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V3112

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  1. I feel honoured to have helped you keep your mind sharp during what I'm sure must be a tough time for you. I wish you the best, and hope you get better soon. Returning to buses... The 6 and 16 had a shared interline corridor with the 12-E Cherry and 12-Judkins Park branches. The 16 also went all the way up Meridian to 145th. At a later date, the 6 (which ran on 5th Ave N) instead looped via 5th, Union, 3rd, Cedar, return onto 5th Ave N. Later still, this was changed again to Aurora instead of 5th Ave N, and using 3rd in both directions downtown (with a timing point at 3rd Ave S & S Washington). When was the 16 truncated to Northgate TC? Which routes replaced bus service on Meridian north of Northgate? When did the 6 get moved onto Aurora/3rd through SLU/Downtown? When did the 6/12/16 interline corridor get replaced with 12N/12S, 16/21, and 6 by itself? The 15 and 18 each had one Ballard branch, and two West Seattle branches. The 15 had a shared corridor on Admiral Way SW, as far as SW 49th St, then split. It would then either take the current-day 57X routing to the Junction, or continue to 63rd Ave SW, Beach Dr SW, north on 48th Ave SW to the Junction. Meanwhile the 18 would route via Avalon, Fauntleroy Way to the Junction, then continue south on California as far as SW Morgan. From Morgan Junction it would either continue to the Fauntleroy Ferry Terminal, or to 41st & SW Ida. What were the operation patterns and frequencies for the 15/18 in the STS days? Were there any night shuttles? When did the 49 (Genesee-Gatewood) get split into the 22 Gatewood and 23 Genesee? When was the 23 absorbed by the 56? How did service patterns change? (I only know that before the 56/57X split in 9/98, the 56 would alternate on the Admiral Way branch and the Genesee Hill branch, with each branch getting hourly service.) What were the service patterns and routings for the 15F and 18F Flyer routes? Which routes replaced 15F/18F? When did the 18 Fauntleroy branch turn into the 54 and get extended to White Center? This question is somewhat related. In the STS days, the 37 ran down the Viaduct, old West Seattle Bridge, 26th SW, Harbor/Alki Ave, Admiral, California, Hanford, 37th, Manning, 35th to the Junction. When did the 37 take over the 15's routing on Beach Dr SW? Also somewhat related, what were the 5's interlines in the STS days, before the modern 5/54/55 interline corridor was established? Some more questions: When was the MLK restructure? (The one that telescoped the hourly 42/142 service into half-hourly 42 + shared 106/107 corridor)? Did the 42 start running down Renton Ave S all day at the same time? And did the 48 get its alternating half-hourly service down MLK (to either Henderson or 38th & S Genesee, plus evening trips to MLK/Walden only) at this time, or in 1978? When did the 31 Beacon/Seward Park and southern part of the 1-Ferdinand get telescoped into the new 36? When were trolley wires extended from S Ferdinand to S Dawson? In the STS days, what was the 39's interline? Did the 23 South Seattle and 32 South Park both run hourly, interlining with half hourly 17 trips? Did STS-era 130/132 ever interline with the 17, or STS-era 136/137 with the 19? What was the 20's interline in the STS days, before the 11-20 interline corridor? When was the Dumar/16th routing discontinued? What use did the 7's loops at S Graham St, S Rose St and S Fletcher St get? Which route did the 28 interline with in the STS days, and when was the interline pair changed to 56?
  2. Expanding on Roamer's anecdote about the Ballard-West Seattle transit corridor on 1st Avenue: Between the Sept 2001 changes and RapidRide C/D launch, the following pattern was in effect. Until 6:30 pm Mon-Sat, Routes 15 and 18 ran every 20 minutes each, for a combined 10 minute headway between 15th & Leary (north approach to the Ballard Bridge) all the way into downtown Seattle. For each of the 3tph on Routes 15 or 18, 1tph continued as Route 21, 1tph continued as Route 22, and the third trip continued as Route 56. Both Ballard routes cycled through the three West Seattle routes 20 minute intervals. On weekdays during PM peak only, inbound 15/18 trips that would have normally continued to Route 56, continued to Route 57X instead. (In the opposite direction, during AM peak, Route 57X ran via 4th Avenue to 7th & Blanchard, instead of interlining.) After 8:00 pm or so, Route 15 would loop through Blue Ridge then have an extended wait at 15th & 85th, while Route 18 do the same at 24th & 85th after looping through North Beach. This was not uncommon among urban routes, the 7 started doing this in 2001 (doubling back to the Henderson St loop from Prentice St during evenings), this was also present on the 21 All other times, including all day Sundays, Route 15 ran every 30 minutes and interlined with Route 21 only; Route 18 ran every 30 minutes and interlined with Route 56 only. Route 22 trips live-looped downtown. Express trips continued to 2nd & S Main St then deadheaded to Central Base, and vice versa. I'm not sure what the pre-1998 West Seattle-Ballard interline pattern was, especially with the pesky 15 Night Shuttle complicating things. This was back when Route 28's interline was with Route 56 instead of the 39 (and when Genesee Hill service was an hourly branch of the 56), so I'm guessing most 15/18 trips live-looped downtown because the only other interline was with Route 22. But then again I don't know if the 15/18 ran every 20 minutes before 1998, either. I'm going to read over the later posts because there's a lot more I want to say
  3. If the 135 ran out of South Base, that would explain why it didn't get any interlines, while the 125 (which ran out of Central) did. It would also explain why the 174 (which also ran out of South Base) terminated near CPS instead of interlining. Well, that and it was a "horrifically long and slow route" as you might call it. I'm going by the assumption that the 139 used 30' Gilligs out of South Base, and that the 11 was also moved from Ryerson to Central in 2004. As for 631 (and 635 as a matter of fact), I don't know whether Hopelink vans get their own separate base, or such vans continue to run out of South Base. Was the 128 placed at Ryerson or South when it started in 1998? Apparently one of the Magnolia routes used to interline with the old 31 Beacon Hill? Roamer, you may know about this
  4. Shows how much I know; I always thought the 20/120 ran out of Central. How about the other West Seattle and Highline routes (pre-1998 50, 128, 135/138, 139, 631 DART)? Central, Ryerson, South? When was the 120 moved from Ryerson to Atlantic? Photo from Zack Willhoite of a 3200 on the 174 is attached. And that brings up another question. What were the buses used in the pre-Gillig era at North and East? For some reason I don't know. Furthermore, how did Bredas end up on a non-tunnel route? I thought they were exclusively for tunnel routes. Were Central/Mercer/Jefferson the original Seattle Transit bases? And when did Atlantic stop being a trolley-only garage, and get diesels?
  5. The early 90s version of The Book shows a layover routing via Virginia instead of Blanchard, and skips Westlake. When did this change occur? 174_Jun1987.pdf
  6. I saw the term CPS and my mind immediately went to Child Protective Services instead of Convention Place Station...of course, doy. The 174 didn't move into the tunnel until it reopened in 2007, I thought? The "classical routing" as I understood it was North on 4th, east on Virginia, south on 9th to the layover point NS Stewart (across from where the Seattle Children's building is). Returning to S Federal Way P&R via west on Stewart (the first stop was on the farside of the intersection, where 818 Stewart is located now), south on 2nd to reach 4th Ave S. While yes, the 174 was well-aligned with the AcRd to Convention Place, I don't think it ever ran in the tunnel until 2007. It was always via 2nd/4th using 1400s, 2000s and later 2300s (did 3000s/3200s ever see service on the 174? Not sure) Now the 194 to my knowledge has always been a tunnel route. What a bummer. How long have 2300s been running on the 120/125? It feels like decades now. Does Metro not want to put 8200s on 120/125 because they're higher-mileage Central Base routes? (They're both long routes and frequent as well, so I guess they have a high amount of passenger-miles.) Or on 60' trolley routes because of the hilly sections?
  7. Was the 174's terminus located at 9th & Stewart because it was the location of the (former) Greyhound station? Also, the 7300s look ugly as heck. Any 8200s running on the 44/49/70? How about on the 120/125? (Or is it all DE60LFs and Orions for those two routes?)
  8. Yeah apparently there was quite a bit of bus service to Lake MacDonald/Highlands/Fairwood/Kennydale 20 years ago. Nowadays that part of the county is an affluent area of mostly detached single family homes, so I guess bus service was shifted to higher-demand areas.
  9. I found another bonanza: more county ordinances detailing historical service changes (the Metro website only lists changes as far back as 1999) Sept 1998: https://aqua.kingcounty.gov/council/clerk/OldOrdsMotions/Ordinance 13166.pdf Sept 1996: https://aqua.kingcounty.gov/Council/Clerk/OldOrdsMotions/Ordinance 12269.pdf 101 replaced the 147 right? I haven't studied the evolution of the SE Seattle/Renton bus network in much depth but it looks like the 42 has gone through a lot of changes since 1973. Am I correct in saying that the areas of Lake MacDonald/Kennydale/East Renton Highlands formerly served by 106/107 (until 1998) and 147 (until 1996) are now transit deserts when the 111/114 aren't running? (Which is most of the day.)
  10. 12 minute service on the 116 is a big deal. Suncrest/South Slope was one of the more ignored regions under the BC Liberals; and Big Bend/Riverway/Glenlyon (which is home to a lot of tech companies) is almost a transit desert. I wonder if the 100 will have high enough demand in the future to become another B-Line route. 7 minutes in peak is crazy. Speaking of B-Lines, I know that the plan is for 43/430/239/701 in 2019, but what about in the long term? Might the main arteries in Burnaby/New West (Willingdon, Kingsway/6th, Canada Way/8th) also deserve B-Lines to replace the 19/106/119, 130 and 123? Also, and this is just me busfanning, maybe a second north-south B-Line in Burnaby. There's no easy way of getting from Edmonds/Middlegate/Big Bend to Montecito/Greystone/SFU/Capitol Hill without a car; you have to take milk run buses (101, 133, 144) or otherwise take the Skytrain around (which may require a transfer). The convoluted street network/mostly SFH zoning in East Burnaby would definitely would make this impracticable though (not to mention the railway crossing at Cariboo Road)
  11. When are Horgan and Transportation Minister Claire Trevena going to greenlight the SFU gondola already? Riding the Hamilton 7200s up to Burnaby Mountain on the 144 is a painful experience.
  12. Yeah but that's the thing Northwesterner: which routes counted as "busy" in the 80s and 90s? There were so many changes: the new high-level (1984) and low-level (1991) West Seattle Bridges, the opening of the DSTT, the 97 and 98 restructures, trolley wires returning to Fairview Ave N, I-695, the opening of Bellevue Base...it was a dynamic and ever-changing landscape. Here, I'll list out all the routes which I know for a fact that 2000s operated on, based on photos and newspaper articles I've seen: 7, old 25, 35 (lol), 36, 7_X (during weekends), 174, 194, 266, pre-2002 307, 358/359. I remember you telling me that back in the 62/68 days, sometimes the loads were large enough to warrant a 2000. (Was that out of Ryerson or North?) I've also seen photos of a 2300 on the old 136, even though the other photos of Highland Park buses I saw used 3000s or 3200s; so I could presume that 2000s were also used for certain trips. This also applies to the 23 that replaced the 136/137, I've seen a diverse mix of 2300s, 2600s, 3200s and 3600s. The revised 131 that replaced the 23 is mostly 8000s/8200s with some 3600s. Which specific city routes (this includes certain North Base routes like the 302/305 which ran on Roosevelt) were more likely to get 2000s most of the time besides the ones I mentioned (7, 36, 7_X on weekends, 174/194 (at least I *think* the 174/194 ran out of Central), 307, 358)? Were 2000s seen on the 43/44 during weekends, or was it all 3000s and later 2300s? How about the 302/305/66 and 67; did 2000s ever run on those routes? Or was it 1600s/3200s only? Stuff like that. I would be so grateful if you could fill in my knowledge gaps, since you were an operator back in the 80s and 90s. And, were there any clues that you used, back when you were an operator, to deduce when certain 40' trips on less busy routes might be overloaded? e.g. Maybe the 48 would use 2000s instead of 3000s in the afternoons when Garfield HS let out. Does this mean the 1987-2005 9 ran out of Atlantic, then got moved to Ryerson after the 49 split? Or that 4000s were placed at Ryerson for the 9?
  13. Just to be clear (I know rickycourtney already told me this but It's nice to get a second opinion), most of these future procurement are going to the suburban bases? That is: Once the 7300s arrive at Bellevue Base, they'll displace XDE40s to South, which will displace most of South's Orions to Ryerson. Ryerson will then displace their D40LFs to North Base and retire some other coaches, leaving only a handful of 3600s left there. Therefore, the fleet at the city bases will be delineated by trolley (4300s/4500s @ Atlantic), 40' diesel (7000s @ Central, 7000s/3600s @ Ryerson), and 60' diesel (8000s/8200s @ Ryerson, 2600s/8200s @ Central), which will be the standard for years (decades?) to come. The 6200s+ and 1200s will go to Atlantic for RapidRide service, but neither the 7500s-7700s, nor the 8300s+ or any of the battery-charge procurement, will be headed to Central or Ryerson. Am I correct in this?
  14. I said that one of the county documents I posted detailed the 1997 restructure in NE Seattle. I was wrong. This is the correct document: http://aqua.kingcounty.gov/council/clerk/OldOrdsMotions/Ordinance 12644.pdf According to Richard DeArmond (former SFU professor and trolleybus geek), the 9 was resurrected as of 6/15/1987 as a weekday only route, to combat overcrowding on the 7 between downtown Seattle and the Graham St loop. It only ran M-F until 8:30 pm (hourly) initially, but it was extended to 10:00 pm as of the Feb 1999 service change. I don't know when hourly headways on the 9 were increased to half hourly. Replaced by a diesel semi-express (still retained the routing through Cherry Hill) on 6/11/2005, the first Monday after the 7/49 split. I think it used 2300s and 2600s from Central. Did diesel 9s use 2000s (MAN SG-310), 3000s (Americana) or another kind of bus? Thanks for the history on Wayne Hom. I think his art is the basis for Metro timetable maps to this day. I would have envied his patience. What I liked about the 2300s was their imposing presence, their flip-dot signs, the small quirks like the notch at the back to fit the powerful Cummins M11 engine, that mighty roar that pnwelevator loves so much. But like you said, they were noisy, and the ride wasn't as bad as the Frankenbredas but still pretty rough. By the way, is it known which routes regularly got the 2000s, which got the 3000s, which got the 1400s, and which got other types of buses? (1600s, 1100s, etc.) I'm not counting tunnel routes or trolley routes. Here's a list of urban routes that I am assuming were primarily assigned to either the SG-310s or the 40' Americanas, based partly on photos from Peter McLaughlin and the late Zack Willhoite: 2000s: 5/54/55, 358, 11/20 (125), 15/18/21/22/56/57X, 16, 26/42, 28/39, 36 diesel, 48, 120 3000s: 8, 17/130/132 (23), 24/136/137 (131/132), 25/27, 31/68, 33/37, 60, 66, 74 (30) However, I've seen photos D60s/DE60LFs on the 17/23, as well as photos of 3200s on the 20 and 125, and 3200s/3600s on the 23, 26, 28, 131 (both pre and post RapidRide C era) and 132. I've seen a photo of a 3200 on a 136, and another photo of a 2600 on a 136. So I'm probably missing a whole lot of edge cases here. Furthermore, northwesterner, you told me that select trips on the 8 got ex-South 1850s (during the short time when the 35 footers displaced by 1100s were moved from South to Ryerson), and those Flyers ran on the 74 between UW-Sand Point before that. These are just more examples of edge cases that I don't know about.
  15. Does Metro release ridership breakdowns on a per-route basis? e.g. Route 7 had an average weekday ridership of xyz in 2017, the total number of boardings on Route 7 was xyz in 2017. I'd especially like to see a further ridership breakdown across different times (average/total number of boardings during peak, off-peak and evening)
  16. Here in Vancouver there were CCF Brills from the 1950s running until 1984. March 24, 1984 to be exact. By then, all the E901As and E902s had been delivered. I couldn't find any information on what the number of the last coach was, or the route that it was on before returning to Oakridge for the last time. However, newer trolley buses (so to speak) had run alongside the Brills. In 1975, BC Hydro stripped the GE propulsion systems from a few dozen of the T-44s and placed them in D800 shells provided by Western Flyer. This gave birth to the famous "Triesel" variant of the Flyer E800 (other E800 customers, like SF MUNI, used totally brand new propulsion systems also from GE) Sort of like how Metro recycled the propulsion systems from the 10240Ts and put them in Gillig trolleys (except without the new Kiepe fibreglass poles). The recycled propulsion systems reduced the E800s' lifespan, and they were retired in 1985ish, notwithstanding a brief period in which some coaches were returned to service to handle Expo 86 demand. Between 1987-1989, these coaches had their trolley poles removed and were refitted with DD 6V71N engines, plus drivetrains from the retired D700As, then moved to Burnaby. By late 1995 they were renumbered into their permanent series (V1109-V1110, B1111-B1157). The triesels started to be retired for good some time when the 1998 D40LFs started arriving at BTC, those that weren't stored were transferred to Surrey. The last triesel trip was on B1131, on March 19, 1999. Oakridge kept V1110 (2645/5194/3152) and V1109 (2649/5198/3151), with the poles still retained, as vehicles for de-icing trolley wires. Both were preserved by TRAMS in 2001, but V1109 was resurrected during CMBC's trolleybus shortage in 2007. The coach was returned to TRAMS at a later date, and given its original number in 2013. V1110 was parted out in 2010.
  17. I stumbled across some historical documents hosted on the King County Council website. This looks to be an early-mid 90s version of The Book: http://aqua.kingcounty.gov/council/clerk/OldOrdsMotions/Ordinance%2011033%20attachment.pdf This ordinance details the NE Seattle restructure in 1997: http://aqua.kingcounty.gov/council/clerk/OldOrdsMotions/Ordinance%2012743.pdf These were found through Google; I tried cross-referencing them with the County's legislation search page, but could only find references to Ordinance 11033 or 12743, in other ordinances. The 90s version of The Book has some interesting history: Route 19 and Route 47 still existed Showed Route 43/44 as separate routes, with Route 45X as a proposed route for the Feb. 1994 service change, so the date of this document could be pinned down to mid-late 1993 Service on 49th Ave SW/Genesee Hill was grouped into Route 56 instead of being Route 57X (I don't know if service to Genesee Hill was limited to peak-hour semi-express service before 9/98) Showed old Routes 62 and 30 going through Magnolia (the part that became new Route 31) Route 42 used to run to Renton Ave S @ 78th in Skyway (I think that part got replaced by the 107?) Still shows Route 26/28 on Westlake, with Route 17 using Dexter (plus the Route 29 Broadview-DT Blue Streak) 15/18 interlined with 22 (I'm guessing a lot of buses from Ballard terminated downtown), and 28 interlined with 56 Showed Route 6 live looping as far as S Washington St, the same routing used by Route 358 and later by the RapidRide E Line. From the "0322-A (3-80)" at the bottom of that page, I'm guessing the Route 6/21 interline was replaced with Route 16/21 in March 1980. Many routes feature a photo of the corresponding type of coach on that route. So 40' trolley routes (2, 10, 13, 14, etc.) had a 10240T, 60' trolley routes (7, 43) had an SGT-310, 60' diesel routes (36) had an SG-310, etc. It showed "Route 9". But, I was under the impression that the old #9-Broadway was absorbed in 1978 as the #7-University District via Broadway, and the route number 9 was not used again until 6/2005 (when 7N was spun off as 49) as a diesel semi-express from Aloha St to Rainier via Cherry Hill. Not only did Route 9 exist before that, apparently it was a 60' ETB route! When did this Route 9 II, so to speak, come into service? I have to say, documents like this are an interesting look back at how transit planning in Seattle looked like before Metro launched its website in 1999. Onto other news...the suburban bases have been getting all sorts of shiny new buses as of late. 7200s at Bellevue Base 3700s at Bellevue/South/North Bellevue Base will also be getting lots of 7300s, and additional 4600s South Base is getting a handful of 7300s, and all the Slow Charge Pilot buses And I was just wondering, will garages that serve urban routes (Central and Ryerson) be getting new buses anytime soon? Particularly 40 footers. Of course Atlantic Base has lots of shiny 4300s/4500s for the trolley routes, and the 8/24/26X/27/33/45/48 get shiny 8000s, but there are still shoebox 3600s, 2600s/2800s, etc. on some urban Seattle routes, while the suburban bases get brand new 40 footers. If I had to guess, maybe since a large chunk of the urban fleet is ETBs or RapidRide, 3600s and 7000s are seen as new enough for the lower-mileage urban routes (at least the ones not already covered by 60' coaches e.g. 31, 32, 38, 50), and Metro is focusing new bus procurement for the higher-mileage suburban routes. But that's only a guess. I also appreciate that plenty of urban routes come out of North Base (65, 75, 345/346, etc.), and to limit the definition of "urban" bases to Central/Ryerson/Atlantic is disingenuous. But, in my defense, the lion's share of routes that operate completely or largely within city limits, are operated out of those three particular bases. I don't know if any city routes are operated out of South Base, maybe the 106/107?
  18. After a lot of trial and error, asking around on GIS Stack Exchange, and pulling my hair out, I was finally able to modify a route shapefile in ArcGIS to mirror historical data, using one of the basemap layers as a guide. The route in the attached screenshot is old Route 68 (the old 25th Ave NE bus), which was derived from the shapefile of the current Route 372 which I got from King County's GIS datasets. I still haven't properly looped the polyline feature through Northgate TC, but I'll just savour the small victories for now. What my goal is next is to continue in this fashion, deriving other retro (pre-Transit Now) routes in NE Seattle: 41, 64X, 65, 66, 67, 71/72/73X, 74, 330, etc. I'm not sure if I'll do the Flyer routes (76, 77, 79), but I may change my mind before long. Then I'll convert the shapefiles into vector graphics and try to overlay them on a street map in Illustrator (maybe using the GIS-derived street map PDFs that Atomic Taco suggested). For now, I'll stick with NE Seattle since there's one focal point (UW) for bus routes, then I might move on to routes in the rest of the city.
  19. So I won't have to visit each constituent municipality's website (burienwa.gov, shorelinewa.gov, ci.seatac.wa.us, desmoineswa.gov, etc.) for GIS basemap-derived PDFs? I can get them all from seattle.gov? (Or maybe kingcounty.gov, though I'm not sure.) Alternatively, I have access to ArcGIS Desktop 10.5, so maybe I could use one of the Esri-supplied basemaps (e.g. "Imagery with Labels") available in ArcMap, and somehow import a portion of said basemap into Illustrator.
  20. Hey Oran (or anyone else who might know), if one were to draw over a street map in Illustrator, how would one make the lines look straight, clean, and georeferenced as though they came from a GIS shapefile? Whenever I freehand draw lines (e.g. in Paint), it always looks like a mess. e.g. In the "evolution of the Aurora corridor" map , the lines look as though they were sourced from GIS shapefiles instead of being drawn freehand. How can I get that effect just from freely drawing over a street map in illustrator? Furthermore, what's a source of a street map that covers a large enough area (stretching from N 145th St all the way down to SW 152nd St, etc.), but also detailed enough that it doesn't gloss over street-level details? Preferably in PDF, SVG, or some other Illustrator-friendly format. Maybe the Openstreetmap API? I really have no idea how to get such a large, yet detailed, map. Finally, how would one go about creating their own historical route dataset using ArcGIS?
  21. OMG, the legend himself replied to my post! Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! You've given me a treasure trove of information that will allow me to get started right away. One question I have for now is related to making maps of historical routes in Illustrator. Suppose I want to draw out the old 54/55 route, you're saying I don't have to go through the trouble of pouring over GIS data? That I could just just draw lines in Illustrator on top of a pre-existing street map? Then I wonder if I could create something like a "Seattle Transit Map, c. 2003" without having to worry about shapefiles. Showing Ryerson routes/174/194 using 2nd SB/4th NB, 39/136/137/174 going down 4th Ave S, the old Route 9 ETB route, etc. Could all this be done just drawing lines over a map in Illustrator? Or would it be easier to use King County GIS data and then hand-draw the edge cases in Illustrator? (e.g. export the Route 26X and 62 shapefiles to SVG, then isolate the [40th/Latona-Woodlawn/Ravenna] portion of the 26X shapefile, and the [Downtown-Fremont Bridge-40th/Latona] portion of the 62 shapefile, and link them manually in Illustrator to create a linemap for the old Route 26.) Finally, where do you get your historic system maps? I'm guessing the Allen Library at UW. For online sources, I am mostly limited to the Internet Archive. Besides that, the only resources at my disposal are the 70s-90s system maps that are on Flickr, and GuyOnBeaconHill's Page 2 posts on STB. I live in Vancouver, B.C. so I don't have access to the maps at UW.
  22. Thanks, northwesterner. When you say that 4020 went out quietly, am I to presume that information about the exact date when 4020 retired, and its last route, was not released to the public? e.g. the last Breda bus, coach 4243, had a farewell ceremony on October 27, 2016 at 1:00 pm (at Beacon/Spokane, the old Jefferson Park terminus from the Route 3 streetcar days) before making one last trip to downtown as a NB 36. It then deadheaded to Atlantic Base via the standard routing of Lenora, 1st, 7th, Virginia, south on 3rd back to AB. This was all announced by Metro and lots of media swarmed on the event. Perhaps coach 4020's last day and last trip was not revealed to the public ahead of time. I mean, even coach #900 got a pretty good sendoff back in 2003. On a different subject, what sort of skills are necessary to create maps like these? https://www.flickr.com/photos/viriyincy/4123293273/sizes/o/ https://i1.wp.com/seattletransitblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Aurora_corridor_1997-2011-future.png?ssl=1 Anecdotally, I've heard that you have to use ArcGIS for the base map, then use an SVG editor like Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator to actually draw out the routes. Well, I actually have access to a computer with ArcGIS Desktop 10.5, and Illustrator CC, and I have zero idea on how to even start a project like this. Do I get the base map from ArcGlobe, or ArcScene, or ArcWhatever? Alternatively, I could also ask on the Skyscraperpage.com forums.
  23. On which date was the last SGT-310 retired, what was the coach number, and to which route was it assigned for its last trip?
  24. The June 07 Book that Atomic (by way of Oran Viriyincy) gave me says the 48's major change was 7/88, so I'm assuming the 48/50 split occured in June 1988 (were service changes being scheduled for February/(June)/September a relatively recent occurrence?) I guess the current 156 (Southcenter-McMicken Heights-Highline College) and 154 shuttle (Tukwila Station-Boeing Industrial-Federal Center South) are more efficient than the old 170 (which went all the way to/from downtown Seattle) and 173 (between the S 320th St P&R and Boeing Industrial). Kind of like how service to Highland Park, Park Lake and Seahurst were split up into three disparate routes instead of the convoluted 136/137 plus the 139 loop: alternating local (4th Ave S/Highland Park/White Center, as far as Burien TC only) and express (4th to the 1st Ave S Bridge and SR 509, continuing to Seahurst) services, each with 1 hour headways, combined for effectively a 30 minute headway through the Industrial District and Highland Park, hourly service down either Ambaum (augmented in the peak direction by the 135) or through Park Lake and to Highline Hospital. The 23 (Downtown-White Center) covered Highland Park, the 128 (Admiral District-Tukwila) covered Park Lake, the 123E covered the commuter "Flyer" passengers that live in Seahurst and work downtown. The only downside is, overall bus service in Seahurst/to Highline Hospital has been greately reduced (the 139 ran much earlier/later than the current DART 631 bus). While I understand why it's important to keep direct bus routes to Federal Center South (it's a large military installation (Pacific Northwest HQ for the Army Corps of Engineers), plus it's the main office installation for U.S. government employees in the region), I thought there's no longer anything at Plant 2 besides MoF. In fact, I was under the impression that when Boeing moved its HQ from Georgetown to Chicago in 2001, it immediately closed and tore down Plant 2 and replaced it with wetlands (restored due to an agreement between Boeing and the Duwamish people). Actually, I'm shocked that bus service on E Marginal north of 1st Ave S is so bad considering how important of an employment center it is. Only the 113 "Flyer" route to Shorewood, limited service from the North Highline "Flyer" buses (operating in the peak direction only), and the 154. Some notes/musings: The 21 being moved onto the 1st Ave corridor happened before King County Metro had an internet presence, so you'll have to excuse me for not knowing about that! I read a Seattle Transit Blog post about the 1999 Aurora restructure, and from what I read, the 6 was a long and route. (2-3 stop spacing?!) Imagine having to go from Aurora Village all the way to Arbor Heights and back again. It would be like the 22 Knight (TransLink), starting at Dunbar Loop, going through downtown and down Knight, crossing the Knight Street Bridge into Richmond (some trips do do this, they're signed as "22 Knight via Industrial"), then continuing on Bridgeport/No. 3 Road to Richmond Centre. This is all pre-Canada Line of course, Richmond Centre is now Richmond-Brighouse Station, plus the 22 currently (as of 6/27/16) runs as far as downtown only due to construction on Burrard. The 20 might have interlined, but its replacement, the 120, does not. Maybe it's too frequent to be paired up with a suitable Central Base route? It doesn't help that the 120 is going to become RapidRide H Line in 2020; I don't think any RapidRide routes interline. The June 07 Book says "New 6/97", so I'm assuming that the 66 replaced the 302/305 as part of the June 1997 service change. I'm also assuming that the 302 of which you speak is not related to the later incernation of the 302, which replaced the 318 up Meridian/to the Four Freedoms Retirement Home when the Bush Administration pulled funding for the route in 2002 (and in turn got replaced by the 345 in the 2003 Haller Lake restructure). Why wasn't a second attempt made to interline the 16 and 66 to save on resources? Were they, like the 120, too frequent to get paired up with another Central Base route? When I first saw this part of your post, I did some extra research on the 8 since the only thing I knew was that it started in 1995. GuyOnBeaconHill made a Page 2 post on STB about the origins of the 8, how MoMS/KCM was absolutely unwilling to develop a crosstown Denny route due to a perpetual shortage of buses in the 80s, how Capitol Hill BIA and GroupHealth Cooperative had to plead with Metro for decades for the route--eventually, Metro only agreed because they were able to cut service on several trolley routes (e.g. 43 was reduced to 30 minute headways on Sundays), and stuck 35' Flyers on the route. This transitioned into 35' Phantoms, then 40' Phantoms/D40LFs, then D60s/DE60LFs, now XDE60s are on the route and SDOT is shelling out money for a Denny bus lane. Which tells you how important the 8 has become. In the 1988 map to which Roamer linked, it said that the 50 had 60 minute service on weekdays between 35th Ave SW/Avalon, and 36th/Oregon. There was also no 135 route listed. When was the 50 extended down Ambaum, and when did was the 135 introduced? (Disclaimer: Political comments below; I'll keep them brief) Thanks for jogging my memory about I-695. It's hard to believe that Seattle's economy was in its death throes only 20 years ago (and again in the 1970s). Though, I wish the region had planned for its future by supporting a state income tax and investing in transit, despite the political climate at the time. Maybe with that "Blue Midterm 2018" movement that's been gaining steam, the state Dems can flip seats in the leg (hopefully Tim Sheldon loses his primary race) and try to Trump-proof the state's economy with a state income tax (now that SCOTUS has declared the city's income tax unconstitutional). On the other hand, who would have expected 10-15 years ago that salaries and rents would skyrocket in Seattle of all places, along with gas being $3.10/gallon? Hindsight is 20/20
  25. Which 75/330 trips started at Lake City/130th? When did the short-turn trips on the 75 (to 125th/28th) get discontinued? Furthermore, did the additional Lake City-UW 75 trips (symbol "D" in the old timetables), plus the school shuttles to Nathan Hale (timetable symbol "C") start/end at Lake City/125th, Lake City/130th, 125th/28th, or somewhere else?
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