which is why they're all older and kind of scarce these days; their day ended before blue LEDs came out. Chances are what your friend had was a calculator with a vacuum fluorescent display. VFDs could have a strong blue tint to them between the colour of the phosphor used and the filter over top of the display being tinted blue to suppress the faint orange glow from the display's warm filament wires. I don't know for sure that they never made any but I can't think of any HP calculator that had a VFD display so what your friend had was probably made by a different company.
That's a nice X10 controller! Have you ever hooked any devices up to it? That's a good reminder that home automation and smart homes are not exactly a new thing and that the concept predates the internet by quite a large margin.
You are correct, the 4500 on the calculator was the foam. I threw it in because why not? There was an opportunity to work some foam in so I did. Speaking of foam, here's a random foam thought based on a conversation from a couple of weeks ago:
The basis in fact behind the foam BS: Braking takes precedence over power on PCC cars.
The foam BS: Because braking is a higher priority in power on PCC cars, it is impossible for PCC cars to experience brake failures.
The truth: Even though braking does take priority over power on PCC cars, PCCs can and do experience brake failures. Nobody has managed to build a vehicle yet that has made a brake failure an impossibility.
Does that Philips multimeter work just as any old multimeter you'd buy at Canadian Tire or The Source? If so, I am DEFINITELY getting me one of those. That is the coolest thing I've ever seen. And you must have been running red lights to get that deal before someone else scooped it up. It looks like it's worth a lot more than just $10 bucks. Sad to think that if that went that cheap, then there must be countless other vintage gems out there that people just threw away because no one wanted them.
I never heard of VFD. I always thought it was an early colour of LED but it has a very unique look to it. Is that the same thing that is on this X-10 unit? My friend's calculator may have been a SHARP brand, I can't remember. Basically the same display as an older printing calculator but without the printing. The buttons on those old calculators probably were designed to alert your teacher or professor if you were using one on a test when you weren't suppose to. They remind me of those old Jerrold converter box remotes. So tactile you need two fingers to depress the buttons.
I never hooked up anything to the controller. In fact, I don't think anything is supposed to hook up directly to it. I think it sends signals to whatever device it is controlling through the power lines. I found it in a random box of stuff I bought for maybe $7. Just thought it looked cooler than my $40 Dream Machine LOL. Keeps time perfectly I might add. It actually sets time faster than any clock radio I have ever seen.
LMAO touche. I see you've used a PCC streetcar reference next to electronic testing equipment. Pretty slick. Don't let anyone from HCRR see this post.
Was that brake theory an actual foamer theory that you heard? Hopefully not from a mechanic.
-
8 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:
Oh brother. I can see the giant hook coming out from behind the curtains at the side to drag you off the stage.
Very nice! I decided to go for broke and try to get some vintage analog, LED and nixie in the same picture all while doing something useful.
I picked up a vintage HP calculator for a reasonable price the other night since the battery pack was long gone and one of the corroded battery terminals broke off when the seller tried to clean it. The calculator also didn’t work when he tried to run it off the AC adapter either, which could have fried it since the calculator depends on a good battery pack being present to load down the incoming voltage so I had some testing to do:
Hook up a seriously old Canadian Research Institute power supply to the calculator. There was more than enough of the broken off terminal to get a clip lead to bite to.
Hook up a snazzy vintage Philips nixie DMM as a sanity check of the power supply’s voltmeter.
And there it is working. Luckily the calculator didn’t fry. Analog, LEDs, and nixies.
Here’s a closeup is the DMM measuring the output of the calculator’s adapter. It’s rated at a nominal 10 V AC out and here it is providing it. There’s an intermittent in the cord that must’ve saved the calculator from getting blasted when the guy selling it tried to power it up. I love how the far left indicator tube indicates the meter’s in AC though.
FOAM. Just for fun, I did put some foam into one of the pictures for you guys. Can you find it?
man that multimeter looks sweet.
As for the foam, I'm guessing the "4500" on the calculator.
Speaking of which, I think one of my classmates brought one of those old HP calculators to class but it had those old blue LEDs. Did HP make any like that? Maybe it was a different brand. I like that type of display as much as nixie tubes. I use an old BSR X-10 unit as a desk clock.
-
54 minutes ago, John Oke said:
He was telling them facts about the Streetcars and why 4001 is special
That's some next level game right there.
- 2
-
Write a country song about it.
- 7
-
On 2/24/2020 at 9:11 PM, captaintrolley said:
American television and film composer, Robert Cobert passed away Feb 19, 2020 at the age of 95.
For those who don't know, he did the music for the Price Is Right, the old Chain Reaction (which was actually the theme from the defunct show Supertrain) and also the music for the original $25,000 Pyramid. RIP
-
On 2/24/2020 at 7:29 AM, John Oke said:
Hold up were you the guy on the CLRV farewell trip (4001)who was being all nerdy and telling girls facts about the CLRV?
Come on, those are some solid pick up lines.
-Girl you look so good you make it go from an L2 to an L3!
-Girl you look so good I'd charter you just to get in your carhouse.
-Girl if UTDC made anything prettier I hope they kept it for themselves.
- 5
-
Some of these people demanding vehicles to be preserved would be better off putting the money up themselves and/or the wrench work in fixing them and machining unavailable parts if necessary.
A transit systems job is to move people in exchange for money. The more fit, comfortable and up to date the vehicles are the more money it can earn. Historic vehicles are simply a treat and lose more money than what they could earn if what went into them went into a regular vehicle. I love old vehicles as much as the next fan and I can pick out more than a few vehicles I wish were preserved (Flyer D700, E700, D800 and even the Flyer D901 which I hated and loved at the same time). But let's be realistic here about what it takes to keep historic vehicles around. Fans should be VERY grateful.
- 1
-
On 2/13/2020 at 9:17 PM, Doppelkupplung said:
The Leafs are such a frustrating team to support.
Said every leafs fan for the past 50 years.
On 2/15/2020 at 1:48 PM, PCC Guy said:Speaking of foamers, I had a really unpleasant interaction with one from Bratislava that really left a bad taste in my mouth.
There is a trolleybus in storage at one of their tram yards that is officially indicated as a historic vehicle, but in reality may be too far gone to save (a decision has not yet been made, and scrapping has not yet commenced). This bus is wildly unpopular in the community; I became a pariah when I defended the decision to designate it historic (on a value basis, not a condition basis - I accept not everything can be saved, but we also should not be letting purist manchildren dictate what should and shouldn't be kept). I was in contact with someone from the Bratislava transit community recently, someone who absolutely loathes this bus and everything it stands for, who indicated that they ("we") might end up stripping the bus before they begin restoration work on another bus - not to salvage parts, or anything, but just to lessen its chances of being restored even more. I have no way of verifying if this person was screwing with me, or if they really are going to end up doing this, or if that is even their decision to make. I don't know the ins-and-outs of how preservation works in Bratislava, maybe they have volunteers to restore buses, I don't know.
For all the shit that I give Toronto transit and the community, the one thing I'm glad about is that there's no danger of some deranged foamer being able to tear a CLRV to shreds because they have some kind of personal vendetta against the vehicle. The thought of these idiots being able to interfere in preservation decisions makes me sick.
So that's what the hobby has come to, huh.
We have to worry about the foam Taliban?
On 2/16/2020 at 3:35 PM, captaintrolley said:Why do cell phone providers make it so difficult to get through to them? Spent a few minutes on Rogers 'Live Chat', putting up with all kinds of BS scripted templates when the guy finally types back that my 'Pay As You Go' account is not supported by 'Live Chat' and he gave me a number to call. Spent a good 10 minutes on that pressing all kinds of numbers because none of their menu options dealt with my 'problem'. Finally got through to a real person. Took long enough. Anyhow, I did get my request for 'port protection' put in place. She said it would take 24-72 hours to activate the 'request'. One would think with all the talk in the media regarding phone number 'porting' that this request would be one of the menu options. Would sure save a lot of 'running around' on their menu options.
Welcome to the millennium. Where customer service comes to die.
- 2
-
22 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:
They were marked for the military. I couldn’t tell who OEMed them but they were bilingual marked for Canadian Forces. I guess it’s one way to secure your supply chain’s official issue stuff and a (probably weak) disincentive towards employee takehomes. The meters weigh in around six pounds or so. I put them on my kitchen scales and bottomed them out. I took some pictures for size for you.
Measuring 600 V with these or higher with the jacks on the high voltage option on the 635 isn’t a problem. The meters themselves are rated for up to 1,000 V against ground. They do predate the Cat I/II/III/IV type ratings on modern meters but people used these safely for that kind of work for many decades. Keep in mind they were originally to be used on vacuum tube and industrial gear where many hundreds of volts was typical run of the mill stuff. The biggest issues with doing it safely are using the right probes that are rated for that kind of work plus safe working techniques. Specifically, at the high end of the voltage ranges on the HV option, you want to connect and disconnect the meter with the device being tested off so you aren’t drawing an arc or at risk of shorting/grounding something out getting the leads on and off of it.
The beauty is, these meters don’t need batteries to take voltage or current measurements. Getting them mounted in their cases or removed from their cases is a chore so I haven’t put batteries in them which means resistance measurements don’t work but they’re otherwise good.
One of my outdoor thermometer readers bailed out so I decided to check the batteries in it so let’s give these old beauties a spin:
The 635 says a bit over a volt.
The 260 agrees.
And as a sanity check, so does one of the fancy pants DMMs on the bench. Oh, the display on the spectrum analyzer is from troubleshooting my audio analyzer...needed to see how pure the output is. It had been parked for a while and it’s developed a couple of annoying output problems. I need to pull it out and pop the cover off and check a few test points to see what’s going on...assuming the anti-electronics foam crowd doesn’t show up and go all Fahrenheit 451 on my workshop.
Thanks for those photos. They're about as big as I thought they were but I thought they'd be heavier considering the vintage. The top photo on the left gives an idea of how thick the leather is. You don't get leather like that anymore LOL. I always wondered how devices this small could handle so much voltage without getting ridiculously hot or frying the components. So if a foamer wants to check if we're lying about there being 600V coming out of the 3rd rail, he can grab one of these and check it for himself? That's cool but I'd rather use this for home use. Especially since you said they don't need batteries. What were the batteries for then?
Cool analyzer. I'd love to have a device like that to clean up my audio paths for my turntables for ripping. What's the floppy disk drive for though?
-
14 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:
Apparently the resemblance in logos is purely coincidental. I haven't yet been able to figure out when Wabtec acquired Bach-Simpson. Apparently B-S was building a lot of stuff for the railway industry even while they were independent which I guess is why they were an attractive buyout target for Wabtec, and that further muddies the waters...if the rail stuff was so compelling that Wabtec bought the company, does the meter get grandfathered... The appliances you had almost fall into the reverse situation. Were they made by Westinghouse before Wabtec and Wabco were spun off into independent companies?
I agree with your verdict of NO. Not foamer approved on the basis that device can be used to disprove foamer-fables and foam-theory for sure. The high voltage option on the back is great for that. To use it, you crank the knob on the front over to the 600 V AC or DC selection (foamer bonus) to enable the high voltage scaler and measure up to 6,000 volts, AC or DC. That takes you through traditional low voltage DC electrifications right through 1,500 V (Ottawa LRT, some interurban) and 3,000 V (interurban) plus the AC side of the substation rectifiers used to power any of those.
It does need some restoration work though. It didn't feel light enough so I was kind of suspecting the worse case scenario. I took the back off the meter and sure enough, there were military issue four AA batteries and a single D cell in there to provide the power for the Ohms function that were probably there 40+ years. The leaked crusty mess was unbelievable. I wish I took some pictures but force of habit got me and as soon as I saw the leaked batteries, I dug them out with a screwdriver right into the nearest garbage can to prevent them from doing anymore damage except there was no rush and I could've taken pictures because that ship had sailed and that damage was already done - a long, long time ago. Unfortunately, one of the battery holder clips for one of the AA cells had been fully surrounded by leaked acid and when I scooped that battery out, most of the clip came with the crusted acid. I was able to save the rest, at least prevent them from breaking so hopefully I can clean up the contact surfaces, but I'll have to get some thin sheet metal and cut a replacement with a pair of tin snips at some point.
The leather case is classic, for sure, but the one I truly love is the roll top desk case that my Simpson 260 is in.
It’s something you have to see and use first hand to truly get how cute this garage door or roll top desk case is when you open and close it. Anyways, this is another Bach-Simpson meter but it’s a 269 Series 7 so it’s surprisingly decent. I’ve never pulled it out of the case so I haven’t looked at the back. At least some of them were made in the US and badged for the Canadian market after manufacture in London was discontinued. I don’t have any dates or anything for that. Information on Canadian equipment companies from back in the day is damn hard to find and a lot of what little there is, is not on the Internet.
Cool. I can't really tell by the pictures; How big are these two units and how heavy are they? Forgive my ignorance, but is it dangerous to test high voltages like 600 volts through those? Also could you see what brand those batteries were? Or were they just unmarked? Leaked batteries are the worst. My most recent victim of leaked batteries was a nice Minolta SLR (it was the first one with auto focus I believe and a bunch of other electronic stuff). The battery compartment was crusted over and that may have cause it to stop working. Thankfully with machines like yours, they're so robust that you can fix the contacts yourself. I wonder, is there any way to power it besides batteries? I have never seen a case like that roll-top before. What's it made of? Plastic? I also dig the old "chicken head" knobs on those. I am going to keep my eye out for something like this. I'd hate for an elegant device like this to go to waste.
-
6 hours ago, 81-717 said:
Yeah, they're about as popular over there as the GM's were in North America. Budapest's cars aren't silver on the outside though - the classic ones were blue and the rebuilt ones are black and white. Maybe you're thinking of the 81-717.6K in Moscow which is painted gray & blue like the 81-760. The 81-717.6K only looks more modern than a classic 81-717, but is basically mechanically identical. The 81-717.2K on the other hand looks almost identical to the 81-717.6K (besides the colors) but actually uses modern technology.
To be fair I don't think NYC subways have a 40-50 year lifespan out of nostalgia either. Nostalgia is definitely there in terms of preservation of most types of cars, but they don't need to last that long to be saved. I wonder where they will store all the car types that will be retired in the future.
I see thanks for that. I'm gonna check out some more video on YouTube. I always liked those cars.
That's true about NYC. Their car orders are HUGE. Like hundreds and sometimes over 1000 cars. So any way they can save money they will. Money that they would also need to maintain or repair infrastructure. But NYC for the most part kept their cars for about 50 years. Some even lasted 60+ years like the Q-Type. As for retired cars, will they dump those in the ocean again? They could probably make another borough artificially with all those.
6 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:Well this is an interesting conundrum. Actually, it poses quite a conflict. I picked this little beauty up because it was cheap and it’s a neat piece of Canadian-made militaria that was built by Bach-Simpson down the road in London, Ont.
This is what an enlisted grunt would’ve used to do complicated electronics that you just can’t do in the army back in the day.
Bach-Simpson still exists in London today and this is where the interesting part comes up: Bach-Simpson is a subsidiary of Wabtec now, and every self respecting foamer out there knows the pedigree of Wabtec and sister company Wabco.
So, the great question: Is this device foamer complicated electronics that you just can’t do, or foamer approved equipment, or both at the same time?
I’m going to go away now and ponder that while I try to divide stuff by zero and contemplating other deep existential questions like, “Does Metrolinx do anything useful?” and “Will the Union Station Revitalization project be completed within my lifetime?”
Nice piece. And I love the leather case. Simpson Logo almost looks like the department store logo. I wonder if there's a connection there. As for your question, that's a tough one. If it was built before Wabtec took it over then it has no historic foamer connection, but then again, I had a White Westinghouse fridge once and a Westinghouse clothes dryer. Both of which could be foamer approved (thank god they've long since been discarded lest I have photographers with huge zoom lenses trying to get shots of the logos through cracks in my doors and windows). My final verdict is NO seeing as that device can disprove many foamer-fables and foam-theory as you've demonstrated more than once.
- 1
-
15 hours ago, 81-717 said:
Ah, I see. When you said windscreens I thought you meant windshield, so I was confused I would've thought that wooden/particle board materials would be more susceptible than plastic to deformation caused by heat and moisture though (during the spring some of the wooden doors in my house would expand slightly and no longer close properly).
Which ones are you referring to specifically? Lot's of subway systems throughout Russia and eastern Europe use(d) the same Russian-built cars (particularly 81-717s) built by the same manufacturers, some of which may have been customized for a specific subway system, either in terms of trivial design elements (color/paint, etc), or more significant things like the equipment used or being designed to use a narrower track gauge (Russian subway cars built for Budapest).
TBH I think the only reason all those transit systems rebuilt all those old Russian cars several times is the same reason why the TTC did the same with the GMs and was about to do the same with the T1s. I'm sure those transit agencies would love to replace them with new trains (and no doubt a lot of the public are sick and tired of seeing and riding 81-717s in all their entirety), but even though a lot of them do have other types of trains, they still opted for a rebuild of the classics. Actually, in the case of Budapest, there are some conspiracy theories surrounding the rebuild of the old Ev-3 and classic 81-717 cars into the 81-717.2K. The transit system went with the rebuild due to cheaper cost, but there were rumors that while the contract was a rebuild on paper, in reality the old cars were scrapped and the "rebuilt" cars were actually brand new extras left over at the factory. For what it's worth, the Russian subways are also designed to last 35 years, and unlike the E*-cars (the remaining ones in Moscow are over 45) I don't know any single 81-717 that actually made it to 40 (the ones in Budapest lasted 38-39). The only thing ensuring long-term longevity of the 81-717 series is the fact that the production line kept going through the mid 2010s.
I believe that's what those are called, windscreens. Maybe there's another word for them but I do believe they're there to keep wind from blowing on people sitting either side of them. As for the material, again, a lot of furniture today is made the same way. Desks, dressers, etc. All particle board covered in vinyl. Our cupboards are basically the same and they haven't warped. They're in the same condition as when they were installed.
Budapest I believe is the place. You just reminded me of it. Didn't know those cars were that popular.
Interesting info. I guess it depends also on how much of a nostalgia culture the agency has. Of course a place like NYC is going to keep their trains around for a long time because the subway is a culture there. Other places probably just wanna justify their capital budgets.
- 1
-
5 hours ago, 81-717 said:
True. Then again there are some cars that are far more modern (1980s) that also have a mostly metallic interior (walls, window frames and ceilings(?)), i.e. the R62 and R68.
I know the doors themselves are metal, and the M1s and TRs are the only ones to have them unpainted silver on the inside, but I was referring to the panels on both sides of the doors on the M1-T1 (the white bits on the M1s) - I'm pretty sure those are plastic on the H/T1 cars, so naturally I assumed the same for the M1.
Interesting. Now that I think of it, did the H1-4s also have metal ceilings like the M1s, and the H5-T1s & TRs have non-metal ceilings?
Those were the E-cars, which had several modifications throughout the 1960s and early 1970s, some of which were more like the Gloucesters than the original E-cars. But my favorite are the 81-717s which came out later (late 1970s onwards), some of which have faux woodgrain plastic (brown or cream) interiors similar to the H-cars. Those plastic interiors just have a nicer, smoother texture, especially the second one which is so smooth it's actually shiny (come think of it, I'm not sure whether it's plastic or metallic). Some of the modern rebuilds are even more plastic (even the metal window frames are gone), those are truly part of the plastic age.
I see. The door panels (windscreens) are actually as I described before. I've seen damaged ones and that confirms it. It is some kind of hard pressed particle board or fiberglass. If they were solid plastic, those metal bars wouldn't last very long screwed into them as they wood with particle board anchors. The surface however is vinyl or plastic. Just like the DIY furniture today. My desk is actually the same and as about as thick as those screens. Also, if they were plastic they'd be considerably warped from years of heat. Think those old red slides they used to have at the pre-nanny state public jungle gyms.
Yeah those cars H5-TR probably have similar panels. It's all about saving weight and thermal properties.
Nice. Isn't there some other subway somewhere on the planet that has the EXACT same subway cars? I can't remember where but I think they were unpainted silver on the outside. I wonder if it is really cheaper to buy new cars instead of rebuild seeing as so many agencies have rebuilt and modernized their own cars. The TTC retires their subway cars very early comparatively.
- 1
-
9 hours ago, 81-717 said:
Technically all subway cars since the M1's would go under the plastic age (plastic walls, window frames, door panels, etc), and I actually much prefer those as opposed to cars with incandescent lighting and lincrusta or wooden interiors (let alone wooden bodies), those just feel far too vintage for my liking (as if reminiscent of the 19th century). As much as I love the 1970s faux woodgrain styling (which is actually plastic), I definitely don't like real wooden interiors. Technically the Gloucesters were also part of the "plastic age" (unless the interior walls were metal), but they definitely feel less "plastic" and a lot more on the vintage side than the M1-T1 cars, hence why I prefer any of the latter (in this regard I even prefer the Toronto Rocket over the Gloucesters). Funny enough, the H1 interior never looks old in any pictures, it always looks smooth and shiny, the H4 interior actually kinda feels older than the H1.
I just can't believe that while Toronto got the "plastic" M1's and H1's in the 1960s, and New York got equally "plastic" cars in the 1960s like the R32, R38 and R42 (which, like all other NYC cars as well as the Gloucesters, and unlike the M1-T1 cars, have metal window frames and openable windows), Russian subways built in the 1960's look vintage as hell even compared to the G's. A lot of people have an appreciation for that vintage style, but I've come to the conclusion that I hate it in its entirety (can't believe I once thought it would look good in an H1-4!). Gotta give Kiev credit for rebuilding that archaic interior into something comparable to the modern designs of today (all the original equipment was also replaced with modern technology).
Nice photos. I'd still say the H1 color is better described as cream, and the H4 walls are about as "white" as the H6 floor.
The Gloucesters were most definitely NOT of the plastic age. Those babies were mostly steel (except the G2s) and build in the 50s just before the plastic age came about. The walls inside were not plastic. I liked the lighting in those though. I compare it to the difference between using those CFL or LED bulbs without the yellow filter and bulbs and those newer LED ones that more resemble incandescent. Just had a nice warm feeling to them. Plus those seats were really plush. The door panels on the M1s were not plastic LOL. Where are you getting this info? They were aluminum. I got a pic of those doors from the inside if I can find them. The wind screens on all cars are not plastic. They're more a kind of fiberglass or really dense particle board with maybe a layer for the colour like todays furniture which is particle board underneath and vinyl for the pattern. That's the same material that was used for the ceilings in the Gloucesters and other wall panels. Same with the M1s (except the ceiling which was metal). The only plastic on the M1s was the window frames. See pics below.
Those NYC cars, even though they are stainless steel instead of aluminum were built really well but to be fair, they went through two major overhauls. So that's why they're still around almost 60 years later. (R32). I guess it depends on what materials were available to them at build time and the objectives of their respective agencies. Early on the TTC wanted the lightest cars possible. They only went with the Gloucesters because the PCC subway cars were too expensive. I love those Moscow subway cars. They sort of look like half PCC/Half G2 Gloucester subway cars. The rebuild looks pretty nice too.
Well if you wanna get anal.
Cream would be more yellow as the surface vehicle version of "cream" paint. I'd still say it was white. Same shade they used on buses before the Novas. It wasn't as white as the Novas.
16 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:The interior brightness of the H1s is kind of tough to pin down because the way we experienced it was not what Hawker-Siddeley intended. Originally, the H1 interior lighting had a strip of fluorescents along the top and bottom of the enclosures that held the advertising cards and the rest of the interior was planned around that amount of light coming out of them. People complained that it was much too bright so the TTC removed one of the rows of bulbs and knocked the lighting down by half which meant from that point on the H1s were a lot darker inside than they were originally.
The interesting thing is despite that happening when the H1s were new, the trend in Toronto and elsewhere has been to crank the interior lighting right up over the last few generations of vehicles. Look how bright the new streetcars and the Toronto Rockets are inside and it's so bright that it's uncomfortable plus with the way the windows are slightly tinted on those, seeing out at night or while underground is very difficult.
Didn't know that. I've seen some fixtures for those at Lansdowne division and they looked like any other that was used system wide. About when did they remove the second row of lights? Maybe the colour scheme they used was to compliment that lighting which explains why those cars felt so dark inside.
I don't really like the surgical lighting either. I guess they want decent lighting for the security cameras.
- 3
-
On 2/1/2020 at 3:46 PM, PCC Guy said:
Perhaps I could, but the question is, with what money? A few of my dad's friends weighed in on this issue when it first cropped up, and they said that short of contacting the seller or Amazon customer support, without forking out for a really good lawyer I would be pretty much be SOL.
In the end I decided that the best course of action would be to contact Amazon customer support. They at first did not understand my inquiry, and then once informed, they assured me that they would end up "taking action" without asking for a modicum of proof from me. This was a couple of weeks ago and this listing is still up. Perhaps I should write to the seller directly instead. Fantastic
You're right. I guess the best thing to do is to not share full resolution photo, watermark them and host them on a site that disables downloading (even though there are browser plugins that can undermine that).
- 1
-
On 1/31/2020 at 11:52 AM, 81-717 said:
I guess it depends what one considers "white" (I remember wikipedia saying the H6s had "white" floors ). On the H5/6 (especially the H5 from what I remember), the lighting under the AC units at the ends of the cars was brighter than the rest, thus making the cream paint in that area appear whiter, whereas throughout the rest of the car it was noticeably yellower. I disagree however that the interior design was "designed to break your spirit on the way to work", I'd argue the complete opposite, since I find it to be a lot more appealing and uplifting than most others I've seen. If anything it's a lot (but not all) modern designs that are more likely to make one's daily commute to school/work boring and depressing (as a lot of people view commuting).
That's true. These newer vehicles just don't have the "soul" the older ones have. Plasticware for a plastic age.
Here's the number shots. I see what you're saying. The H1 "white" wasn't snow white but it wasn't as "off white" as the H4 paint. The H1s were definitely the darkest inside (besides the Gloucesters). So dark that it was very difficult to take photos without flash in them. hell, even if you had flash it was still hard.
- 3
-
On 1/17/2020 at 5:25 PM, PCC Guy said:
OK I am officially fucking PISSED. Imagine my shock to open Amazon today and find that someone stole a photo of CLRV 4041 that I shot at Queen's Quay and Lower Spadina on the evening of June 7, 2016, and is making a pretty penny selling a t-shirt of it!! Holy crap!! Officially licensed my ass.
I'm immediately looking in on what can be done about this. The NERVE of some people in this community!
I am positive you can take legal action.
This is seriously making me reconsider uploading videos. I will never upload my photos again that's for sure. Transit Toronto stole a few of my scans and photos and made up some BS name until I made them credit me or cease and desist.
- 3
Scarborough RT
in Greater Toronto Area
Posted
Yes, a storage unit for yuppies (starter condos).